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South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution

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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
When our military thinks it's OK for men to rape a fellow soldier, what makes us think they'll give a flying fig about our foreign sisters?
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MizJenkins
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Ah yes, and this would be why I get annoyed every time someone asks if my parents met in the war.
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LaFemme
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
This happens in every country where any foreign government is stationed for a long period of time going all the way back to the Crusades. I am less surprised by the idea that troops are having sex with local prostitutes than by the idea that the South Korean government was so complicit in supplying them.

On the one hand, it is without a doubt horrible to be forced into prostitution (no one questions that). Nevertheless, whether the two governments wanted to stop the spread of std's for the health of the troops or of the women, if the end result is that condom use is more wide-spread and the women are receiving proper treatment for stds they may find themselves carrying, then I don't have a problem with the intervention as it benefits both parties in the longterm (albeit a small benefit perhaps, it is better than having a massive HIV outbreak)
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Jack_Burton
01/08/09

@LaFemme: As a part of Asian history, though, the US looks pretty bad... We liberate the Korean women from the Japanese as WWII sex-slaves, only to turn them into a "product" during the Korean War.
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BlondeGrlz
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Ok, prostitutes are not "recreation" - I don't care how long you've been in your barracks whacking it yourself. And I'm sure these women weren't living in luxury, receiving real health care, or given a way to report abuse or mistreatment at the hands of the men. But I can't be outraged on behalf of someone who intentionally moved to a town to become a prostitute at the age of 18.
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clonie
01/08/09

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: My mom's friend ended up as a prostitute because she was married off to a guy who was already married and it came to light. Since they had already consummated the marriage, she was viewed as damaged goods despite her basically being tricked in to the marriage. Her family wouldn't have her back and she lost her whole support system and while it might have been a stupid decision to make, she really didn't have a lot of options on how to stay clothed and fed. In the end, she married one of the American military men and moved to America.
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BlondeGrlz
01/08/09

@clonie: I doubt those exact circumstances apply very many other women. And although it's true when your only option to not starve or freeze to death is selling your body it doesn't feel much like a choice, we aren't talking about sex trafficking or slavery. I think this really boils down to a pro- or anti-legalized prostitution argument, and I happen to fall on the pro- side.
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clonie
01/08/09

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: I'm just having a gut reaction to not feeling outrage over her situation because she choose to move there since I personally grew up with quite a few women who were prostitutes in Korea after the war. They were/are my aunties and from hearing their stories from my mom, they didn't end up selling their bodies because they were oh so happy to do so, but that it was one of the only options available to them to support themselves for whatever the circumstances were in their lives. So while my example was probably more of an outlier, I know a few others that were probably more typical.
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BlondeGrlz
01/08/09

@clonie: Since I was referring to the one specific woman quoted above, I don't know what your reaction is about. If you want to discuss how and why women become prostitutes we're going to need a few hours- but since I've already said I support legalized prostitution (in theory, in practice it's never going to be perfect) read "clevernamehere"'s thread above. She and the other commenters in thread have covered most of it.
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clonie
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Quite a few of mom's Korean friends in America were former prostitutes that ended up marrying one of the men that they serviced and while most of them don't really talk too much about it, she has one friend that is really open about her situation and how she ended up there and it's all really crazy. I wouldn't feel comfortable enough to ask them about their experiences, so everything I've heard has come from my mom (who is incredibly non-judgmental considering her uberChristian leanings).

There is a stereotype in the older Korean community that if you are within a certain age range and married to an American, that you were more likely than not a prostitute.
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JerseyGrrrl
01/08/09

@clonie: I read your response further down in another thread, and this has me thinking: Can you imagine starting a marriage to someone who was initially your "client"? There would be no pretense of equality or respect as many of us would hope to have in our marriages...

...Plus, as much as I want to think romantically, like my beloved opera, I doubt these American men married for love so much as for a move adventurous sex life than they thought they could get from the girl next door at home. Or am I just completely glass half empty...
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Evie Havok
01/08/09

@JerseyGrrrl: It's called a fetish. Ugh. It's kind of gross when you think about it.
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la.donna.pietra
01/08/09

@clonie: My grandma knew an awful lot of Korean "war brides" when my grandpa was an Army officer. According to her, they were frequently treated very poorly by their husbands. After she passed away, I found out that she had quietly gone to the commanding officers of the husbands in question and brought the situation to their collective attention. Turns out guys in the military are a lot less likely to beat the crap out of the wives if their commanding officers are keeping an eye out for bruises.

My grandma kicked ass.
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clevernamehere
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
This is terrible.

But then, I'm anti-legalized prositution.

How do those are you who are pro-legalized prositution feel about it? I don't find it to be that far from legalized prositution. Mandatory testing is all about stopping prositutes from spreading disease, not protecting the women. Women who test positive are banned from working, though I can't think of any that have been locked up. The Netherlands has also considered special sex work visas to meet demand- Eastern European women would have the option for a fast tracked work visa that would only allow them to work in the sex trade.
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musicpup
01/08/09

@clevernamehere: In Germany, prostitution is legal. Prostitutes, however, also get health benefits and insurance. So if they contract HIV, they get disability pay because they can no longer work that job. I also think there might be retirement pay in it, but I'm not sure.

I think legalized prostitution in this form protects women. There's also a lot of raids to break up human trafficking. I'm a little torn on the issue - if it's done the way it is in Germany, I have no problem with it. Fact is, prostitution is probably the oldest human trade out there and it's not going away.
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anonymiss
01/08/09

@clevernamehere: i am for legalized prostitution to eliminate pimps and the abuse they often dole out to the prostitutes and if the women's health is regulated for their benefit (ie - disease testing, safe sex education, providing them with contraceptives, self defense training, abortion services, etc.). basically, i'm for it if the system of regulation is setup to benefit and protect the workers, not the johns. oh and it would also need to include legislation that would heavily prosecute johns who attempt any rape or unwanted violent act on the woman.

that is my prostitution utopia
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clevernamehere
01/08/09

@anonymiss: @musicpup is worth twenty camels: So then your only object to what happened in Korea is the treatment of women with STIs?

@musicpup is worth twenty camels: Barney: [To Ted] Do you have some puritanical hang up on prostitution? Dude, it's the world's oldest profession.
Marshall: Do you really think that's true?
Barney: Oh yeah, I bet even Cro-Magnons used to give cave hookers an extra fish for putting out.
Marshall: Ah ha, so the oldest profession would be fishermen. Kaboom! You've been lawyered!
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JerseyGrrrl
01/08/09

@musicpup is worth twenty camels: @junkyardarts: I agree with the two of you. Being for legalized prostitution doesn't mean supporting this shit arrangement. But you raise a good point, clevername, that in reality, that's essentially what this turning a blind eye was allowed to become.
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RisaPlata
01/08/09

@musicpup is worth twenty camels: I don't have a problem with legalized prostitution for the sake of devaluing and hopefully dissolving the exploitation- making it so the prostitutes are women who really want to do this for their work and not women who feel they have no other options and nowhere to go for help. So the German model seems a good one. The problem with the South Korean model is that the government, instead of dissolving exploitation, became complicit in it, which magnified the problem because the ones doing the exploiting were now the ones who didn't even have to hide from police.
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clevernamehere
01/08/09

@JerseyGrrrl: The thing is, I don't even think it is a blind eye. When you say sex work is just a job its is very tricky to then turn around and say but we won't give specialized sex visas to way we give specialized computer programming visas. Sure you can say it is coersive and feeds on dire economic straits, but the sex workers in both the Netherlands and Germany are 70+% foriegn so how different is there position than the women who might be offered a sex visa in Belarus?

If the concern was protecting the women, the johns would have to submit a recent STD test before visiting a brothel. They don't because those laws were designed around the idea that sex workers are the vectors of disease, even thoigh the receptive sex partner is always far more at risk.

@RisaPlata: I don't think sex work will ever becoming something only women who really want to do it are involved it. Demand is greater when it is legalized and there will always be poor people who are truly desperate for money.
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amenfro
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Now I know it's just a typo, but I wouldn't be shocked if the American government was giving women lesions in South Korea.
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amenfro
01/08/09

@amenfro: Wait . . . that's the South Korean government giving lesions.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/08/09

@amenfro: My first thought, too.
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morninggloria
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
The worst part of the US military's encouragement of prostitution is Miss Saigon. Let's pray that a sequal, Lady Seoul is not in the works.
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morninggloria
01/08/09

@morninggloria: SEQUEL
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musicpup
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
In the words of my mother, who was stationed there for a while:

D'OH.
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anonymiss
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
to add to this, after the war, there was a huge increase in the birth of mixed race children (white and korean, black and korean, etc.) to women in the camps (and women not in the camps too, but not as many), but because of racism in korea, the half black children were ostracized, abandoned, and sometimes abused. of course, neither the soliders who fathered these children nor the american govt wanted anything to do with them, so many of them ended up dying or becoming involved in lives of crime and prostition to support themselves.
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LaFemme
01/08/09

@anonymiss: Yes, the USG law on the children of American soldiers stationed abroad allows for the children to seek and receive US citizenship (good) but ONLY if they can prove, with a name and ackowledgement, that the father was an American citizen. The reality is that a lot of the children and mothers do not know exactly who the father was, especially if the child was born to a prostitute who was with multiple soldiers.
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Shamrockette
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Congrats to those women who are speaking out against prostitution! It takes a lot of courage to stand up to it.

But I'm just so disgusted at how the U.S. military would do such a thing to poor women and girls in war torn areas. It seriously makes me despise those types of creeps.
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WallSt_Rabbit
01/08/09

@Shamrockette lieks Mudkipz: While this basically legalized and regulated prostitution is pretty disgusting, I want to remind you that most of the women did this of their own free will. It says that right in the post.
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Shamrockette
01/08/09

@WallSt_Rabbit: Still, the U.S. generally looks down upon prostitution, but that might just only apply to our own citizens.

I don't know, to me it still doesn't feel right when women willingly go into prostitution. But that's just how I feel.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
01/08/09

@Shamrockette lieks Mudkipz: Don't criticize the military... it's unpatriotic!
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beliefunwrought
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Considering the origins of the term "Hooker" is this really that surprising?
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CrazyLegsMeg
01/08/09

@beliefunwrought: Pray tell, what are the origins of the word "hooker"?
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beliefunwrought
01/08/09

@CrazyLegsMeg: General Fighting Joe Hooker, commander of the Army of the Potomac, albeit briefly, during the Civil War. His camp was always surrounded with prostitutes, thus earning them the nickname "Hookers." Or so the story goes.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
01/08/09

@beliefunwrought: Wow. The More You Know...
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
I am shocked (shocked I tell you!) to learn that prostitution is going on in this military establishment.
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NefariousNewt
01/08/09

In reply to South Korea, U.S. Military Accused Of Encouraging Prostitution
Next thing you'll be telling me is that the U.S. Government propped up the Shah of Iran and sold atomic weapon details to Saddam Hussein!
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Lymed
01/08/09

@widowcity: and then we'll hear that the US Government chose not to tell a group of black men with syphillis that the disease could be cured with antibiotics until the NYT broke the story.
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ceejeemcbeegee is not here
01/08/09

@NefariousNewt: Or that they CIA trained Al-quaeda and/or the Taliban during the Cold War to get Russia out of Afghanistan.
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