Why do you portray people who oppose Obama's healthcare plan as mouth-breathing, excitable wackjobs? Perhaps the only outlet for average Americans who can't write a New York Times Op-Ed piece is to angrily protest?
I saw the LO interview last night. I started off nervous for her, but I couldn't feel bad for her because she agrees to be interviewed on national tv when her research and knowledge is based on what Hannity and her preacher tell her to believe. The "goodness of the people" instead of the government is a red-flag that she is evangelical. There is a theory that if we allow the government to take care of us, then we rely on government rather than God, and Jesus is supposed to have our primary allegiance and not the government. If it really was about "goodness of the people," then we'd have single payer because all people are equal, and no one other than a sociopath would allow someone to be sick rather than receive care. Instead, they want you going to church to prove that you're worthy of their charity. It was this hypocrisy that first made me question my faith.
@BuyMoreMakeup: Huh. So if we rely on the "goodness of the people", that's still technically relying on God, but if we rely on a just government, it's not? I guess it has been so long since I believed that I can no longer wrap my mind in the same ways.
@Laulau: It was something that I read in "Quiverfull," so I never actually heard it articulated by believers. I've been out of the church for 5 years, and that passage stuck out for me because it finally tied together the disconnect that I see that allows someone to call themselves Christian but abhor all social welfare programs and hold on to their tax dollars so greedily. I'm not sure how many evangelicals have really thought through it either considering there aren't a whole lot that have thought through their faith and political convictions. The government is a secular institution, unless it's led by W. When Katy made the comment that she never worried about her country until now, she didn't have to because they had a real man of faith in office. No matter how many times Obama says he's a Christian, they aren't going to believe him. It's only in the past year admitted that I don't believe anymore. I live in the middle of the Bible Belt, so very few people know. I've been reading a lot lately about evangelicals and still have "friends" from my old church through FB.
When I was a kid my mother would see how I'd get angry and worked up over a lot of issues around me that bothered me. And she'd see when I'd yell at people angerly about them that nothing got solved. So, she sat me down and told me the best piece of advice I ever got on this matter:
"Calm yourself down or everyone will dismiss you as ignorant and crazy. Do your homework and do your best to get your facts straight so no one can nitpick them and use that against you and whatever you do stay calm and sane."
I certainly disagree with the woman but I'd respect, listen, and not roll my eyes at her if she listened to my mother's advice.
A quick google yielded an amazon.com book review by Katy (I'm fairly certain). In the review, dated 2004, she cites how much her husband makes a year and how much she earned when she was working. This would seem to refute her claim that she doesn't know what her family's income is.
Also, contrary to her statement, "I'm 35 years old and have never been interested in politics!" she sure does have a lot to say in her review of Sean Hannity's book.
@pixie: Based on the amount stated there (~85,000 between her and her husband), she is certainly not poor. that she thinks this is "poor" and "less than your liberal paycheck" says to me that she is really just ignorant of how worse off other people are.
I have no sympathy for these know-nothings. She chose to ask an animated question at a town hall meeting, despite recognizing that she doesn't know anything. I'm sure a lot of people were at the town hall in hopes of educating themselves but instead had to hear her ignorant interpretation of the constitution. Just because we had a know nothing as a Republican Vice-Presidential candidate doesn't mean that we should let every housewife from "God's country" come on our news shows to give their opinions.
The whole entire federalist structure of the Constitution was set up to protect the government from dumbasses like Ms. Abram here. Her beloved founding fathers who hated the auto industry (??!!) would likely have considered her part of the mob rule that a representative democracy is supposed to guard against.
You know I think this was a great and very generous article. I however am not so generous to Katy. Ok I agree she's not evil but um she is IGNORANT and on some level knows it so why not just STFU until you learn more about what you're talking about. Why not start with how much you're paying per month for health insurance and how FUCKED you'd be in you lost your job and had to buy private insurance or lost your drug plan. Then maybe take a trip to places with socialized health care like the UK or Canada and see how high the quality of care is and that people are not waiting 2 hours in line for bread. Then maybe READ the constitution and the history of the new deal and how many things not in the constitution as it was written you take for granted (like your right to vote) then get back to me.
@Alohamaid: THANK you! I'll give her SOME credit for realizing she doesn't know what she's talking about but Katy hon, at that point the PATRIOTIC thing to do is GET YERSELF SOME BOOK LEARNIN' and fix that, so then you WILL know what you're talking about.
I want to show up to one of these town meetings with signs that read the following:
"The laws of humanity make it a duty for nations, as well as individuals, to succor those whom accident and distress have thrown upon them." --Thomas Jefferson
The basis of our political system is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. --George Washington
There must be a positive passion for the public good, the public interest, honour, power and glory, established in the minds of the people, or there can be no republican government, nor any real liberty: and this public passion must be superior to all private passions. --John Adams
@dirtybee: Beautiful. I hate this whole "not what the Founders intended" bs, because it's disingenuous and fatuous. They intentionally left an open framework for the very reason that they could not predict every future possibility or scenario, and pretending otherwise is either subverting this fact to one's own gain or just ignorance, to be exploited by those who wish to take advantage of said ignorance.
@dirtybee: Oh, I wish I had thought of that. I live in Lebanon County and my mom wanted me to go to this, but I was too worried I'd meet people like Katy and I'd lash out verbally (or even physically- I'm getting pretty irate myself) at them. Those signs would have been perfect!
To me, it's just another example of how we celebrate mediocrity in this country these days. (and btw, that wasn't an ideal the founding fathers espoused either.) We celebrate a broken health care system and we celebrate "regular people" who promote it. Meanwhile, the word "elite" has become derogatory, as if being intelligent and educated and knowing what you're talking about is actually a bad thing.
This is a vicious cultural cycle, and until it's broken, nothing's going to get done. I actually think it's taught from school age now. When I was a kid (which was not that long ago!), you played sports in gym class and you either won or lost. You were either good at playing or you were bad at it. Nowadays, everyone's a winner! Every action every kid does gets celebrated, no matter how clumsy or dumb they are. (Oh, and nobody's dumb anymore either, they just have either ADD or autism.)
Ah, I miss those days when the strong would pelt the weak with dodgeballs until none were left standing.
No, seriously, in life there are winners and losers. When you start thinking of everybody as the same, then you start pandering to the lowest common denominator, and anybody who is obviously above that level becomes an arrogant outsider. We need to start celebrating people that are smarter than us again, and we need to put those people in charge of taking care of us. That's the whole *point* of a representative democracy, which is what the Constitution is all about.
I always get the most shocked expression for saying this, but WHY THE FUCK DO WE CARE WHAT SLAVE OWNERS WOULD THINK ABOUT FREEDOM?
They owned humans. Their definition of "freedom" and a modern one do not coincide, and it's all well and good to point to the Constitution, but the damn thing was written hundreds of years ago, and it simply does not cover modern issues, the population we have now, the technology, etc. It is a nice document in theory. Now let's move on and deal with things in fact.
Does she not realize that, as a woman, the founders of this country never intended for her to even have political opinions...not too mention most were not huge fans of "popular" democracy?
@JenFizz: The good news for her, then, is that she barely has anything that constitutes a political opinion. She doesn't really know how the system works, she's not quite sure what she thinks about, but she just knows that change is scary!!
I beg to differ in your opinion that she's not stupid.
Most of these protesters know nothing about the facts of health care reforms. I am willing to bet that at the core of these protests it's not about a fundamental opposition to socialized medicine, it's about the fact that the majority of this country voted for a progressive president and Congress and their status quo is crumbling. Be it healthcare reform or banking regulations, they will grab onto any hot button issue and escalate it to a circus atmosphere just to make a point. These crazies are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, no logic, no reason, with the only true motivation behind them being stubbornness, immaturity and stupidity.
Although health care didn't exist in the 18th century, I can't imagine Washington would be so opposed to some federal regulations, considering he was a supporter of the Federalists.
Anyway all the "founding fathers blah blah freedom" tactics are just a way of obfuscating what they really mean: "I don't want people to have health care when they need it because I'm selfish".
08/15/09
And laughing.
08/13/09
08/14/09
[well that would be MY answer to that question.]
08/13/09
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"Calm yourself down or everyone will dismiss you as ignorant and crazy. Do your homework and do your best to get your facts straight so no one can nitpick them and use that against you and whatever you do stay calm and sane."
I certainly disagree with the woman but I'd respect, listen, and not roll my eyes at her if she listened to my mother's advice.
08/13/09
Also, contrary to her statement, "I'm 35 years old and have never been interested in politics!" she sure does have a lot to say in her review of Sean Hannity's book.
Have a look:
[www.amazon.com]
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08/13/09
"The laws of humanity make it a duty for nations, as well as individuals, to succor those whom accident and distress have thrown upon them." --Thomas Jefferson
The basis of our political system is the right of the people to make and to alter their constitutions of government. --George Washington
There must be a positive passion for the public good, the public interest, honour, power and glory, established in the minds of the people, or there can be no republican government, nor any real liberty: and this public passion must be superior to all private passions. --John Adams
08/13/09
08/13/09
08/14/09
08/13/09
This is a vicious cultural cycle, and until it's broken, nothing's going to get done. I actually think it's taught from school age now. When I was a kid (which was not that long ago!), you played sports in gym class and you either won or lost. You were either good at playing or you were bad at it. Nowadays, everyone's a winner! Every action every kid does gets celebrated, no matter how clumsy or dumb they are. (Oh, and nobody's dumb anymore either, they just have either ADD or autism.)
Ah, I miss those days when the strong would pelt the weak with dodgeballs until none were left standing.
No, seriously, in life there are winners and losers. When you start thinking of everybody as the same, then you start pandering to the lowest common denominator, and anybody who is obviously above that level becomes an arrogant outsider. We need to start celebrating people that are smarter than us again, and we need to put those people in charge of taking care of us. That's the whole *point* of a representative democracy, which is what the Constitution is all about.
08/13/09
They owned humans. Their definition of "freedom" and a modern one do not coincide, and it's all well and good to point to the Constitution, but the damn thing was written hundreds of years ago, and it simply does not cover modern issues, the population we have now, the technology, etc. It is a nice document in theory. Now let's move on and deal with things in fact.
08/14/09
08/13/09
Ah, if I lived in the US.
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Most of these protesters know nothing about the facts of health care reforms. I am willing to bet that at the core of these protests it's not about a fundamental opposition to socialized medicine, it's about the fact that the majority of this country voted for a progressive president and Congress and their status quo is crumbling. Be it healthcare reform or banking regulations, they will grab onto any hot button issue and escalate it to a circus atmosphere just to make a point. These crazies are simply arguing for the sake of arguing, no logic, no reason, with the only true motivation behind them being stubbornness, immaturity and stupidity.
08/13/09
Anyway all the "founding fathers blah blah freedom" tactics are just a way of obfuscating what they really mean: "I don't want people to have health care when they need it because I'm selfish".