Ooh, this is dangerous, but I am going to say it. I agree with Bill Clinton. There are millions of women with NOTHING. No abortion coverage, no flu shots, no cancer treatments, no prenatal care, nothing. I can easily say I won't except anything less than total coverage, but I already have insurance, and frankly I don't have anything to lose. There are lots of women and children with a lot to gain, even if it isn't perfect. I say something for them is a hell of a lot better than continuing with the healthcare abyss they are living in right now.
There. Now I will accept the whipping that follows. #healthnuts
If universal health care means eliminating my access to choice through my private insurance plan, then consarn it, I don't want it. I am prepared to use as much frontier gibberish as it takes to express my outrage. What the sam hill? #healthnuts
@morninggloria: Dadgum tootin. I'd rather have nothing than something with this Stupid-Farts amendment. It's slap-your-grandma bad.
Although if the Senate will also stop covering Viagra, then I might consider it. I mean, did these menfolk ever consider that maybe God gave them a limp penis to control population? So says my religion, and if it's my religion then it must also be the official religion of America or else I'm going to sit here and bitch about how we're all going to hell in a handbasket.
@morninggloria: Sorry to get all serious on your frontier-gibberish, but you have private health insurance. When you say you'd rather have access to choice through your private insurance than universal health care, you're basically saying that you'd rather have your plan cover abortions than for me to have any health insurance at all. I hate the Stupak amendment, but from my perspective anyone currently with insurance is sitting pretty. I'd much rather everyone, including me, get basic care than ensure that some lucky people with insurance get another procedure paid for. I get nothing paid for, and I'm not a healthy person. #healthnuts
@archipelagic: (I was mostly being sarcastic, hence the inclusion of frontier gibberish. It's my preferred medium of expressing faux-outrage. Faux-trage?
Of course I'd prefer for everyone to have health care.) #healthnuts
@morninggloria: Ah, that's what I thought at first, but it was a little hard to tell with the replies and all. Sorry, I guess I'm sensitive! #healthnuts
I'm so glad, at the very least, that it seems people aren't letting this travesty go unnoticed and condoning hypocrisy and unlawfulness by ignoring it.
I hope they stop playing nice real soon. The Dems need to stop rolling around in the mud with these happy pigs...Get yer galoshes on and solve this problem! #healthnuts
Wow Bill. Way to eat away at the reserve of good will I was slowly building back up for you after you sprung those two journalists from North Korea. #healthnuts
Here in DC, we're hearing we'll be lucky if the Senate bill clears before Christmas. If it doesn't, Reid is threatening to make them come back the Monday after Christmas weekend instead of recessing.
Then the plan is to bring it to conference right after New Year's, and then have it to the president to sign just in time for State of the Union at the end of January. #healthnuts
@formergr: Having moved here (DC) in the last two years, you could not have told me that this city was as political is it is. I know intellectually I should have known, but this city is paralyzed by networking, favors, "Hatfields and McCoys". I work for the VA and I have coworkers who would stab in the neck for a pencil. All that to say, it does not surprise me that they sold women out to try to get this legislation passed. I'm pragmatic enough to know that. However, I truly hope that you are right that the Dems are able to pull this off by State of the Union; if only to piss of Republicans. #healthnuts
@formergr: If it takes another month for political pressure to nix this amendment, that would be okay with me. I mean the public option was DOA in September, but with a little perseverance the Dems revived it. And hell, even the teabagger temper tantrums that want to blow the entire reform out of the water have lost market share in the public sphere since August.
@nicnack74: I work directly in politics, so all that stuff is kind of what I live for :) But it's a shame that it extends to the VA, too, which seems to do such good work from what I hear, and I would have hoped was more neutral...
And yeah, I've definitely become familiar with co-workers who will do anything to get ahead. Took some getting used to, but I've developed a few strategies to get around them without stooping to their level, so it's not terrible. #healthnuts
To be fair to the President, I don't recall him ever claiming to be a "champion of women's right to choose" His followers did, over and over when they were berating me for ostensibly voting with my vagina, and I guess they convinced themselves of it. Bob Casey was a big supporter of his, along with other prominent anti choicers, remember?
It keeps being said that he's compromising on his beliefs with the anti choice crowd. Even if we could know what he believes for sure, what would it matter? Principled is as pricipled does. The end result will be the same. #healthnuts
So let me make sure I'm getting this. Any people who receive federal aid to use toward their medical insurance can't be on a plan that covers abortion in any way? So like... men, elderly women, infant girls..... THIS IS OVERKILL YOU HYPER-VIGILANT WOMAN HATERS. This is so much mania on the chance that a woman might in her time on the insurance elect to have an abortion. Is this really what these legislators are so fixated on?
In fairness, I can understand keeping people's tax money separate from what remains (to my disgust) such a controversial procedure. After all, I wouldn't want my tax money to support something I don't believe in .... oh wait. #healthnuts
So it's things like this that make me feel confused and Canadian. I understand crazy right-wingers endorsing things like the Hyde Amendment. Obama? Well, it breaks my heart that apparently being a calm, even-minded centrist here still means you gotta pay lip service to "we are not in some way sneaking in funding for abortions." Women are sneaky and immoral. Got it, dude. #healthnuts
You know, I can see why everyone's upset about this, but honestly, it's not like one woman will be getting an abortion every year. It's a one-time cost, on average. You know what else are costs that are not covered under the government insurance plans? "Experimental treatment", which screws over people with cancer and autism and many other diseases and disorders. Fertility issues are not covered. These costs can run into thousands upon thousands of dollars. Homeopathic remedies, such as acupuncture, are not covered. Many people believe that acupuncture is the only way they can get relief from serious pain, and there are many studies that show it does help.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. If this bill manages to pass through the Senate, we're then going to have a panel of "judges" to decide which health issues are not covered. So the fact that everyone is all up in arms over this particular problem, and ignores others, has me somewhat confused. #healthnuts
@deeemer: I think it is different because abortion is not being left out for cost-benefit or other rational reasons as the other examples you mention but for bald political ones. No one is engaged in a campaign to keep cancer patients from experimental treatments that they need (except maybe that patient's insurance company) the way that they are to keep women from abortions. And because it affects only women, it is sex-discriminatory. #healthnuts
@deeemer: One difference is that this will be taking something away from people that they already have. If the exchange becomes the only cost effective way to purchase individual insurance, and for some employees of small businesses the source for their employer funded health care, then people who could get affordable coverage including abortion today won't be able to after reform is implemented.
Another difference, is that the government is making this decision for private plans. There will be minimum coverage requirements for private plans to participate in the exchange, but the plans won't be prevented from covering any service but abortion. #healthnuts
@deeemer: No, that's really misleading to say there will be a panel of "judges" to decide what health issues are not covered. Not how it's going to work...
@formergr: So tell me how it's going to work. Because at some point, the government is going to decide what is and isn't covered. Who's going to decide it? #healthnuts
@J.D.Regent: I hear what you're saying about the sex-discrimination thing, but there's also the part in the bill where special needs individuals are going to be restricted from accessing the plan. (As in, how many will be allowed into the system). So. . that's not discriminatory? And it seems a hell of a lot more expensive than a one-time fee of $350. (Which planned parenthood will allow you to pay over time) #healthnuts
@deeemer: I don't know about the provision you are talking about but it, too seems abhorrent the way you describe it (not sure what you mean by special needs, are people with disabilities not already eligible for medicaid?), though I still think in a different way and for different reasons than the Stupak amendment. #healthnuts
@deeemer: The same way it was decided for Medicare, and the same way private insurers (and the employers who contract with them) decide it.
They hire actuaries, they make cost projections, etc and then have to decide what is cost-effective and results in the best outcomes.
What the Senate bill *does* have is a provision to strengthen the effectiveness of MedPAC, the Medicare Payment Advisory Council. Currently the group (which is made up of mostly academics in medicine) makes recommendations to Congress on policy for Medicare, but has no authority to implement them or even set up pilot programs to test out its ideas.
To date, MedPAC's recommendations have been largely widely embraced, and have not been extreme, and doesn't involve anything remotely resembling "rationing" or any other extremist accusations like that.
And could you specify what provision of the bill prevents those with special needs from accessing the public option? I'd like to check the language on it in the printed out copy of the bill that's sitting on my desk right now in two large binders.
I do, though, agree that it probably isn't all that cost-effective to have plans on the exchange offer a version with abortion coverage and without, and for anyone to offer an "abortion rider". Because no one ever really plans on needing an abortion, and if circumstances lead to the need for one, very few women have more than 2 or 3 over a lifetime (of fertility), which let's say it cost $50/year extra, the break even would be at 7 years to just pay for it out of pocket if someone has the resources to do so...
You cannot find common ground with people who vehemently oppose to whatever you're doing such that they will not let people receive basic health care because the legislation may contain something that lets women have abortions. Negotiations are done Obama, grow a pair. #healthnuts
11/11/09
Keep your religion out of my government. When you can stop priests from diddling kids, we can talk again. #healthnuts
11/11/09
There. Now I will accept the whipping that follows. #healthnuts
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
Although if the Senate will also stop covering Viagra, then I might consider it. I mean, did these menfolk ever consider that maybe God gave them a limp penis to control population? So says my religion, and if it's my religion then it must also be the official religion of America or else I'm going to sit here and bitch about how we're all going to hell in a handbasket.
11/11/09
11/11/09
Of course I'd prefer for everyone to have health care.) #healthnuts
12:58 AM
11/11/09
11/11/09
I'm so glad, at the very least, that it seems people aren't letting this travesty go unnoticed and condoning hypocrisy and unlawfulness by ignoring it.
I hope they stop playing nice real soon. The Dems need to stop rolling around in the mud with these happy pigs...Get yer galoshes on and solve this problem! #healthnuts
11/11/09
11/11/09
Then the plan is to bring it to conference right after New Year's, and then have it to the president to sign just in time for State of the Union at the end of January. #healthnuts
11/11/09
11/11/09
11/11/09
And yeah, I've definitely become familiar with co-workers who will do anything to get ahead. Took some getting used to, but I've developed a few strategies to get around them without stooping to their level, so it's not terrible. #healthnuts
11/10/09
It keeps being said that he's compromising on his beliefs with the anti choice crowd. Even if we could know what he believes for sure, what would it matter? Principled is as pricipled does. The end result will be the same. #healthnuts
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
In fairness, I can understand keeping people's tax money separate from what remains (to my disgust) such a controversial procedure. After all, I wouldn't want my tax money to support something I don't believe in .... oh wait. #healthnuts
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
And this is just the tip of the iceberg. If this bill manages to pass through the Senate, we're then going to have a panel of "judges" to decide which health issues are not covered. So the fact that everyone is all up in arms over this particular problem, and ignores others, has me somewhat confused. #healthnuts
11/10/09
11/10/09
Another difference, is that the government is making this decision for private plans. There will be minimum coverage requirements for private plans to participate in the exchange, but the plans won't be prevented from covering any service but abortion. #healthnuts
11/10/09
11/10/09
11/10/09
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11/10/09
They hire actuaries, they make cost projections, etc and then have to decide what is cost-effective and results in the best outcomes.
What the Senate bill *does* have is a provision to strengthen the effectiveness of MedPAC, the Medicare Payment Advisory Council. Currently the group (which is made up of mostly academics in medicine) makes recommendations to Congress on policy for Medicare, but has no authority to implement them or even set up pilot programs to test out its ideas.
To date, MedPAC's recommendations have been largely widely embraced, and have not been extreme, and doesn't involve anything remotely resembling "rationing" or any other extremist accusations like that.
And could you specify what provision of the bill prevents those with special needs from accessing the public option? I'd like to check the language on it in the printed out copy of the bill that's sitting on my desk right now in two large binders.
I do, though, agree that it probably isn't all that cost-effective to have plans on the exchange offer a version with abortion coverage and without, and for anyone to offer an "abortion rider". Because no one ever really plans on needing an abortion, and if circumstances lead to the need for one, very few women have more than 2 or 3 over a lifetime (of fertility), which let's say it cost $50/year extra, the break even would be at 7 years to just pay for it out of pocket if someone has the resources to do so...
11/10/09
11/10/09
And, thanks Obama, for making the PUMAs sound rational (what?!) when they argue that men can't "really" be the feminists' choice. :( #healthnuts