I was randomly thinking about this this morning- how little equality there is in the workforce and how to change it. I honestly feel like what needs to happen is wider acceptance of women in non-powered but typically male positions, not necessarily political positions of power, and vice versa. What I mean is, until we reach equality in our road crews, landscaping teams, and construction crews, as well as in our domestic and service work positions (more men in those), we simply won't see more women being elected because people will still see others in terms of proscribed gender roles. Sort of a bottom-up mentality, I guess. It just seems like no matter how many female senators we have, people will still see women as belonging in the home if all housekeepers are women and still see men as tough if all cops are men because gender stereotypes are continually being subconsciously reinforced on a daily basis and it's very easy to write off those female senators as exceptions to the general rule.
But then again, I haven't studied this and it was before coffee.
@slowpoke.r: Well, that might be happening now. I don't know about everyone else but my boyfriend, while not unemployed per se, is currently working from home.
Coming home to dishes done and dinner made is nice but he blew my mind the other night when he told me he wanted to stay home with our future kids. I am a lawyer and I love my job though recently I've started worrying that I wouldn't be ready for kids until it was too late. The thought that he'd want to stay home with the kids never crossed my mind (even though he's MUCH better equiped to spend ten hours a day with children).
The rethinking of gender roles could be the silver lining of a crap economy.
@PetiteGal: Hm. It's a class issue, perhaps- are girls being encouraged to go into white collar fields, or are people who have the access and education to get white collar jobs more likely to support equality, or at least make a show of it? I really don't know.
In terms of the types of jobs I'm talking about, I'd say there definitely is a physical strength bias as well as a protect-the-little-women mentality that helps keep these jobs gender specific, as well as very limiting concepts about what is "manly" or appropriate work for men. The former biases ignore the fact that women are much more likely to experience violence in their lives already, as well as the fact that domestic work is often just as labor intensive, if not more so, than traditionally male labor-oriented jobs. Those are really based on nothing more than gender roles and they aren't challenged by making a woman the head of the County Works Department, because no matter how capable she is she will still be seen as a token or an exception. The only way to change them is by employing more women and more men in jobs that are currently seen as belonging almost completely, if not completely, to the other gender.
@winner: That's awesome. My bro stayed at home for a couple years with his kids and it really does help people reconsider their own notions of what is and isn't appropriate. I hope you're right about the silver lining.
Many Nordic countries also have a lot of social programs designed to aid working mothers -- for instance, paternity leave and universal daycare. I imagine that this is a huge factor in their advances.
Gender equality nearly exists in Scandinavia because both men and women understand the secret of lutefisk and aren't afraid to use it against the other group. It sounds all peaceful and fun and stuff, but it's really more like the Cuban missle crisis than Utopia.
Well for one thing they're smaller and lack the diversity of the UK and the US. You can get more progressive legislation through if an overwhelming majority think the same way and have the same needs.
@Jessi Ramsey: Smaller, less diverse, more economically stable (well, not Iceland, at least not since the banks collapsed), more peaceful...the list goes on and on.
@athenaswisdom: But economically stable and more peaceful for whom? The Minister for Integration and Gender Equality in Sweden has a bias against Muslims. Doesn't really sound like equality efforts are being made for anyone but the majority to me. That isn't different from other countries.
@Jessi Ramsey: Hey, she IS a muslim! (This is NOT about beliefs - it's about your right to impose various restrictions on others, based on your beliefs.)
She has just been very clear that we do not want - for example - separate divorce laws based on religious beliefs (muslim or other) in our country, nor do we condone, say, female circumcision.
If the law says that you are not allowed to spank children, you cannot ask for an exception based on your religious beliefs.
If you think that boys and girls should not go to school together, or that girls should not participate in e g swimming education (mandatory!), or be taught religion (the subject treats all religions as well as humanism/athesim equally in our schools) or find out about where babies come from (mandatory as well) - well, forget it.
Don't try to use religion as an argument - REGARDLESS of whether you're christian (any flavour), muslim, judaeic, mormon, scientologist, bahai... (And home schooling does not exist in our country.)
I might as well ask if you have a bias against women? Black women? Immigrants? Highly educated women? Liberals? Female ministers? People who consider religious beliefs (or lack thereof) to be something personal and private? Female muslims who do not believe in sharia? Any or all of the above?
Then you'd find good company in some of the crazy right-wing christians in our country - they don't like her type either.
But I'm willing to assume that you just forgot to look up the facts.
@littlegreenalien: Yes, I as an educated black woman who is the daughter of immigrants have an issue with black women, the educated, ministers and immigrants.
Separation of church and state is one thing. Protecting women against violence, I am absolutely for that. But saying that Muslims who pray 5 times a day or wear the veil are limiting their opportunities and preventing themselves from "assimilating" is promoting hegemony.
Also, the minster's mother is Muslim but she was raised as non-religious.
@Dalinae: [www.nytimes.com]
I agree with her that people misread what "freedom of religion" means, genital mutilation and other anti female practices are things to not be tolerated in any society. But Muslims who live the book of Koran are limiting their opportunities? Living the word of the Koran can manifest a belief ranging from conservative to progressive feminism. She's painting Islam with one brush.
She also subscribes to the 'complaining about discrimination is making one's self into a victim' school of thinking. She believes Muslims marginalize themselves. How can someone who believes that take the issues/complaints of immigrants and/or minorities seriously?
@Jessi Ramsey: Yeah, she's a bit out there. That's one thing about previously-disadvantaged bootstrap people: they either get a lot more compassion for groups out of the mainstream or way, way less.
These "The childfree shouldn't be left out! What do I get if other women get more maternity leave?" is a big part of why the US does so poorly in the rankings.
Other countries have a more collectivist mindset. An Icelandic with no plans to have kids is unlikely to think she should get something for another woman's childbearing. Raising children is a collective responsibility. Good family leave policies and subsidized day care help children grow up to be responsible adults. And that benefits the childfree because it ups the odds they'll have a nice nurse when they're in the home.
Not that this calls into question the main point made in this piece, but if this is a ranking system, is it really fair to say that because one country improves, another automatically starts doing worse?
"67% of countries were found to be improving in terms of gender equality, 33% are getting worse," but wouldn't this be the case if all the countries were objectively improving as well, since it seems to be referring to movement in the rankings, and not the actual markers used to make the rankings?
Forbes used the same language, so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something here... #gendergapindex
@GoldenRatioφ (aka -girl11): I'm pretty sure it would refer to the percentage the countries were scored at (e.g., Norway got an 82.8%) rather than their movement in the rankings. So 33% of countries scored at a lower percentage than they did previously. #gendergapindex
@shoroko: And you are right, from the World Economic Forum page: "Out of the 115 countries covered in the report since 2006, more than two-thirds have posted gains in overall index scores."
I thought it wasn't perfectly clear from the Forbes page exactly what they were referring to, but maybe I'm just really sleep deprived. #gendergapindex
Re: Canadian maternity leave, what happens is you can get unemployment insurance for a year, which I think is at most 55% of your salary. I don't think there are any Canadian companies (or governments) that actually pay their employees while they take parental leave. But you have the legal right to take it and not lose your job. So that's something. #gendergapindex
Interesting that this report is sponsored by Goldman Sachs, amongst other businesses, whose Brian Giffins once said "We have to tolerate the inequality as a way to achieve greater prosperity and opportunity for all". What is the real point of this report? #gendergapindex
I feel like there's a serious misunderstanding happening in the comments here. Iceland isn't an ecomonic clusterfuck because they have a female PM; Iceland has a female PM because the economic clusterfuck resulted in a good ol' fashioned "vote the bastards out" election. Johanna is in there to fix it; she didn't cause it.
And just because this deserves to be on Jez, I was reminded of my favorite quote ever from FP magazine:
"The crisis is man-made," claims banker Halla, 40, who like all Icelanders, is only addressed by her first name. "It's always the same guys," she says. "Ninety-nine percent went to the same school, they drive the same cars, they wear the same suits and they have the same attitudes. They got us into this situation -- and they had a lot of fun doing it," she says.
@yvanehtnioj: Thank you! Fishermen turned overnight stockbrokers fucked over their own country. Women are picking up the pieces, because someone needs to. #gendergapindex
'I wonder if the U.S. isn't still a model of what actually happens when women are afforded basic human rights: A certain level of economic stability is achieved, and then people start complaining that women already have equality, and if they aren't making as much money or holding as many offices, it's probably their own fault.'
I don't wonder. If I had a nickel every time some American putz told me American women were lucky because we were completely equal in the eyes of the law (what about the stuff that falls outside those bounds? Oh how bad can it be? Your clitoris wasn't mutilated, was it? You're right. Hurray!) #gendergapindex
I'm really bummed that the the country with the narrowest gender gap is a complete wreck economically. The two are in NO WAY connected, but it still bums me out. #gendergapindex
@judgingamy: Don't worry, the president's still a dude and the PM was preceded by a dude. If anyone blames her, just turn around and blame them. #gendergapindex
@judgingamy: Well the current PM was voted in as a kind of giant 'fuck you' to the guys who screwed up Iceland's economy. So the two aren't just unconnected--one is a reaction against the other! #gendergapindex
@rah29: She was also just voted in this year. So it's like saying Obama caused our economic cluterfuck: the facts just don't support it. #gendergapindex
While I'm pretty happy to see that NZ is right up there, again, it disturbs me how far the gap is between us and Australia (not to mention USA!).
And now that Helen Clark no longer leads us, I guess I can probably put my World Leader Support behind Johanna Sigurðardóttir. Whatta woman! #gendergapindex
11/18/09
But then again, I haven't studied this and it was before coffee.
11/18/09
Coming home to dishes done and dinner made is nice but he blew my mind the other night when he told me he wanted to stay home with our future kids. I am a lawyer and I love my job though recently I've started worrying that I wouldn't be ready for kids until it was too late. The thought that he'd want to stay home with the kids never crossed my mind (even though he's MUCH better equiped to spend ten hours a day with children).
The rethinking of gender roles could be the silver lining of a crap economy.
11/18/09
@PetiteGal: Hm. It's a class issue, perhaps- are girls being encouraged to go into white collar fields, or are people who have the access and education to get white collar jobs more likely to support equality, or at least make a show of it? I really don't know.
In terms of the types of jobs I'm talking about, I'd say there definitely is a physical strength bias as well as a protect-the-little-women mentality that helps keep these jobs gender specific, as well as very limiting concepts about what is "manly" or appropriate work for men. The former biases ignore the fact that women are much more likely to experience violence in their lives already, as well as the fact that domestic work is often just as labor intensive, if not more so, than traditionally male labor-oriented jobs. Those are really based on nothing more than gender roles and they aren't challenged by making a woman the head of the County Works Department, because no matter how capable she is she will still be seen as a token or an exception. The only way to change them is by employing more women and more men in jobs that are currently seen as belonging almost completely, if not completely, to the other gender.
@winner: That's awesome. My bro stayed at home for a couple years with his kids and it really does help people reconsider their own notions of what is and isn't appropriate. I hope you're right about the silver lining.
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
She has just been very clear that we do not want - for example - separate divorce laws based on religious beliefs (muslim or other) in our country, nor do we condone, say, female circumcision.
If the law says that you are not allowed to spank children, you cannot ask for an exception based on your religious beliefs.
If you think that boys and girls should not go to school together, or that girls should not participate in e g swimming education (mandatory!), or be taught religion (the subject treats all religions as well as humanism/athesim equally in our schools) or find out about where babies come from (mandatory as well) - well, forget it.
Don't try to use religion as an argument - REGARDLESS of whether you're christian (any flavour), muslim, judaeic, mormon, scientologist, bahai... (And home schooling does not exist in our country.)
I might as well ask if you have a bias against women? Black women? Immigrants? Highly educated women? Liberals? Female ministers? People who consider religious beliefs (or lack thereof) to be something personal and private? Female muslims who do not believe in sharia? Any or all of the above?
Then you'd find good company in some of the crazy right-wing christians in our country - they don't like her type either.
But I'm willing to assume that you just forgot to look up the facts.
11/18/09
11/18/09
Separation of church and state is one thing. Protecting women against violence, I am absolutely for that. But saying that Muslims who pray 5 times a day or wear the veil are limiting their opportunities and preventing themselves from "assimilating" is promoting hegemony.
Also, the minster's mother is Muslim but she was raised as non-religious.
11/18/09
I agree with her that people misread what "freedom of religion" means, genital mutilation and other anti female practices are things to not be tolerated in any society. But Muslims who live the book of Koran are limiting their opportunities? Living the word of the Koran can manifest a belief ranging from conservative to progressive feminism. She's painting Islam with one brush.
She also subscribes to the 'complaining about discrimination is making one's self into a victim' school of thinking. She believes Muslims marginalize themselves. How can someone who believes that take the issues/complaints of immigrants and/or minorities seriously?
11/19/09
#tips
11/18/09
10/28/09
Other countries have a more collectivist mindset. An Icelandic with no plans to have kids is unlikely to think she should get something for another woman's childbearing. Raising children is a collective responsibility. Good family leave policies and subsidized day care help children grow up to be responsible adults. And that benefits the childfree because it ups the odds they'll have a nice nurse when they're in the home.
We're all in this together. #gendergapindex
10/28/09
"67% of countries were found to be improving in terms of gender equality, 33% are getting worse," but wouldn't this be the case if all the countries were objectively improving as well, since it seems to be referring to movement in the rankings, and not the actual markers used to make the rankings?
Forbes used the same language, so I'm not sure if I'm just missing something here... #gendergapindex
10/28/09
10/28/09
I thought it wasn't perfectly clear from the Forbes page exactly what they were referring to, but maybe I'm just really sleep deprived. #gendergapindex
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
And just because this deserves to be on Jez, I was reminded of my favorite quote ever from FP magazine:
"The crisis is man-made," claims banker Halla, 40, who like all Icelanders, is only addressed by her first name. "It's always the same guys," she says. "Ninety-nine percent went to the same school, they drive the same cars, they wear the same suits and they have the same attitudes. They got us into this situation -- and they had a lot of fun doing it," she says.
[blog.foreignpolicy.com]
(I also recommend their piece on The Death of Macho in re: the recession.) Erm, that is all. #gendergapindex
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
I don't wonder. If I had a nickel every time some American putz told me American women were lucky because we were completely equal in the eyes of the law (what about the stuff that falls outside those bounds? Oh how bad can it be? Your clitoris wasn't mutilated, was it? You're right. Hurray!) #gendergapindex
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
10/28/09
While I'm pretty happy to see that NZ is right up there, again, it disturbs me how far the gap is between us and Australia (not to mention USA!).
And now that Helen Clark no longer leads us, I guess I can probably put my World Leader Support behind Johanna Sigurðardóttir. Whatta woman! #gendergapindex