Jezebel 
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New York, 7:28 AM
Sat Nov 28
29 posts in the last 24 hours
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02/13/09
That said, though I agree with everyone's outrage completely, totally, and wholeheartedly, I don't think that games like this should be censored.
LET ME EXPLAIN! I am very anti-censorship, and though this game makes me physically ill to think about, the company still has the RIGHT to make it. However, I still think it should not exist. Contradiction? Kind of, but, I think the solution to this is not to force companies like this to stop production of their weirdo games, but to work (as we do already) to change the public's attitude on rape, and porn in general. It is the thinking behind the game that should be fought, not the game itself.
(please don't kill me)
02/13/09
On the other hand, some speech is so useless we decline to protect it. "Obscenity" is one category, and while its definition is notorious for being a moving target, it is defined as speech that appeals predominantly to prurient interests, depicts sexual conduct in a patently offensive way, and lacks serious literary, scientific, political, or artistic value. That type of speech can be limited by law; for example, you can't put naked women on billboards, but you can put them in magazines.
In this case, a combination of limiting where and how this shit can be sold, and the outrage and protests of women (and men) like ourselves over its existence at all, in theory will serve to minimize availability as well as open up lines of communication about WHY it is so offensive. And that, in turn, should lower demand for this shit and increase sensitivity, awareness, compassion, and respect for those who are offended.
02/13/09
A lot of the early comments were HORRIBLE. And a lot of the posters got very upset, some near tears. Then some possibly sane Kotaku commentators come all riled up about free speech, either not realizing or not caring that the first 5 pages had some Jezzies near tears. Out of context, a handful of comments got a little man-hating but they were nothing compared to the anti-woman posts that had come before.
02/13/09
Of course it should not be sold on amazon or overstock, and I'm glad they were notified and it was taken down, but the concept itself does not bother me. I'm a girl and I've masturbated to hentai, esp submission "rape" fantasy hentai, many times. I find it very arousing. This isn't weird or wrong or a form of sexual deviancy; "rape" fantasy is the most common fantasy for women. And just like the Clive Owen domination daydreams in my head, I know that the situations portrayed here are not real, that no one is being hurt, and that I'm in complete control of the situation - the lack of being exactly what makes rape so terrible.
So altho I agree that this should be removed from such sites and should only be available on j-list, 4chan, and the like, I don't get the outrage that it exists.
Yes, Japan has sex issues, and this is targeted towards men, and porn is notoriously demeaning towards women, but personally? I'd love to play this fantasy game. Do they have any with tentacles?
02/13/09
I am neither as erudite nor as educated about these issues as many of the other women on this site, so I will do my best to paraphrase the very excellent points many of them made yesterday.
Men who enjoy violating and causing pain to women, whether real or imagined, are deviant, misogynistic, and frankly terrifying. If you fantasize about violating unwilling women, you have problems and the answer isn't masturbation, or rape porn, it's therapy. It's NOT normal or okay. Sorry. Likewise, child porn that features computer-generated children is problematic, because enjoying watching children in sexual acts is wrong, regardless of whether an actual child is harmed in the making of said porn. It was pointed out yesterday, by SarahMC, I believe, that the "okay-ness" of rape exemplified by this game, even if it doesn't cause someone to rape, DOES tend to normalize and make more acceptable that type of behavior. So when that person serves on a jury or works as a police officer, raises a daughter, works with women who may or may not have suffered an actual sexual assault, he is less appalled and disgusted by its manifestation in the real world, and more tolerant and willing to make excuses or justifications. He is capable of seeing himself in the perpetrator, and he brushes off the perpetrator's behavior because he sees it every day and whacks off to it. Part of him is impressed.
Having never had a rape fantasy myself, I can't comment from a personal perspective. However, as you noted, when both partners are consenting, it's not actually rape. It's pretend rape. It's safe. It's agreed upon. Like other sex acts tinged with violence, either partner can stop at any time. It's sex, it's not an attempt to exert complete and total power over another person. I like getting my hair pulled as much as the next girl, but the men who have had the privilege of doing so would sooner hack off their own balls with a rusty spoon than force me to do anything I didn't want to do. "Rape" fantasies and actual rape are very different animals. I just happen to think that this game bears far more resemblance to the latter than the former.
02/13/09
I can't blame Amazon/Overstock/Ebay for stocking that stuff, as long as they removed it promptly when complaints were made. I think it is a good idea when you see something truly offensive to realize that until someone reports it, it will stay up. Last month, I reported a Yahoo Answers user with a similar feeling about rape. If I hadn't been angry enough to track down contact info, the guy would still be posting.
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02/13/09
Next time something like this happens ladies remember don't feed the trolls. Maybe I just have thick skin and a better ability to ignore stupidity, but if we had just ignored them they would have gone away and contrary to SarasMC's comment I don't believe we should read those types of comments to remember that men hate us and want to do terrible thing to us. I already knew that some men held those believes before this posting so reading those comments would have done nothing for me.
Never let a complete stranger (in cyber space nonetheless) have that much power over your psyche. The usually respectful Jezebel commenters began to rant about the evils of men, knowing very well that generalizing and entire group of people based on a few ignorant comments will get us nowhere.
Maybe sometime next week one of the editors can start a post on rape in the media because I would've really liked to have had a discussion on rape and violence in video games compared to rape and violence in porn and why some feminists are okay with one but not the other.
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02/13/09
I did not engage a conversation with anyone making offensive comments. I barely made any comments at all. I did not even log onto Jezebel until after 4pm when most of the damage had already been done.
"Why don't you start the discussion you're looking for on your own blog."
Because I don't want to, I was merely making a sugesstion. Do you have any more questions for me?
You seem to have a habit of lashing out on people who aren't even attacking you. If you're still upset about yesterday that's fine, but don't direct your anger towards me.
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02/13/09
I fully understand and agree with what Jessi Ramsey was trying to explain but I still stood by my statement. My mind is fully open more so than you who seems to think I am now an ally of the Kotaku misogynists because I called out the Jezebel commenters who were making their own offensive comments.
I can listen to two sides of an argument and then formulate my own ideas but it seems that you and others only like to listen to the side of the argument that is the same as yours, an anyone who has a different view can fall off the face of the earth.
02/13/09
You know I have come to the realization that not everyone is going to react the same way to things. I react more level headed and try to think things out before I respond. Others tend to react with their emotions in the heat of the moment. And that is what happened to many of the commenters yesterday. I also tend to ignore comments and people who I know are only trying to provoke a strong reaction in me but for others it is hard for them ignore.
This is what open mindedness is all about it is realizing people have different viewpoints and experiences and taking those differences into consideration. Too many times here on Jezebel there is a push for universal thought as if we should all have the same opinion on matters. But the discourse here on Jezebel is turning sour when people are constantly belittling others who pose no threat.
Sometimes people need to call themselves out.
02/13/09
"wow, just had a chance to read some of these comments! Ok Jezzies, you do know that some these folks are trolls just trying to get a rise out of you right? Coming on a site for women (for the most part) and arguing that rape isnt that bad? Who says stuff that f*ckin stupid anyway. If it isn't that bad then you wouldn't mind it happening to your mum, sister, aunt, girlfriend (lol, GF....yeah right)....oh you would....well why is that?"
02/14/09
I wasn't going to get into it bashing you, but your comment about your levelheadedness compared to some people's emotional reaction is incredibly condesending. No one announced they were a troll, you assumed that, which could easily be an emotional reaction to information you find too upsetting to process.
02/13/09
02/13/09
I don't know why, but it is interesting. the feds have something against gaming? too much violent imagery/language/etc. on that site or something?
02/13/09
02/13/09
It seems that this topic has opened up some very real wounds for a lot of Jezzies (myself included). I know it is not necessarily my place to say this, but perhaps we could open a thread about rape survivors. It would be nice to have a bit of a balance considering the emotion this story has unleashed.
Again, I am terribly sorry if I am speaking out of turn. I just hear so much pain in these comments.
02/13/09
(You can also always email the editors if you'd like to see posts on a certain topic - I'm not trying to shut you down, but if you want an editor to actually see a comment the best way to reach them is email :)
02/13/09
Thank you!
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02/13/09
I've had a low opinion of Amazon for years now, and inasmuch as I am aware there are hundreds of thousands of products they carry / sell, I find it ridiculous that there isn't some common sense standard. Rape and pseudo-snuff films for sale?
I'd be scared to even take a look at that "Marketplace"
02/13/09
@Scout: It's not like the Marketplace is rape game after rape game. It's a reasonable place. Sometimes, shit slips through. It happens, and Amazon dealt with it accordingly.
02/13/09
I don't see why Amazon is to blame for horrible things other people post on their website any more than Gawker Media is to blame for horrible things other people have posted on their website in the pre-disemvoweling days. I believe there is a benefit to having a free and open marketplace of ideas, even if it means that occasionally horrible ones get caught in there.
02/13/09
02/13/09
rppysts.rg/rp-vds/fr-prn-rp.html
bnndrps.cm
NSFW
rlly dn't gt t.....
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Big hugs to all those still trying to find peace and resolution. Miz Jenkins gots your back.
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