@Kali Mama: That's a scared teenaged girl who's confused about the messages society is sending her. That's not an American theme AT ALL.
Oh wait, it is. A very true theme, and one that's causing a very high rate of teen pregnancy and teen abortion. A rate not seen in countries where there are high rates of professive Christians, Agnostics, Hindi, Jews, etc, etc.
Teen pregnancy is the USA isn't because of of fundie USA Christians, but they certainly play a part in the high rate. But only a part.
@Dancingfrog: She's talking about the Virgin Mary. Teenage girl, virgin, or at least claiming to be a virgin, a man who isn't actually the father filling the father role. I'd say that's a pretty big theme in Christianity.
@Elle O. Elle: It's not a theme in the way you seem to be implying. Nice try, butteen pregnancy in the way it is portrayed on American TV is almost always actually linked to how it is viewed and treated in the USA.
@PaintedTrollop: It's awful. In America, they're forced to go though so much. They're oppression is comparable to the oppression of wealthy white men. They have it so bad these days!
While it's true that there are families (not all of them Christian) who have thrown their children out of the house or abandoned them, to generalize and characterize that kind of behavior as "Christian" or somehow representative of Christians as a whole is both inaccurate and unnecessary. I don't watch Glee so I don't know how they treated it - I certainly don't think these things should never be portrayed in media, considering they do happen. The problem is when it's the only way a group is portrayed in media, which frankly isn't something Christians have nearly as much of a problem with as other groups.
Regardless, I think we can handle those issues without reverting to stereotypes.
@shoroko: The treatment in the show definitely did not portray the parents as "Christian". Aside from the fact that the daughter is in the celibacy club, my recollection is that the parents are portrayed as strictly having ridiculous expectations of their daughter and zero sympathy for her. Christ or christianity is definitely not invoked.
Patriarchal standards of virginal purity sure are though.
@shoroko: The family in question is a hyper-conservative Christian stereotype, the same as Mercedes' "sassy black woman," Kurt's "effeminate fashion conscious gay man," Finn's "dumb jock," and Rachel's "neurotic overachiever." It's just that the show's other stereotypes are so commonly represented in media (and occasionally subverted within the show) that they don't seem to garner as much fuss from the media.
Also, it obviously matters more if it's conservative evangelicals being mocked. They're just so persecuted donchaknow.
@femme-bot: Y'know, they're Christians. Muslims aren't xslims and jews aren't xews. The whole "I'm gonna use an X and not Christ" is about as rebellious as a Hot Topic t-shirt is punk.
And yeah, I know about the Greek "X" but that's not how you're using it.
@moifauxmail: I type it because it's shorter. I do the same with xmas. I didn't know my shorthand was an act of rebellion.
It's funny that it bothers you.
@moifauxmail: The use of "X" for "Christ" has roots in both the Greek and Anglo-Saxon texts. It is not disrespectful and would never be used to replace another syllable of another religion because there is no history of doing so. Anyone who tells you it is disrespectful to Christianity either has A. knows nothing about the history of the Church and/or Christianity, B. is trying to incite anger purposefully or C. both.
@TallyCola: Clearly, we're oppressing xtians. And xmas. And xtinas everywhere.
Everytime I hear a xtian whine about oppression/discrimination/disrespect, I'm tempted to feed them to a lion.
@moifauxmail: You clearly don't know about the "Greek 'X'" since you tried to put it in the words "muslims" and "jews". How embarrassing for you. Love, xtina (omg how dare I be ~rebellious~ and use an x as shorthand in my own name! blasphemy!)
@femme-bot:
Substitute in Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Atheists for your Christians lion food and you'd be excoriated as a bigot.
I don't think Christians are being oppressed, that's silliness. But I also don't see the point in being ignorant and rude over someone's religion, or lack thereof.
@moifauxmail: If you find "xtian" to be provocative, you really need to get out more. You "called me out"? On what?
It's shorthand, get the fuck over it. If you're looking to be offended, just let me know. Trust me honey, you'll know if I'm TRYING to offend xtians, and for once, this wasn't one of those times. I suggest you not be so easily offended by shorthand. #stfuchristians #cheesewithwhine
@moifauxmail: The feeding to lions was a joke. Do you understand it, or do I have to explain it? I hope not!
I don't see the point in getting ass hurt over an abbreviation and whining about it, but hey, you're just LOOKING for an argument, right? #stfuchristians
@femme-bot: First sign something isn't a joke, people aren't laughing. Second sign, you have to justify your joke. Third sign, you accuse people who find it rude or snide of "not getting it".
And tossing in the "you'll know when I'm trying to offend Christians" line just means you're peddling cheap provocation and pre-packaged resentment.
Sweeping statements about people based on their religious beliefs is offensive and trite. Would #STFUJEWS or #STFUATHEISTS be a funny tag?
@Valkyrie607: OMG THAT'S SO OFFENSIVE. How DARE you insult white people!? I mean, switch white for black and it's not funny anymore! See how races and religions are comparable like that!?
Yeah...some people aren't educated and don't know what "privilege" is. Shame.
@moifauxmail: Where did I make sweeping statements?
If I wanted to offend you, I'd tell you to suck the imaginary dick of your imaginary god, but I have manners, so I don't say things like that.
I didn't make any sweeping statements. You're getting offended by shorthand, decided to be RUDE about me using shorthand, and now you're offended that I was rude in response? Really? Buy a fucking clue.
Also, you can't switch religions out for each other. Doesn't work that way. Look up "privilege" then come back.
Man, and they claim you can buy educations these days...
@femme-bot: I can not speak to the larger discussion, because damn it, I took German and Japanese....
...but that Graphic is a beautiful thing. And it will come into so much use as Christmas(Xmas, which is not sarcasm, it's just easier that way) approaches!Or when I'm in the DMV and staring blankly at a generic Happy Holidays! sign and suddenly being ranted at by the lady next to me about the watering down of Christmas by the forces of evil (or something) and how horrible it all is. Like last year. I wish I had that on a T-shirt. It's like any vocal minority of a much larger and powerful majority - of course it's a massive generalization, but little but feelings are hurt.
Also, Glee: Ryan Murphy is a proud shitster. Both Nip/Tuck and Glee make that clear. Getting upset about anything he does is playing right into his hands.
@desertbloom79: My dad always told me that writing "xmas" was blasphemous because it removes the name of Christ! It was equivalent to taking the Lord's name in vain, which I also wasn't allowed to do. D:
@femme-bot: Wow, look what you found on /r/Atheism. I guess if you can't buy an education you can find a pithy .jpg to sum up your beliefs.
First it's shorthand, then it's cracks about lions now it's your imaginary god can suck my dick. What next, an all caps quotation from "The God Delusion". I'd suggest the bit about the God of the Old Testament being psychotic, that one never gets old and looks swank on a t-shirt.
I can switch religions out for each other because any statement as intolerant and generally pig-headed as yours have escalated to in this thread say alot more about your intolerance than any non-specific Christians out there. Find yourself a new straw man.
Here's the kicker, I'm not a Christian myself. Yes, it's possible to not believe in a religion and still show people common decency and respect rather than mouth off like every other 14 year old with a keyboard.
@moifauxmail: Whatever, yo. You embarrassed yourself by going off half-cocked. You made a mountain out of a molehill and now you look silly.
For what it's worth, if Jews and atheists whined as much as Christians do about imagined offenses and illusory persecution, I'd tell them to STFU as well.
Someone ought to point out that the only three characters with identified religions are Quinn (Christian) and Rachel and Puck (Jewish) and Puck's family is hardly a "good" Jewish family, eating pork on Simchat Torah and saying not dating a nice Jewish girl is as bad as being a Nazi.
The entire Gleenaverse is filled with weirdos and hypocrites. That's the point of the show. Having one bad Christian family does not make a show anti-Christian. For all we know, Finn's awesome mom or Kurt's understanding dad could be Christian, too. Ohio is about 76% Christian, so odds are good that Quinn is not actually the only Christian, just the only one whose religion has been relevant to a plot point.
@vulcanized: Exactly. So well put. The concerned writer might have asked, Is Glee anti-mainstream-organized-conservative Christianity? Maybe so, but not any more notably than the show satirizes anyone else. On the other hand, is Glee anti-Christian, i.e., opposed to Christ's actual behavior as described in the Gospels? Nope, not at all.
Wait, wasn't many of the cheerios and football players also in the celibacy club? I guess that doesn't mean they identify as Christian but I assumed at least some of them did. In addition, just because the others don't speak of it doesn't mean they don't consider themselves Christian.
@curiousgeorgiana: Yeah, I find that people who feel compelled to aggressively label things as "Christian" or "not" (so: evangelical, religious-right Christians) tend to behave in ways that are decidedly... not Christ-like.
@curiousgeorgiana: I agree, they;ve highlighted Jewish hypocrisy too. Puck' mother eating pork on a high holiday and asking him why he can't date a nice Jewish girl.
@LilSpitfire: I am Jewish myself (ethnically not religiously). My Grandfather (who stopped practicing from the moment he left his family home during the war) had a list of who he wanted my mother to marry it went:
South African Jewish Doctor
Jewish Doctor
South African Doctor
Jew
Doctor
South African
My Father was none of these. Of his 3 children only married on the list (and she was just a Doctor).
Trust me I understand the phenomenon
la.donna.pietra promoted this comment
Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! was starred
Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! was unstarred
@Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!: True, there are so many forms of Christianity. It's hard to remember that sometimes--unfortunately, the ones we hear the most from are the most annoying.
@Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!: Even Evangelicals aren't all like that. I have a good friend who is Evangelical (I'm not even remotely) and she has a lot of distaste for hypocrisy and cruelty.
She's a genuine good person who practices exactly what she preaches. Like any other group of people there are jerks and there are cool people.
@curiousgeorgiana: agreed. there are literally a vagillion sects of christianity (including multiple branches of evangelical ministries) some of which practice things that are so different, if you didn't know better you would think they were two different religions. personally i think many people (read: people most prone to fervent scapegoating outbursts) are forgetting one of the main pillars of christianity, which is: to be like christ. christ, who did not take whole groups of people and damn them, or preach about hatred and man made punishments. christ, who treated individuals on an individual basis.
@the glamwich: I get the "You're not a real Christian." from people all the time were I live (Mid-South) because I'm Episcopalian. When I try to explain to these people I am a "real Christian", they look at me like I'm the one who's confused.
But to the matter at hand, my experience living in small town Arkansas is there is rampant teen pregnancy here and rampant Evangelicalism. The pregnant teens are not thrown out but end up living with their parents long after the baby is born and live as an extended family. In fact there is no "shame" but rather celebration. I don't know what to feel about that. I'm glad the young girls have support, but I'm also sad that they never got to experience adulthood as independent women.
@beboptheflop: Former Mormon here. When I lived in Baptist-heavy Oklahoma I was forever hearing that I was not a real Christian and that I was going to hell. I guess the answer to WWJD is "be a hypocritical douchebag."
Chaske Spencer, you are nothing like the Beatles. The Beatles were talented. You are not. You are in a shite film with shite acting. Not the same thing. Not even close.
@Mrs. Stephen Fry: To be fair, he wasn't trying to make comparisons re: talent, but rather of girls gone batshitcrazy. I actually do feel sorry for these guys... it's not their fault that our generation chose a less-cool infatuation to wet their knickers over!
@Mrs. Stephen Fry: That's true. But that's probably in part the problem- we've grown up with these folk tales of yore about girls scaling fences to get to the Fab Four, that when we hear about similar circumstances involving the Sparkle Vamp, there really isn't any other comparison easily at hand.
And for this, I blame George. You should never trust the quiet one.
01:26 AM
04:08 AM
Oh wait, it is. A very true theme, and one that's causing a very high rate of teen pregnancy and teen abortion. A rate not seen in countries where there are high rates of professive Christians, Agnostics, Hindi, Jews, etc, etc.
Teen pregnancy is the USA isn't because of of fundie USA Christians, but they certainly play a part in the high rate. But only a part.
05:41 AM
05:51 AM
06:07 AM
09:38 AM
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
Regardless, I think we can handle those issues without reverting to stereotypes.
11/27/09
Patriarchal standards of virginal purity sure are though.
11/27/09
Also, it obviously matters more if it's conservative evangelicals being mocked. They're just so persecuted donchaknow.
11/27/09
11/27/09
#stfuchristians
11/27/09
And yeah, I know about the Greek "X" but that's not how you're using it.
11/27/09
It's funny that it bothers you.
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
Everytime I hear a xtian whine about oppression/discrimination/disrespect, I'm tempted to feed them to a lion.
11/27/09
11/27/09
It's funny that you're provocative until you're called on it.
11/27/09
Substitute in Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Atheists for your Christians lion food and you'd be excoriated as a bigot.
I don't think Christians are being oppressed, that's silliness. But I also don't see the point in being ignorant and rude over someone's religion, or lack thereof.
But hey, you're just trying to be brief right?
11/27/09
It's shorthand, get the fuck over it. If you're looking to be offended, just let me know. Trust me honey, you'll know if I'm TRYING to offend xtians, and for once, this wasn't one of those times. I suggest you not be so easily offended by shorthand.
#stfuchristians
#cheesewithwhine
11/27/09
I don't see the point in getting ass hurt over an abbreviation and whining about it, but hey, you're just LOOKING for an argument, right?
#stfuchristians
11/27/09
And tossing in the "you'll know when I'm trying to offend Christians" line just means you're peddling cheap provocation and pre-packaged resentment.
Sweeping statements about people based on their religious beliefs is offensive and trite. Would #STFUJEWS or #STFUATHEISTS be a funny tag?
11/27/09
See the parallel?
11/27/09
11/27/09
Yeah...some people aren't educated and don't know what "privilege" is. Shame.
11/27/09
@moifauxmail: Where did I make sweeping statements?
If I wanted to offend you, I'd tell you to suck the imaginary dick of your imaginary god, but I have manners, so I don't say things like that.
I didn't make any sweeping statements. You're getting offended by shorthand, decided to be RUDE about me using shorthand, and now you're offended that I was rude in response? Really? Buy a fucking clue.
Also, you can't switch religions out for each other. Doesn't work that way. Look up "privilege" then come back.
Man, and they claim you can buy educations these days...
11/27/09
...but that Graphic is a beautiful thing. And it will come into so much use as Christmas(Xmas, which is not sarcasm, it's just easier that way) approaches!Or when I'm in the DMV and staring blankly at a generic Happy Holidays! sign and suddenly being ranted at by the lady next to me about the watering down of Christmas by the forces of evil (or something) and how horrible it all is. Like last year. I wish I had that on a T-shirt. It's like any vocal minority of a much larger and powerful majority - of course it's a massive generalization, but little but feelings are hurt.
Also, Glee: Ryan Murphy is a proud shitster. Both Nip/Tuck and Glee make that clear. Getting upset about anything he does is playing right into his hands.
11/27/09
12:02 AM
First it's shorthand, then it's cracks about lions now it's your imaginary god can suck my dick. What next, an all caps quotation from "The God Delusion". I'd suggest the bit about the God of the Old Testament being psychotic, that one never gets old and looks swank on a t-shirt.
I can switch religions out for each other because any statement as intolerant and generally pig-headed as yours have escalated to in this thread say alot more about your intolerance than any non-specific Christians out there. Find yourself a new straw man.
Here's the kicker, I'm not a Christian myself. Yes, it's possible to not believe in a religion and still show people common decency and respect rather than mouth off like every other 14 year old with a keyboard.
12:44 AM
For what it's worth, if Jews and atheists whined as much as Christians do about imagined offenses and illusory persecution, I'd tell them to STFU as well.
11/27/09
The entire Gleenaverse is filled with weirdos and hypocrites. That's the point of the show. Having one bad Christian family does not make a show anti-Christian. For all we know, Finn's awesome mom or Kurt's understanding dad could be Christian, too. Ohio is about 76% Christian, so odds are good that Quinn is not actually the only Christian, just the only one whose religion has been relevant to a plot point.
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
I would argue the "Moral Majority" and all of its minions are in fact anti-Christian.
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
Only thing that got to me was some of my friends would openly say they dated non-Jews for practice but would never marry them.
11/27/09
South African Jewish Doctor
Jewish Doctor
South African Doctor
Jew
Doctor
South African
My Father was none of these. Of his 3 children only married on the list (and she was just a Doctor).
Trust me I understand the phenomenon
11/27/09
(Yeah, I'm a bad Jew. Your point?)
11/27/09
I've gotten in trouble with the minions of the undead on here for not specifying in the past.
11/27/09
(Full disclosure: Christian here.)
11/27/09
She's a genuine good person who practices exactly what she preaches. Like any other group of people there are jerks and there are cool people.
11/27/09
i wonder sometimes where that principal got lost.
[full disclosure: also christian]
02:55 AM
But to the matter at hand, my experience living in small town Arkansas is there is rampant teen pregnancy here and rampant Evangelicalism. The pregnant teens are not thrown out but end up living with their parents long after the baby is born and live as an extended family. In fact there is no "shame" but rather celebration. I don't know what to feel about that. I'm glad the young girls have support, but I'm also sad that they never got to experience adulthood as independent women.
10:53 AM
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/27/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
And for this, I blame George. You should never trust the quiet one.