1. These are cases that would be covered in civil court, therefore the parties can agree by contract to arbitrate instead of using the judicial system.
2. There's no criminal aspect that can be prosecuted by the US courts because these actions are taking place in foreign countries so there's no US jurisdiction and no military court jurisdiction (since these are contractors).
@sportz.star: ok, so there's no US jurisdiction and no military court jurisdiction. I hate to ask this question, but is rape not illegal in Iraq? Are Iraqi courts functional at all? Or would that be such a shitshow of failure that its not even worth trying?
@CherriSpryte: Don't know details, but if I had to guess, the political implications of the Iraqi courts bringing actions against American contractors, who are ostensibly there to rebuild their country, are probably a not insignificant part of why there aren't trials in Iraq. Also, depending on the legal system and interpretations of Sharia (sp?) law, there can be very different views on rape than what we may have in the US.
@sportz.star: Most of the difference in arbitration comes down to lack of a jury and lack of an open record - the judges are usually the same people formerly employed by regular courts. The panel judges must approved by both parties prior to initiation of proceedings.
Arbitration can be appealed to a proper court as well, but only for gross procedural errors.
*IANAL - but I asked a litigator friend about this who has very recent experience in arbitration, after decades in court. Also - I am not "pro-arbitration" - just kicking a little info out there.
@CherriSpryte: It's written into the Iraqi constitution that US contractors are not subject to Iraqi law. Which is not surprising, since US contractors probably wrote that constitution.
@somnambulance: So if US contractors are not subject to Iraqi criminal law, and also not subject to US criminal law, does that mean no one can prosecute their employees for crimes?
This is single-handedly the most frustrating/horrible situation ever. The silver lining is that now everyone can see the major flaws of binding arbitration (it's unconstitutional - arbitration is a good idea for petty disputes but not cases like this one). Tracy Barker is truly a hero. To go through something like that and continue fighting no matter how terrible/unjust the situation may be is the definition of heroic.
I have a Senator on the Appropriations Committee...but it's Kay Bailey Hutchison. My blood pressure is spiking just thinking about the form letter I'm going to get in response. You'd think that even the most conservative women would at least recognize when it's time to side with their own, regardless of the incidental costs to corporations. #frankenamendment
@aclikeslater: Reach out to her. If I remember correctly, the nay votes were all men. She might be on the right side of this one, after all. #frankenamendment
Does anyone else think it is misleading to call it an "anti-rape amendment"? If I understand correctly what the amendment is about, it has more to do with requiring defense contractors to write up contracts that allow the employee to press criminal charges in a court of law.
Again, if I understand the issue, the reason this is being passed is because the contract that Jamie Leigh Jones had signed made her agree to not sue the company if she was sexually harassed/assaulted, and instead go through arbitration. I assume if she did go to the courts, that counts as a breach of contract and results in whatever ramifications.
Calling it an anti-rape amendment makes it sound like it actively does something to protect employees from rape, or not hire convicted rapists, or something.
As far as I can tell, what it actually does is prevent employees from being forced to go through arbitration, and instead gives them the option to go to the courts and sue without penalty from the employer. My understanding was that this would have numerous applications, not just in rape cases. #frankenamendment
@nworobes: I think in theory the idea that consequences could be hanging over a company for misbehavior of its employees ought to encourage it to craft prevention strategies. To what extent that would be successful remains to be seen, but I think it could be compared to, say, trucking companies that drug test drivers. The trucking company is on the hook if a drugged up driver kills someone, so they drug test their employees to ensure their drivers aren't using. Likewise, if KBR knew it would face severe consequences, lose contracts, lose money, etc, it might create policies and procedures that DO actively protect employees from being victimized. What those might be, though, I'm not entirely sure. #frankenamendment
time for action, jezzies! you can email him using this form: [inouye.senate.gov] AND you can contact members of the Senate Appropriations Committee (especially if they are your senator) by looking them up here. [appropriations.senate.gov]#frankenamendment
The "Anti-rape" (badly named) amendment would be too much for defense contractors to deal with? How about the women -their employees- they failed to protect? A reminder that you (and the other reps) work for the people of these United States NOT the defense contractors. And women are in the majority of the population. And we have LONG memories. I understand this is an amendment that old conservative men do not like. I do not care. And my name is legion. Lysistrata ring any bells? You and the other men ain't seen nothing yet if this doesn't get through. What happened to a twenty-year old woman who has NO recourse is deeply shameful and untenable. Remind the GOP whiners that they are going to be out of power for a VERY long time. We will see to it. #frankenamendment
I am paraphrasing the ever-eloquent Jon Stewart, but when you are arguing AGAINST the rape victim on behalf of the people who raped her or let it happen, then perhaps you are not on the side of the angels. #frankenamendment
@willwriteforfood: "If, to protect Haliburton, you have to side against rape victims, you might want to rethink your allegiances." - Jon Stewart #frankenamendment
Hey Danny-boy, you're one of the senators from Hawaii, right? You're already on my Shit List for making my job about 3000% harder than it needs to be. Don't make it worse. What the hell is wrong with your head? #frankenamendment
My response to the defense contractors is the same as it is to anyone who complains about being vulnerable to lawsuits: if you don't want to get sued, don't do shit that leaves you vulnerable to successful law suits. Asshats. #frankenamendment
When I was little I wasn't allowed to say I "hate" anything. I was always corrected by a parent. "No, thoughtthinker, you 'Strongly Dislike' x,y, or z."
But no... I hate the people who voted against this. I hate people who believe that profit matters more than humans. I hate them. I used to be above hating people for believing in different things than I do -- but you know what? Some times are just hateful. And I get to hate them.
And guess what mom, I also hate raw onions, my sixth grade teacher, and the jerk who covered my desk in tampons when I was 11. #frankenamendment
So, let me get this straight. The GOP is all over the media being outraged that FAKE PROSTITUTES received tax help from ACORN, but they want to protect any govt. contractor from facing charges for REAL RAPES that occur on their facilities, by their REAL EMPLOYEES.
And a democratic senator is going to aid and abet them by striking a passing amendment to a bill.
My favorite logic fail is people that think it's not okay to interfere with contracts between the defense contractors and their employees. While completely ignoring the fact that the government is contracting with the contractors themselves and has the right to set its own terms. Nobody's forcing these companies to compete for jobs from the government. If they actually felt it would make them too vulnerable, they wouldn't seek the contracts!
All secondary to the human-being-type reactions to the amendment, of course, but still irks me. Freedom of contract: I do not think this concept means what you think it means. #frankenamendment
@yvanehtnioj: don't you stand in the way of KBR/Halliburton being able to enter into ridiculously monetarily rewarding contracts with the government with your logic! I wont have it! #frankenamendment
11/20/09
11/20/09
1. These are cases that would be covered in civil court, therefore the parties can agree by contract to arbitrate instead of using the judicial system.
2. There's no criminal aspect that can be prosecuted by the US courts because these actions are taking place in foreign countries so there's no US jurisdiction and no military court jurisdiction (since these are contractors).
That's how I understand it.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
Arbitration can be appealed to a proper court as well, but only for gross procedural errors.
*IANAL - but I asked a litigator friend about this who has very recent experience in arbitration, after decades in court. Also - I am not "pro-arbitration" - just kicking a little info out there.
11/20/09
11/20/09
11/20/09
Why do these things still suprise me?
11/20/09
10/22/09
10/23/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
Again, if I understand the issue, the reason this is being passed is because the contract that Jamie Leigh Jones had signed made her agree to not sue the company if she was sexually harassed/assaulted, and instead go through arbitration. I assume if she did go to the courts, that counts as a breach of contract and results in whatever ramifications.
Calling it an anti-rape amendment makes it sound like it actively does something to protect employees from rape, or not hire convicted rapists, or something.
As far as I can tell, what it actually does is prevent employees from being forced to go through arbitration, and instead gives them the option to go to the courts and sue without penalty from the employer. My understanding was that this would have numerous applications, not just in rape cases. #frankenamendment
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
The "Anti-rape" (badly named) amendment would be too much for defense contractors to deal with? How about the women -their employees- they failed to protect? A reminder that you (and the other reps) work for the people of these United States NOT the defense contractors. And women are in the majority of the population. And we have LONG memories. I understand this is an amendment that old conservative men do not like. I do not care. And my name is legion. Lysistrata ring any bells? You and the other men ain't seen nothing yet if this doesn't get through. What happened to a twenty-year old woman who has NO recourse is deeply shameful and untenable. Remind the GOP whiners that they are going to be out of power for a VERY long time. We will see to it. #frankenamendment
10/23/09
10/23/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
You wanna come see the inside of my shipping container? #frankenamendment
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
10/22/09
But no... I hate the people who voted against this. I hate people who believe that profit matters more than humans. I hate them. I used to be above hating people for believing in different things than I do -- but you know what? Some times are just hateful. And I get to hate them.
And guess what mom, I also hate raw onions, my sixth grade teacher, and the jerk who covered my desk in tampons when I was 11. #frankenamendment
10/22/09
And a democratic senator is going to aid and abet them by striking a passing amendment to a bill.
Stabby Thursday Indeed. #frankenamendment
10/22/09
All secondary to the human-being-type reactions to the amendment, of course, but still irks me. Freedom of contract: I do not think this concept means what you think it means. #frankenamendment
10/22/09