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British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
70s Feminist: "The Most Liberated Woman Is The Singleton"

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MilointheMeadow
05/19/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
"Of course, some women can do it - some women can have it all. But they are a tiny, tiny minority."

If you consider Scandinavia a tiny majority.
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youareasleep
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
What these people who romantisize the "traditional" roles never address is how absolutely SCREWED you can be if you do the stay-at-home thing for a long period of time. You better have a career plan in there somewhere, and you better be doing something to keep your toe in the employment waters, because SAHM won't get you anywhere on a resume. It's absolutely ridiculous to depend on a man in such a way that you expect him to do it for the rest of YOUR life. What if he leaves you? What if he dies? What if you are suddenly left with ZERO marketable skills? The world has changed and you just can't expect to be housewife forever, no matter how much your husband loves you.
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clevernamehere
05/18/09

@youareasleep: In the last three generations of my family there has been a woman who lost her husband while her children were under 18. The only one who wasn't screwed was the one who had skills and had kept herself employable.

The world really hasn't changed that much, there have always been women who had to feed themselves and their children without a man. It isn't doubting your marriage will last to have a Plan B.
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Shamrockette
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
My mom's a single mother and she is always trying to push law school or grad school on me. She says that if I go, I'll get a job. Yeah, okay Mom.

But I know she only does it so I can make a lot of money so I can take care of her when she retires. Unfortunately for her, I'm not going to law/grad school unless *I* want to go and I'm not going to fund her entire retirement, but I'll help her out if she needs it.

This relates to the topic because my mom had the chance to go to law school in the 70's, but didn't because she wanted to be 'desirable' to the men and she didn't have what it took to get a law degree as a woman at that time. And she's trying to force her only daughter into doing things she never got to do. But no matter what, if you're a working mother or a stay-at-home one, you can't have career and relationship expectations for your kids.

(I'm hoping this makes sense...)
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HillGirl
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Okay, but what about the mothers who have to work? My mom had to take on three jobs while she was raising my sister and me. Otherwise, we would have ended up homeless after my dad left. It isn't always about choice but survival.
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beastybeatsy
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Well given that both my parents work, have worked, and have both at one time or the other single handedly supported the family. I call bollocks.

Also my dad's always said that I have to make sure that if I ever have to walk out of a situation (a relationship, a marriage, my home) that I can leave on monday and feed myself by friday. It's the 21st century, I'm independent and they don't want me to have to depend on a man.

Also The Times is bascially the Daily Fail for the rich. So I'm not totally surprised by the story to be honest.
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emilyanne
05/18/09

@beastybeatsy: yay it is thank you. Or rather Murdoch's Mail as I think of it.
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ellaesther
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
India Knight: Tell it to the women who work outside the home so that their children can eat.

Mother$#%@*!!fucker!

I hate stupid, blinkered, unthinking, reductive, lazy, stupid shit so fucking much...!
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Wit is periodically disensouled
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
I make it a point to frequently thank my mother for working her ass off when my siblings and I were children and for continuing to do so to this day. She's been a great role model for being true to herself and I try my best to counter the yammering guiltmongers that tell her otherwise.
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leesie
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
What a load of BS! So. Sick. Of. This. Discussion.

And by the way, I resent the implication that only work outside the home is "work." I am a stay-at-home parent, and I work my ass off, thank you very much India Knight.
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Flackette Goes Retro
05/18/09

@leesie: This is why I try to use the terms "work outside the home" and "work inside the home." My mom was at-home for several years, and she definitely was working.
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Flackette Goes Retro
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
But you guys, if it's something the baby boomers remember as an ideal of their childhood, it MUST have universal truth, right?
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EkaterinaBallerina
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
This is total bullshit. My mother's told me since I was old enough to understand to find my way in the world on my own terms doing what I want and love. She has told me repeatedly that no matter what I do in life, to always make sure I have something that is completely my own and that I love (hers happens to be all the theater work she does and has done since she was in high school.)

Not to mention that even my father has said on more than one occasion that he loves that I don't need a man to justify my existence.
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greengrey
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Wow. This sounds exactly like my mom. She's claims that she doesn't regret working. But it seems like she does because all she'll drill into my head is that I should only date guys who are well off (or have "potential", god I hate that word).

The first thing she asks when I talk about a guy is "does he have potential?!"
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Flackette Goes Retro
05/18/09

@greengrey: I think this may be generational. My mom went to college in the 70s when people were all rah-rah for equal rights (and rightly so). But she still grew up with the mindset that women were going to make less money, so men should be able to be providers.
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Liz11685
05/18/09

@greengrey: This is my mom too. She identifies as feminist, but she also has always told me that she wished she had been a stay at home mom. That is what she wants for me. I think part of it is that my mom out-earns my dad now. (and when he was in law school) Parents want the lives of their children to be easier than theirs.
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Bgirl_Hamster
05/18/09

@greengrey: @Flackette Goes Retro: Thank you for this. My amazing mom always said that she would have preferred to stay home with me and my brother if we could have afforded it. She also went to college during the 70's and outearned my father at a few points. But you know what, when they divorced, her NOT staying at home and continuing to work throughout the 25 year marriage saved her butt. I shudder to think how she would have managed if she didn't have a career left to build on. "Don't do this to yourself" can apply to the stay-at-home mom equally as well as the working mom.
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save jinger
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Why can't people just choose what makes them happy? No one can "have it all." Instead of "it all," let's strive toward contentment. If this involves being a working mon, fine; if it doesn't, fine.
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fireflyinjuly
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Ugh - this is an issue that only the well-to-do get to contend with. The majority of the world's women HAVE TO WORK both in the home and in the workplace.
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Flackette Goes Retro
05/18/09

@fireflyinjuly: Exactly - and it has been that way throughout most of history. Your typical working class woman at any point in history didn't have a choice about whether or not to work inside and outside the home.
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Trulymadlyme
05/18/09

@fireflyinjuly: Yeah. I really find the whole point to be insanely odd. Most people who work outside of the home have engaged in a calculus of sorts wherein they found that the money they made was more necessary than staying home. It might be for a mortgage. It might be for food. Or medicine. Or it might be to pay for Susie's rowing camp or Georgie's trumpet lessons. But damn. Let a woman make her own choices in peace.
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emilyanne
05/18/09

@fireflyinjuly: although it's interesting that child care is so prohibatively expensive in New York that until recently I had to choose to do neither in that I worked around my child whom I also looked after. Because actually otherwise my salary would simply have been going to childcare, that's it, nothing else. So I used to get up at 6 and write until my daughter woke up and then when she slept in the afternoon pitch ideas and write again and then in the evening write again for a couple of hours. Admittedly I'm lucky that being a journalist gave me flexibility but on the other hand being a journalist did not enable me to pay for child care.
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wordinedgewise
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Let's just save everyone the trouble of reading any of these types of "woe is (type of woman here)" articles ever again:

No matter what lifestyle you choose or end up with, you will be unhappy and jealous of people who have different lives.

You're welcome!
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Flackette Goes Retro
05/18/09

In reply to British Documentary Says Working Moms "Don't Understand What They've Lost"
Who started the rumor that "working mothers" are a new thing? My grandmother had her first child in 1951, and worked all through having 3 kids over the next twelve years. In fact, she still works in her late 70s (part-time, to supplement her retirement).
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Princess Leela
05/18/09

@Flackette Goes Retro: I know, right? Both my grandmas were the same. I'm wondering exactly what fantasy world these people sounding off in the pages of British newspapers grew up in. 'Cause the '50s were actually a really rough time over there. The economy was still recovering from the war, and I'm guessing plenty of working-class British women were out there holding down jobs to keep their families afloat.
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