harrietharman - Jezebel

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Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
Harriet Harman Wants English Women To Make More Money

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morninggloria
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
Ok, if we're going to play that game: perhaps it's overall resentment that a lot of men feel when women infringe upon what they perceive as "their" territory that impedes the success of business. The presence of a woman on a corporate board of dinosaur members of the old boys' club threatens their sense of inherent superiority and entitled attitude. Put that in your sexist pipe and smoke it.
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cocktail bun
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
Ok O'Grady, since correlation now equals causation, how about we run a little regression on the relationship between Businesses That Have Fucked Up the US Economy and Businesses That Are Run By White Men...
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J.D.Regent
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
God it is hard to ignore trolls sometimes.
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morninggloria
08/06/09

@J.D.Regent: I know. I started typing a response, and deleted. It wouldn't have made his comment show up, but it would have given him validation. RESIST THE URGE, LADIES. RESIST!
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wtfox?!
08/06/09

@morninggloria: I came SO CLOSE, Glo. But I resisted the urge!
Now I'm going to go eat a cupcake, because my self-control is shot for the day.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@wtfox?!: Hope you didn't exercise today, because according to Time Magazine are then legally obligated to scarf 1,876 cupcakes.
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NefariousNewt
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
Companies should be less profitable, when profit is made at the expense of quality, service, or in the case of health care, lives.
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J.D.Regent
08/06/09

@NefariousNewt: why, that's positively unamerican!
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wtfox?!
08/06/09

@NefariousNewt: Communist! Atheist! Terrorist! I bet you even believe in evolution.
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morninggloria
08/06/09

@NefariousNewt: Unfortunately, capitalism is a mild Ponzi scheme dependant on constant growth.
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NefariousNewt
08/06/09

@morninggloria: True, but in that case, to make gargantuan profits eventually exhausts the supply of available capital and makes it hard to find new sucke... investors.
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SomeAuthorGirl
08/06/09

@NefariousNewt: Female executive here to virtually hug you. It is important to note the lens through which these studies look at profitability.
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dj_chick
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
My dad told me when I was younger that men are supposed to be the boss because people don't want to deal with a woman who is in charge. And this wasn't a "you can do anything you want!" sort of motivational speech. This was his way of telling me where I belonged, which is apparently not in a big corner office with a view.
Epic parenting fail on his part, and a shame to know so many share his small minded view.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
From now on all these insidious little seeds of woman-hate will remind me of the gym massacre of those three poor women.
Articles like this are all like little drops of water, irritating at first, but when pooled together a monsoon of epic proportions.
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CurtCole
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
I'm convinced that more women are on the boards of failing companies because they brought them in to fix all of the fuck-ups that their male counterparts generated.
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Dodgergirl
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
Ugh, girls are icky. O'Grady is a FOUNDING MEMBER of the He-Man Woman Haters Club, and he and Alfalfa have a meeting to run now. They have no time for this "causation v. correlation" stuff. That sounds like stupid girl cooties or something.
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Highsmith
08/06/09

In reply to Dude Thinks Women Are Holding Down Companies' Profits
"demands of smart man who's the CEO" ... whaddya mean, "smart man". I think most CEOs are anything but.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@Highsmith: Why?
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Highsmith
08/06/09

@BearDownCBears:
I speak from personal experience. Also, recent developments don't overwhelmingly speak for signs of intelligent CEO life.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@Highsmith: I'll give you personal experience, but a lot of those guys made a shit-ton of cash at the end of the day riding bubbles that made sense in the short term for their own bank accounts. I could see calling them selfish, but to rise through the ranks to manage billions of dollars and oversee the operations of massive coporate entities does not scream "stupid". I think "stupid" is thrown around because particular companies made bad or short-sighted choices that eventually undermined the sustainability if their business models, and so by association people assume the CEO's are "dumb guys". As in, low IQ, poor cognitive skills. That strikes me as shallow analysis.
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J.D.Regent
08/06/09

@BearDownCBears: I think it's more an attempt to say that whatever kind of "intelligence" we are rewarding by making men who make the kinds of decisions you describe the richest people on earth, needs to not be rewarded so much. We need to call other kinds of behavior and thinking intelligent and valuable. And also is a kind of understandable anger at people who have been rewarded so grossly for activity which has harmed so many (see Paul Krugman's latest for a smarter way of saying this).
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Highsmith
08/06/09

@BearDownCBears: If they are so "intelligent", how come they didn't see the meltdown coming? A CEO has to be able to correctly estimate, calculate & anticipate risks (both short & long term) in order to effectively manage a company. A lot of the "shit-ton" cash was made by disproportionally increasing CEO's salaries, benefits & perks at the expense of the average worker's salary & the overall financial wellbeing of the companies. A lot of the "shit-ton" cash was made through criminal fraud (see Madoff, other loan & savings scandals, stock option backdating cases, etc., the list is endless). Where did the "shit-ton" cash go? It turned into negative "shit-ton" cash.
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morninggloria
08/06/09

@BearDownCBears: I'm with you here. You don't rise to the top of a gigantic corporation by being a drooling moron, unless you are Kathy Geiss (and if you do rise to the top of a company as a drooling moron, and continue to do droolingly moronic things that result in the company flailing, the board will throw you out so fast that you'll struggle to remember a time when your ass was not touching the pavement outside of corporate headquarters). In order to be a CEO, you have to work the shit out of the system. And, usually, have a penis.
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Megan
08/06/09

@Highsmith: I was being sarcastic.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@Highsmith: You are confusing intelligence with morality. If the incentives in an industry are set up such that short term gain is rewarded by tying salaries to stock price and providing a ton of options and bonuses as compensation, you will attract such people (and not just men) who will be able to make the company perform very well in the short run. Doing this is very complex, and not something an "idiot" can do.
Another problem: too many people think the only CEOs in the world are at investment banks and mortgage lenders. You know who else has CEOs? Kellogg. Mattel. Coca-Cola. Apple. Timberland. Rio Tinto. Vodaphone. Etc.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@morninggloria: This topic, though, reminds me of an Atlantic article last month entitled "Do CEO's Matter?" While not debating their intelligence, it pondered whether they make or break companies. You might find it interesting if you didn't already see it.
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Edited by BearDownCBears at 08/06/09 3:12 PM BearDownCBears was starred BearDownCBears was unstarred

Highsmith
08/06/09

@BearDownCBears: Actually, I'm not confusing the both. There is, however, a connection between both in as such a lack of morality or business ethics, if you will, has brought immense financial loss to companies, the stock market & share holders, which suggests to me a lack of intelligence in business strategy & planning. Intelligence as a business leader also means applying ethics appropriately within the frame work of a business setting.
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BearDownCBears
08/06/09

@Highsmith: Then that's the board's problem, and the regulator's problem, and Congress' problem, but if the CEO followed the job description and completed a very difficult task (running a huge company) while making a mint for him/herself, how is this an indicator that he/she is "dumb"? There has been an ongoing debate about executive comp regarding this issue since the beginning of the meltdown. Perverse incentives reward perverse behavior.
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Edited by BearDownCBears at 08/06/09 3:59 PM BearDownCBears was starred BearDownCBears was unstarred

HillGirl
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
Wouldn't they want to pay women what they deserve, so that they have more disposable income to spend??? Thus allowing them to purchase more goods and to stimulate sales.
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Plum-Pie
03/16/09

@HillGirl: Now don't do anything dangerous and emotional like bring logic into this!
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LottieLocks has a degree in procrastination
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
Part of their reasoning was that the poor companies get sued by people if they carry out mandatory audits by the people they discriminated against.

Their logic fails, if it's a recession it's even more important to make sure everyone's getting paid what they earnt. I know plenty of families where the women is the primary or indeed only breadwinner and can do with all the money they can get. My own family included.

Plus we have plenty of people to stand up for the interets of the business's, they have the power and influence to get their voices and interests heard. The commission is supposed to be standing up for the disadvantaged and those who lack a political voice and representation.

Gah I've been so angry about this all day it's been hard to do anything. If any Jezzie's want to take action you can email the commission at info@equalityhumanrights.com to let them know your displeasure.
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J.D.Regent
03/16/09

@LottieLocks has a degree in procrastination: right. don't discriminate, don't get sued. saves everyone money!
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brinkswomanship
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
"We must not get caught in this trap of saying in difficult times we will trade in women's rights."

Sing it, sister!! Companies are just latching onto the 'economic crisis' excuse to drag their heels. If it wasn't that, it would be something else. IT IS NO EXCUSE.
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strangebeastie
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
Well, there's a guideline from the EU coming up about it, so they'll probably have to do more anyway.
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rah29
03/16/09

@strangebeastie: The Commission have launched a campaign but there aren't any new directives coming up, I don't think... Unless I'm wrong, I've fallen behind on the EU legislative agenda now that I'm not taking exams in it anymore!
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morninggloria
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
I guess I'm going to have to continue making up for the wage gap by wearing low cut tops to bars and expecting men to buy all of my drinks.
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SylvanSylph
03/16/09

@morninggloria: Can that system be worked enough to get free drinks for your man too?
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SylvanSylph
03/16/09

@SylvanSylph: Or food? As in, "I don't really need a drink right now, but I would love a bacon cheeseburger and a side of fries, thanks."
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Plum-Pie
03/16/09

In reply to UK Wage Gap Legislation May Be Watered Down
Their argument is that in a recession women shouldn't get more money because why?

We're going to paper our walls with it instead of spending it on food and accommodation?
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J.D.Regent
03/16/09

@Plum-Pie: I know! I guess the recession is something that only happens to men.
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cuteasabutton
03/16/09

@Plum-Pie: Because teh wimminz don't know how to handle their money! They spend it all on shoes and unicorn fairy dust!
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Shamrockette
03/16/09

@cuteasabutton's life is a series of sassy montages.: Teh wimminz spend it all on Botox and boob jobs!
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Plum-Pie
03/16/09

@Plum-Pie:More fuel for today's caterwaul:

"the narrowing of the gender employment gap combined with the increase in the proportion of lone
mother households means that women's wages are more important than ever to the family economy. The
percentage of families head by a lone mother has tripled over the past thirty years from 7% in 1971 to 22% currently (ONS 2008). Among women in couples, the latest available data shows a woman's income makes
up a third of family income on average and in just over a fifth of couples (21%) women's incomes accounts
for half of family income (Women and Equality Unit 2006). More families will therefore be relying on a woman's wage for their welfare through this recession."

[www.fawcettsociety.org.uk]
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SylvanSylph
03/16/09

@Plum-Pie: Only a third???
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Plum-Pie
03/16/09

@SylvanSylph: That's how badly paid women are...!
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