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Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel

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Mr. Mittens (né nodoubt9203)
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
coincidentially i'm doing my final project for women's studies on middlesex with a focus on intersexuality.
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JessaFields
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
If God doesn't make mistakes, then I guess Clark was going against God when she let Tyra dye her hair a different color than she was born with.
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JLady
11/22/08

@JessaFields: Not to mention all that bronzer she used.
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JLady
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Today I think I'm a velvety green. Tomorro (being Friday), I'm more likely to be a melon-pink :)
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BlondeGrlz
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Gender isn't black and white, it's pink and blue, which is why REAL Christians don't wear purple.
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JLady
11/20/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Ah, I always wondered why my agnostic-self was so attracted to purple.
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LadyNo Fondles Sweaters
11/20/08

@BlondeGrlz is having a BlondeBoyz!: Clearly you've never attended an Advent service.
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funnyface
11/20/08

@LadyNo Fondles Sweaters: LOL, I was just thinking that. I love liturgical colors and tend to notice if churches have the wrong colors up. I love that green="ordinary time."
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Liz11685
11/20/08

@LadyNo Fondles Sweaters: Thats what I was thinking. Growing up Catholic we had TONS of purple during Advent both in the church and purple candles in our Advent wreath at home.

It was my favorite color. I am now an atheist.
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SisterMaryMartha
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Make Clark- ASSPLODE.
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million.dollar.mouth.
11/20/08

@SisterMaryMartha: Assplode Prolapse?
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SisterMaryMartha
11/20/08

@sammyboombaladdy: Oooh- that just gave me a horrible image. Egadickeck. My bum recoils!
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but there's an "objective" system for measuring and categorizing a baby's genital size..if something's out of proportion, it used to be (and maybe still is) that the doctors would whisk the baby away and "correct it" without consulting the parents etc.
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kityglitr
11/20/08

@Mkp-hearts-nyc: I'm actually considering creating a contract with my doctor just in case something like this happens. It frightens the hell out of me. I want any child that's coming out of my body treated with respect. If there is an intersex issue at birth that does not threaten the kid's health, then we'll cross that bridge when the kid is able to tell us what he/she would like to do. It's only fair.
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funnyface
11/20/08

@Mkp-hearts-nyc: They aren't allowed to do ANYTHING without parental consent anymore, and if they do, sue. Period.

My hubs is a pediatrician, and it is true that there are concrete measures for testicle size-- I learned this the hard way when out at a bar with a group of peds, wearing a chunky beaded necklace. I was informed that the necklace reminded the docs of the beads they use to compare testicle size. Apparently the size of testicles can be used to diagnose endocrine problems.
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Her Grace
11/20/08

@kityglitr: That's a really awesome thing to do, and as much as an anonymous person can do so, I highly encourage the motion!
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TexasCrude
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Also, I just want to say that it's moronic people like Clark who go and preach the misinterpreted word of God from the mountains and make the rest of us actually look like evangelical tools, that I'm too embarrassed to admit I actually have religion.

God brings out plenty in people. In the most obvious case, the manical but some people live by the word of God as it was written, through love and kindness and I HATE that ig'nant fools act as our bumper sticker.
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hellosunshine
11/20/08

@TexasCrude: +1.
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shygirl
11/20/08

@TexasCrude: Thanks for saying that. I'm a Christian (evangelical even) who DOESN'T have the same views as Clark. I'm feeling less and less welcome on Jez... I'm sad that the Jez community welcomes all persuasions - except me. Does it count as girl on girl hate?
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lijakaca
11/20/08

@shygirl: I know it may seem that way sometimes, but (at least for me) there are so many articles etc. talking against religious fundamentalism because the really right-wing, really (what I view as) radical and hateful religious contingent has had a loud voice in American politics and public life for a while, and frankly it's scary.

I think it's more that the groups that represent the American face of religion right now - the very fundamentalist and very intolerant groups - are not welcome here. And when I say represent, I don't think that they're the actual majority, but they seem to shout the loudest and get the most attention (looking on as a Canadian).
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shygirl
11/20/08

@lijakaca: I absolutely get that. And as in TexaxCrude's original comment, that is very frustrating to us non-radical and -hateful types. However there are extreme or fundamentalist devisions of every religion or group. We as intelligent, educated and thinking women are able to separate those extremes from the larger whole. That courtesy is shown to many groups by this community - just not to Christians. It is becoming tiring. This is supposed to be an open-minded and accepting community after all.
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Her Grace
11/20/08

@shygirl: I'm sorry you feel that way, but I'm not sure what will be changed. To be frank, I don't see the same lack of courtesy, to use your words, that you do; this is not at all to say that it doesn't exist, but that I can't find it.
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CollegeBookworm
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Oof. Try my favorite one. I'm at a hippie dippie liberal kind of college, and yesterday one of my friends informed me that she doesn't really believe in the concept of gender. Like, your sex is all there is to it. We were sitting around, one liberal straight female, one liberal gay man, and this friend who I assume to be accepting of liberal viewpoints just shooting us down when we tried to explain the concept of gender to her.

Gender as a color wheel is a fabulous concept, and even better than my usual thing about a fluid line.
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LaFemme
11/20/08

@CollegeBookworm: I think that her viewpoints can kind of make sense if you view gender as a social construct. So say, your sex is all there is to it, and how you identify yourself, as a man or woman is based on society telling you how we collectively define male and female, not by an innate love for pink or monster trucks. In that case, it isnt necessarily unaccepting to think that it could be nothing other than natural to be a man by sex who thinks of himself as being "feminine" and identifying as "female" (or vice versa) it is just taking issue with the gender roles that are set by society. Does that make sense?
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CollegeBookworm
11/20/08

@LaFemme: Perhaps you misunderstand what my friend meant- she was saying this as in you cannot be anything beyond your sex. Like, if your sex is female, you are female, and there cannot be anything else. And vice-versa. This doesn't take into account any sort of transgenderism or intersex, doesn't allow any flexibility, etc.

I was disappointed in her, honestly. We have mutual friends who don't quite fit the gender binary, and she just completely ignores that in order to have this perfect little dichotomy that matches up with biology. Even though biology doesn't even have that nice neat binary!
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Cerridwen
11/20/08

@LaFemme: Yeah, but even that is problematic, when you define identity by your plumbing alone. There is so much more to be a "man" or a "woman" or neither that is not inherent in our biology.
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cassis LOL
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
In my Feminism and Culture class in college, we had a speaker...I think she was from ISNA (Intersex Society of North America)? She was so great and informative on a pretty ignored topic.
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JLady
11/20/08

@cassis: We talked a lot about how gender, sexuality and sex existed on a continuum in by Renaissance Lit. class. It was really interesting (and frustrating) to hear that the understandings of gender, sex and sexuality 400 years ago were more progressive than they are today.
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sybann
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
Miss Clark is an ignoram-ass. Anyone of moderate intelligence knows gender and attraction is a sliding scale and not an absolute in the animal kingdom - and yes, God doesn't make mistakes. There are GAY muthafrackin dolphins, bitch!
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/20/08

@sybann: And sheep! Which of course, in my first argument with evangelicals in my first year of university, only garnered the response 'well that's because animals don't have a conscience, like humans do.' *head exploded*
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Cerridwen
11/20/08

@sybann: I loved Isis' repsonse to the "God doesn't make mistakes" thing: "Case in point!" She is what she is, she did not choose it, she was born this way, there is no mistake about the fact that she is a woman who happened to be born with different genitalia. There are gay people, gay monkeys, gay dolphins, sexual fluidity happens ALL THE TIME in nature....and if you believe in God, all these supposed "mistakes" were created by him, who is omnipotent.
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AndreaSue
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
This really grinds my gears. These Bible-thumping Evangelical types who run around throwing their sanctimonious God in our faces cannot be reasoned with! You can show Clark all the science in the world, and it wouldn't make a difference. For some reason still unbeknownst to me, religion is STILL the opiate of the masses.
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pantsless economist...access RESTORED
11/20/08

@AndreaSue: I missed that yesterday. Her views don't surprise me because there are plenty of intolerants in the world, but I am more shocked that she would go on national TV and say the things she did to Isis' face. That is really fucked! And not very Christian of her either.

I can't even imagine what it must be like to go through life either as transgender, or with CAH. Everyone deserves to be happy, whether that means having surgery, or accepting yourself as somewhere in the middle of the biological sex spectrum.
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million.dollar.mouth.
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
"God doesn't make mistakes." BULLSHIT. That is all.
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TexasCrude
11/20/08

@sammyboombaladdy: Oh, HE DID. Try Clark's ignorance.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
11/20/08

@TexasCrude: Nope, pretty sure that was intentional.
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dancerevolution
11/20/08

In reply to Gender Is Not Black & White But A Color Wheel
I'm assuming everyone has read 'Middlesex,' yes? It's an amazing peek into the spectrum of sex and gender.

And I think I am fire-engine red today. Maybe tomorrow I'll be light blue. The color-wheel is fun!
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CollegeBookworm
11/20/08

@dancerevolution: That has been on my need-to-read list for AGES. I'm thinking that I'll pick up a copy during winter break. I need something for my plane rides to and from Israel.
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The Queen of No
11/20/08

@dancerevolution: It's quite possibly my favorite book. It reads like an auto-biography and it's so cinematic. It's literally perfect, to me.
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