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Steverino Begins
07/10/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
Just throwing this out there re: the Perez thing: When did the word "faggot" become taboo again? I thought there was an effort in the 90s to reclaim it and strip it of its power, etc. I remember Dan Savage used to have readers write in with "Dear Faggot."

Maybe the gay movement is finally coming full circle and that old approach of "your words don't hurt us, we're going to keep partying anyway, etc." is coming to an end?
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BytheSea
07/10/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
They say gay people are now experiencing our civil rights movement, like the blacks did in the 60s. I think we're at the 70s blaxspolitation movies stage. In ten years, people will be very embarrassed by Bruno and the shrieking queen in Will and Grace, to say nothing of the Queer Eye Guys. Already there are decent, respectable gay characters, but there's in shows like Mad Men and Six Feet Under -- exclusive, high-brow entertainment. (Except for Buffy, thank you Willow and Tara.)

The problem with saying "Don't people know Bruno isn't the majority" is that when someone says that, he's really saying, "I dont' know anyone who thinks Bruno is real," and beneath that he means, "I don't really think Bruno is real." There are plenty of people who think Bruno is real. Didn't Jezebel just cite a survey that stated that 70% of Americans are against gay marriage? Lots of Americans have never met a gay person, or think they haven't, and think gay men are all flamboyant crossdressers who live to fuck. Bruno may be funny to those who are in on the in-jjoke but to the majority of Americans, he's confirming the reason why gay losers don't deserve rights.
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BritneyCanadaWhore
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
this may be a stretch on my part, but based on some things i've read here and there, i'm inclined to believe that perez said that "faggot" was the worst thing he could say to will.i.am because the dude is rumoured to be bi, and is very closeted. if this is true, it would mean that he's acknowledging that being outed is the worst thing one can do to a closeted person: certainly adds an interesting twist to the debate around perez outing people as a political act.
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Steverino Begins
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
I think SBC is just exploiting an obvious communication gap in our country between gays and straights. The mere fact that gay people are so afraid of being incorrectly "portrayed" just proves that lack of communication. Are we still that much of a mystery to the world that we fear people will see this and think, "my god, that's what the gays are like?" The fact is that there are straight people who wallow in their homophobic ignorance and only see groups of gay people once a year at Pride parades--and then we go and use that opportunity to wave our dongs in their faces. It's sort of a satire waiting to happen. Yeah it stings a bit because most gay people aren't on board with the dong waving, but like a good satirist he's exploiting the mistakes on both sides.

I think this movie should be a sort of Call to Gays to improve the dialogue a bit, and come out and talk with your family more and all that grassroots stuff. If people are that "worried" about it, they should see it with some cousins and talk about it over beers or something.
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Edited by Steverino Begins at 07/09/09 9:14 PM Steverino Begins was starred Steverino Begins was unstarred

Steverino Begins
07/09/09

@Steverino Begins: I should add that the dong waving did serve its purpose back in the day. Eh, Pride parades are complicated.
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Dürer's Rhino
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
I'm going to try really hard not to sound angry or condescending, but I, personally, have been working my ass off for LGBT issues, including gay marriage and anti-bullying acts. It really hurts the cause to have people like Perez being an asshat to every friggin' person he encounters. How does that win hearts and minds? How?

As far as Brüno goes, not my cup of tea, but I'm not mad at him. People who don't get SBC are not going to be any more or less offended than they would be if they were in on the joke.
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Edited by Dürer's Rhino at 07/09/09 7:58 PM Dürer's Rhino was starred Dürer's Rhino was unstarred

SBJ
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
Can't we all just watch The Celluloid Closet and call it a bloody day?

OR

The least we can all do is pretend that Chuck Bass was somehow involved.

OR

Nevermind gay stereotypes in the media, what about that poor gay who was beat nearly to death by the cops in Houston last week? (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/05/us/05texas.html?ref=us)

WHAT THE FRENCH TOAST!?!?! NOT OK.
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BAngieB
07/09/09

@SBJ: CHUCK BASS IS GAY?
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angelina jolie-laide is a gaudy tulip
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
David Rakoff made a similar point on Salon today: http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2009/07/09/bruno_rakoff/index.html
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vulcanized
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
After Perez basically admitted on VH1 that he purposely pushed NPH and Lance Bass out of the closet, I hated him. I don't how somebody can wave rainbow flags with one hand while shoving people out to expose what should be a personal decision with the other. He either is uncomfortable with homosexuality or he's such a whore that he'll betray his own community for more page hits. This latest event leads me to believe it's the former, but both answers are sad.
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waltzngmatlda
07/09/09

@vulcanized: agreed. he's using part of his person (the fact that he's gay) as a publicity tool, same as any 'pop' star.
it's just sad that he's selling himself so cheaply and on such a personal thing as his sexuality.
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wtfox?!
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
The problem with using stereotypes to mock stereotypes is that at least part of your audience isn't going to understand that humor is involved. And yeah, Dennis Lim, there are actually people in America who have absolutely no sense of humor when it comes to homosexuality. They're way too busy being threatened by it, by taking even self-referential camp and humor as utterly serious, legitimate exhibits of "what gay people do." And they're also far too busy believing that homosexuality = pedophilia/bestiality/incest to bother with parsing an intricate satirical argument.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
07/09/09

@wtfox?!: But I do not believe SBC needs to change his humor because the most stupid will not get it. I hate the dumbing down of America. (I don't think that's what you're advocating, just saying.)
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wtfox?!
07/09/09

@BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs....: Oh, definitely not advocating the dumbing down of America--that would make my life a lot more difficult than it already is. I just think it's incredibly naive (or charitable) of Lim to assume that, surely, no one is so stupid as to believe Bruno is an accurate portrayal of gay men. Like, I just had a whole horde of this sort of person picket my campus in May, so I know they exist.
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malvones
07/09/09

@wtfox?!: I think that the people pissed off here, or at least bothered, are the grassroots gays that are fighting for every vote to keep Props. 8 off ballots. I can't tell you if Perez or SBC will have an effect on the easily swayed, but, as you mentioned, they are out there, and they do vote.
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stoprobbers
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
We're kind of in the middle of a big gay rights moment right now. When Cohen was doing Bruno sketches and segments with Da Ali G Show, it was side-splittingly funny. But gay rights were a on a backburner, because there was 9/11 and Iraq. We weren't in the middle of a gigantic battle for gay rights. I think the movie is, if anything, badly-timed. Three years ago, or three years from now we would have (or might have) a different take.
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Penny
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
Like anything else, the idiots will allow it to reify their bigotry and everyone else will laugh at the funny shit.

But also, there's a difference between playing on a stereotype and using words KNOWN to be offensive to certain groups in a non-humorous (insulting) way.
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inabook
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
This is why, instead of talking about the ways in which these guys annoy or piss me off, I simply DON'T talk about them unless the subject has already been raised. I vote with my wallet/pageviews-- I won't put any money towards Bruno, and I won't go to Hilton's page.

Exposing and mocking stereotyped people is great-- but using a flouncy gay minstrel show to do so is not.
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Samanthrax
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
Maybe he thinks the will.i.am is homophobic and that's why he chose to use that term- because he knew it would bother him to the core. It's certainly not an excuse, but I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how, if he doesn't think being gay is a bad thing, it would be appropriate to use that derogatory term as an insult.
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Penny
07/09/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: He may, but that still doesn't excuse it (like you said). Also, at least for me, there's a difference between "faggot," "fag," "faggy," etc. depending on who is using them, when they are using them and to whom they are referring. I've never heard anyone use "faggot" in a mock-insulting way. "Fag" maybe, and always among gay male friends, i.e. "OMG sometimes I'm such a fag."
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Samanthrax
07/09/09

@Penny: Yeah, you're right. I have got to stop trying to rationalize the irrational.
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Penny
07/09/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: You weren't rationalizing, you were empathizing, never a bad thing.
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BlowJoy
07/09/09

@Samanthrax: Perez assumed that as a Black man in hip hop, Will.i.am would be horrified by being called a faggot. I see it as more of a racist comment/assumption than a homophobic one, actually.
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Penny
07/09/09

@BlowJoy: Totally true. You're so wise.
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sarah0220 (please don't take my star)
07/09/09

@BlowJoy: I never looked at it like that. Either way, it's a lose-lose for Perez Hilton.
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Samanthrax
07/09/09

@BlowJoy: Good point.
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BlowJoy
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
I view it like this... I hope to live in a society where if anyone were to ever say something hateful against someone for being X (different race, gay, disabled, whatever), it would be considered SO absurd by the status quo that it would just be laughed at. And by laughing at someone's hateful statements, brushing them off as too ridiculous to be taken seriously, you basically take their power away. So I don't find Bruno offensive. There is such power in humor. (Then again, humor is very subjective.)

Perez on the other hand, he's just an asshat.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
07/09/09

@BlowJoy: Once again, I am Team Blowjoy!
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stuff.mcgee
07/09/09

In reply to Perez Hilton, Brüno, And "The Gay-Panic Offense"
You know, this makes me think back to what Tina Fey said in "Mean Girls" (don't judge, I love that movie) about girls not calling each other sluts because it makes it acceptable for guys to call us that. It seems simple, but I think more of us tried to follow that logic across the board with all slurs, we wouldn't have movies like Bruno. As it stands, I understand why a heterosexual man feels like he can make a movie like Bruno and "get away" with it, as slurs and stereotypes of all sorts are so prevalent in our culture.
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