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Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
And A Crappy Christmas To All, And To All A Good Morning
For Barack Obama, The Party's Never Really Getting Started

Obama Talking, But Still Not Saying Much
Assassination, Impeachment and Prison Sentences
"Maybe That's A Way Of Killing 'Em…"
Staledating: Or, How Dating Can Be Almost As Fun As Getting Waterboarded!
Harold & Kumar Get Bongwaterboarded!

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Jack_Burton
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
I think everyone on the Defense Subcommittees should be pressured to own up to what they knew, and when. This kind of shit doesn't happen in a vacuum, and we elect them to represent us, so it is incumbent upon them to prove they are worthy of making the truly tough decisions that can't be publicly discussed.

These are the people for whom "plausible deniability" shouldn't exist - do they need to be present at interrogations? No. But they need to make clear what will be tolerated and under what circumstance, and own-up if it goes South, not point fingers and use strategic leaks to further their careers.

/GRRRRR!
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Stagtasticfantastic
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
I am so bored with people mocking tax protesters. Pardon me for the fact that the media films the wackiest of the wacky of these folks, but some of us have objections to our money be stolen and used for evil ends like the drug war and the military-industrial complex without having a say in it. Yeah, woo, that wackiness never gets less hilarious.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Stagtasticfantastic: There's a big difference between having a protest about how tax money is spent, and this motley, rag-tag collection of ranters, none of whom know what the central theme of the protest is supposed to be. The media filmed the wackos because these protests were mainly filled with wackos.

I don't like how my money is spent any more than anyone else, but then I have the right to tell my representatives that they need to change that, and if they don't do what I want, I need to vote against their re-election. The problem I had with this whole "tea party" extravaganza was they were protesting something they had the power to control. Unlike the Founders, who had to throw off the yoke of a foreign government which allowed them no representation.
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J.D.Regent
05/15/09

@Stagtasticfantastic: I hope I saw you out protesting your taxes being used against an illegal war in the Bush days too!
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nothanks
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: do you honestly think if you told your representatives or voted them out of office it would make any difference at all? honestly - do you think your representatives have any say in how central banking works? Im not being facetious im genuinely interested

The point of the tea party's before they were hijacked by glen beck and his loony crew is to demonstrate that people know this is bullshit, not to start a revolution
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HarpMadness
05/15/09

@J.D.Regent: That's the point, isn't it? All of this springs up now (these protests -- i know some people have always been upset about taxes) that we are talking about spending some tax money on, you know, average Americans in order to improve health care, work towards sustainable energy, etc. Only now do the majority who take part in these protests have a problem with it. When it was being spent on the war on drugs, on wars in general, handed out to corporations (or just not taken from them) that group didn't care at all.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@nothanks: Our government makes the rules, or I should say, the party in power. Yes, I think my representatives have the capacity and the capability to make laws to control central banking. If they don't, or choose not to, then they need to be replaced. I can only replace those representatives from my state -- wholesale change takes an uprising in every state where people are tired of "politics as usual."

If you want to be jaundiced, fine, but if you do not avail yourself of the system that is in place to allow you to have a say in how you are governed, then you can't be surprised when they don't do the things you want them to. If this system is not working properly, it's only because we, the voting public, have not done our job and put in the kind of people who will listen to us.

I believe in representative democracy, but I believe it only works if we all take our responsibility seriously.
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kelsium
05/15/09

@Stagtasticfantastic: Nope, it doesn't get any less hilarious. If these people were demonstrating any kind of understanding of a) how the tax system works, b) American history, c) common sense, then maybe I'd have a little respect for them. But to say that this is any kind of war protest is disingenuous. These are for the most part bitter loonies who just need something to rail against ineffectually.
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J.D.Regent
05/15/09

@HarpMadness: fucking exactly. Look, we have tax protestors on the left too. They are called Quakers and conscientious objectors and they refuse to pay war tax, risking jail time and living by their beliefs. What are they not doing? Making six figures and voting for Bush twice and then the second we try to make any social progress decide their tax dollars are too precious to be used for healthcare and schools. Cry me a fucking river teabaggers or if you are really serious, build some coalitions with other anti-war and criminal justice reform groups (yes! we've been here all along! where have you been?) and maybe then I'll believe it's your conscience and not your stock profile that's hurting.
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nothanks
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: I completely agree with you ... I can't vote in this country as im not a citizen. But i do have to pay taxes ;)

Unfortunately I think that the 'political uprising' that is long overdue will need people to do more than just vote for the right representative at the right time, the tea partys, before they were hijacked to distract us from the real issues, at least did the job of making people think about what was happening with their money, thats why i think its wrong to write them off as just gatherings of wackos
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kelsium
05/15/09

@J.D.Regent: Exactly. Moral tax objectors have existed all along, but you don't see them in the national media because that is not the object of their protest. This is wacko publicity for publicity's sake.
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J.D.Regent
05/15/09

@nothanks: and how many taxes would you have to pay in your home country?
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nothanks
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
glen beck and his cronies hijacked the tea party movement, which was a libertarian thing.

Its not about all taxes its about income tax, which is crippling regular Americans.

And for what? health care? NO social programs? NO its for the fucking war .. if you pay tax on you car you pay for the roads, if you pay property tax you pay for local services .. what is 50% of your income going to? the fucking war and fucking bankers, its bullshit
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HarpMadness
05/15/09

@nothanks: Right -- I think that's it. While there might be a place for the discussion of doing something about income tax, the Republicans are on board because they don't want any of their money going to anything BUT wars. It really seems that way sometimes. They don't want schools getting money (public schools anyway). They don't want healthcare. Or anything else.
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XavierLucage
05/15/09

@nothanks: I agree with you - but these folks aren't protesting the war expeditures OR the "war on drugs". They resent the government for trying to dig us out of the hole the previous administration dug us into with rampant deregulation.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@XavierLucage: Many of them, frankly, didn't know what they were protesting.
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C'est la vie
05/15/09

@HarpMadness: Uh...there are a LOT of Repubicans who don't support the war in Iraq. The tea party people were protesting all the bailouts, which didn't really have that much to do with taxes. It was just a stupid idea that they chose to model it after the Boston Tea Party, instead of coming up with their own platform that might have actually made sense, or at least brought up what they were intending to protest. Not well thought out.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

@cestlavie122: But didn't the bailouts start under Bush? I didn't see Fox organizing any tea parties then. That's what makes my blood boil-- they are taking a legitimate issue and turning it into a farce and temper tantrum because they didn't get their way.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Of course the GOP is having another tea party. What else are they going to do with all the left over tea that they couldn't throw in the water the first time?
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kelsium
05/15/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: That was the funniest part to me. "We don't know where to put them because our permit doesn't say anything about it."

Way to start a revolution there, dudes.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

@kelsium: Damn government bureaucracy!
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kelsium
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
The level of ineffectiveness of this tea bagging thing is never going to stop being hilarious. Unless by some fracture in space/time it becomes more effective, then it will not be so funny.
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C'est la vie
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Okay, Tea Party protests = dumb, but can we please stop calling it tea bagging? My mom keeps asking what that means and I REALLY don't want to have to tell her.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

@cestlavie122: I had to very awkwardly explain it to PoppaClash, who found it insanely funny. Then both of us got the stink-eye from MommaClash when we were like, "Ummm. Uhhh. You don't want to know." She conceded that if the Daily Show, Maddow, and Olbermann were all beside themselves about it, she probably didn't want to know.
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SomeAuthorGirl
05/15/09

@cestlavie122: Introducing SomeAuthorDad to the Urban Dictionary was not an experience I wish to repeat.
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
05/15/09

@cestlavie122: I told my mom that it's "a lewd sexual act," and that was enough knowledge for her.
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kelsium
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
When a politician starts touting herself as the lesser of two evils, you know things are full of shit.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Teabagging 2.0? Is that when Glenn Beck engages in a virtual nut-sack fetish and then calls you at 2 a.m. crying about how he just wants his country to be safer (and could you please pay more attention to the left one)?
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: Oh man, I hope he cries this time. The sight of Glenn Beck crying can resurrect dead hippies.
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AthertonMerriweather
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: Glenn Beck can't finish a sentence. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly he's crying over all the time.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

@AthertonMerriweather: his abject confusion at not being able to formulate a cohesive, logical thought?
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HarpMadness
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: HA! Also, I just can't believe they're sticking with the Tea Party stuff.
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willwriteforfood
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: Oh god, you just made me throw up my breakfast. I can't even look at Glenn Beck without retching. You'd think a "newsman" (and I use the quote marks deliberately) would maintain some dignity. Glenn, you water fountain, Walter Cronkite only cried when Kennedy was shot and even then he kept it together on the air. So let's be a wee bit more professional, shall we?
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MissFiFi
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Perry and the Texans who follow him can suck it. Hello Mexico? Have I got a state for you!
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BellaTricks
05/15/09

@MissFiFi: Note from a Texan: a lot of us are headdesking over Perry as much as the rest of the country is.

Just so we don't all get lumped together.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Hey, Nancy, you're really pulling for the Republicans to make a comeback in 2010, aren't you?
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Penny
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: Oh, the IRONY.
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Jezemale*
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: Even without a Pelosi to run on the republicans would find SOMEONE or SOMETHING. They are experts at wedge issues. Also the United States has a VERY short memory. The republicans are gonna gain back control ANYWAY.
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kelsium
05/15/09

@Penny: I was think "oh, the power of hubris."
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Jezemale*: Eventually, but not for a while. Right now they are too disorganized and the in-fighting is going to keep them down. They might win in pockets, but it will be years before they get back the ability to put together a comprehensive strategy.
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kelsium
05/15/09

@kelsium: Thinking. Wake up, Kelsium.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Penny: When you think about it, she did a better job when she was fighting them from a position of weakness. Now that she's at the top of the pyramid, she can't seem to get a handle on how to run the business of the nation while keeping the other party in check.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Don't give in to the Dark Side of how shit normally works in Washington, young Barack Skywalker. Fight the dark side. Use the force!
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

@morninggloria: who would be his Yoda? Hmmmm.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: Ted Kennedy?
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@morninggloria: Ted's got the voice for it. I think Bill Clinton is Obi-Wan.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: I can hardly see Obi-Wan having such an eye for the ladies.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: Who is Darth?
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@morninggloria: Vader i mean. Not any of the other Darths. Darth was a popular name among Dark Side moms long, long ago.
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AtomiClash: humanitarian misanthrope
05/15/09

@morninggloria: oh that's a tough one. Maybe Rupert Murdoch?
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CurtCole
05/15/09

@morninggloria: Darth is either Rush Limbaugh or Dick Cheney...minus the whole "Luke he's your daddy" thing.
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willwriteforfood
05/15/09

@morninggloria: I always saw Bush as Vader and Cheney as Emperor Palpatine, slowing working on him and turning the somewhat-mentally-lost-but-relatively-harmless-and-not-too-bright Anakin into the evil Vader.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@AtomiClash: I didn't say he'd be a good Obi-Wan.
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willwriteforfood
05/15/09

@willwriteforfood: Crap! Oh, for a preview button. Here's what I meant to say: somewhat-mentally-lost-but-relatively-harmless Anakin into the evil Vader.
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willwriteforfood
05/15/09

@willwriteforfood: Bleah. Harmless! That was the word.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
We definitely need to change how health care works in this country. Everybody pays so much for insurance, but with very little in return. For example, I need PT, but my insurance company will only pay for treatments during a 60 day period per body part, which is just a drop in the bucket for most treatments. My 60 days ends next week and I'm not even close to being "cured." I can't really afford to pay out of pocket, but I can't afford not to have the treatments either. Socialized medicine is starting to sound really good.
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MsKatherineSpeaks
05/15/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: btw, is your screen name what it is because of the Murakami novel?
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

@MsKatherineSpeaks: Yes.
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MsKatherineSpeaks
05/15/09

@Sputnik_Sweetheart: Lovely. You have good taste. Now we are friends.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
05/15/09

@MsKatherineSpeaks: :)
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morninggloria
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
The insurance industry: a giant, bloated group of companies that don't even try to make it look like they're doing anyone any good, except for in those commercials where The Cranberries play in the background or those vague ones with Dennis Hopper talking about Defining Your Dreams (R).

I started my financial career working for an insurance company that masquerades as a "financial advisory" company, and it's completely all about the bottom line, even at an individual employee level. I still have nightmares about some of the things my boss asked me to do to clients and how to convince them that they "need" more expensive insurance than they ACTUALLY need. And the people who REALLY need insurance (sick people) can't get insured! It's like a car driving club who lets you use a car if you submit a lengthy application before each use, and if you end up getting a job with a long road commute, denying you a vehicle and kicking you out of the car driving club.

I feel queasy. How did insurance ever become so powerful?
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lilbobbytables
05/15/09

@morninggloria: I don't know, but I hope that this tide can be turned.
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MissFiFi
05/15/09

@morninggloria: Because death and illness are one hell of a money making business. I worked in a hopsital where one of the chemo drugs were 30K a pop, can you imagine???
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
05/15/09

@morninggloria: Nixon! He was a genuine asshole.
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Penny
05/15/09

@MissFiFi: "Because death and illness are one hell of a money making business."

I think that's the gist of it, really. Between the insurers and pharm companies, they've negotiated themselves into an incredibly powerful position. Because there was money to be made, bottom line. All that was needed was some ass to figure out that health could be marketed as a commodity.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Penny: And don't forget the funeral business. The turn a tidy profit in pickling dead bodies and laying then in satin-lined boxes that the occupants really are in no position to enjoy.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@Penny: It's basically a corporate structure based on gambling.

Sort of like the derivatives market.
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MissFiFi
05/15/09

@morninggloria: It was Kaiser Permanente during the Nixon term as they put it in SICKO:
"The film's most interesting scene is an archived White House conversation between then-President Richard Nixon and his aide John Ehrlichman that Moore argues is the starting point of the modern healthcare complex. In the Feb. 7, 1971 recording -- part of the hundreds of hours of Nixon's secret White House tapes -- Ehrlichman explains "health maintenance organizations like Edward Kaiser's Permanente thing." Kaiser Permanente is now the nation's largest HMO. "Edgar Kaiser is running his Permanente deal for profit. ... All the incentives are toward less medical care," Ehrlichman says to Nixon, according to a transcript. "The less care they give them, the more money they make"
YOU BASTARDS!!!
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MsKatherineSpeaks
05/15/09

@MissFiFi: Thank you! That was much greater detail than I could muster.
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
05/15/09

@MsKatherineSpeaks: Yeah, and I thought that George W. Bush surrounded himself with nefarious people. Most of our problems can be traced back to Richard Nixon. Sadly it was known he was completely dishonest when he was the Vice President. It's as if no one had heard the "Checkers speech," and they elected him. Nixon led to the rise of the yuppy which led to the fall of community interests with Ronald Reagan. It makes me so depressed sometimes I want to vomit. I was born during the Reagan administration, and while all those assholes rot in the ground, I have to live in this horrible system they erected to control, oppress, and enslave people with debt for good medicine and higher education.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Alys Brangwin is one smartass pawn: Did someone say "nefarious?"
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Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: How about "dastardly?"
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@Alys Brangwin is one smartass pawn: Oh no... nefarious is good. :)
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Michael Savage has to be CRAZY to think Hillary will vouch for him.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: UH OH! HILLARY BETTER LISTEN BECAUSE HE HAS AN INTENSE LAST NAME THAT HE PICKED OUT FOR HIMSELF!
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

In reply to Nancy Pelosi Gives Tortured Explanation of Torture Knowledge
Karl Rove: Champion of the Fifth Amendment.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: In my mind, he is Karl ROBE, like in the first episode of 30 rock, when Tracey Jordan insists that white men are trying to pit women and minorities against each other.
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NefariousNewt
05/15/09

@morninggloria: I thought everyone knew that? White men in positions of power have been playing minorities off against one another since before the Revolution.
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morninggloria
05/15/09

@NefariousNewt: Have you seen that Tracey Jordan rant? It's epic. He also says he's not a thug; he's just straight up mentally ill. And then he says,

"And they be injecting AIDS into our Chicken McNuggets. THAT'S A METAPHOR!"
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