They still have yet to have an Asian or Indian person as a cast member to my knowledge. (unless they had one during the 80s when no one was watching). Glad there are more women now, kinda wish they would ad a black female cast member too cause I'm getting sick of seeing Kenan in drag.
Oh, let me tell you how much we POC love to be told that our experiences and authenticity as a POC are somehow "invalid" or "read as white" due to our skin color! Is it so hard to fathom that just like people of European decent, our hair(and texture), skin, and eye color can also run the spectrum? Why is it always assumed that if an individual has "light skin"(read: not representative of what the preconceived notion of what [insert minority group here] looks like) that they "must have one parent who is white?" I can "pass for white," (which is a troubling concept in itself, not to mention a loaded statement) in some areas of this country, in other places, not so much. What if I told you that both of my parents are non-white? "Oh, but you don't 'look' [insert ethnicity here]!" is what I hear all of the time. Should I ride up on a camel or a magic carpet whilst eating a kabab next time, just so you can have visual, stereotypical cues to help you out? I am not unaware of the problems(within the community and outside) that face my darker-skinned brethren and sistren, but let's not turn this into a divisive, who-has-a-more-difficult-time conversation.
Furthermore, two FEMALE comics were just hired by the big bad mainstream media. Let's celebrate that.
@Danielle Kouyoumdjian: That two female comics were hired is being celebrated, but it bears pointing out that light skinned minorities who can pass for white are privileged and chosen over those who are unambiguously "ethnic" It sounds like you are pretty oblivious to your darker-skinned sistren; this one doesn't appreciate you saying, on behalf of people of color, that we should sweep light skin privilege under the rug here.
@Hana Maru: Actually, I am far from oblivious, but thank you for your penetrating insight based on a short paragraph posted on the internet. As I said, I think that being told that I know nothing of oppression or discrimination because I happen to have lighter skin than members of my OWN family is just as offensive and and inflammatory as being told that having darker skin and appearing to be unambiguously "ethnic" is reason enough to not be hired for a role on a television program. Different skin tones(from the same color wheel), same struggle. Why do you feel the need to be divisive here?
@Danielle Kouyoumdjian: You're demonstrating privilege blindness yet again. We do not have the same stuggle if you pass for white and I can't, if you can see folks of your color in the media and I can't. Me pointing out your obliviousness, in these two instances is not "just as offensive" as actual discrimination.
Your "poor me!" line about the supposed Jezebel party line is derivative of many trolls before you. What a joke. I'm out.
@Hana Maru: I'm hardly a troll. I've been around for some time, and I comment fairly regularly. Isn't a troll someone who registers for a forum just to fire off an offensive, baiting comment, and then disappears?
@Hana Maru: As I said, I do not ALWAYS pass for white. Reading comprehension is not your strong suit, is it?
Here. Let me refresh your memory:
I can "pass for white," (which is a troubling concept in itself, not to mention a loaded statement) in some areas of this country, in other places, not so much. What if I told you that both of my parents are non-white? "Oh, but you don't 'look' [insert ethnicity here]!" is what I hear all of the time.
But that doesn't mean that I ever see representations of my "folks" in media. Catherine Zeta Jones(who is white) has dark hair like me. Does that mean that she is representative of my "folks?" Hell no. Kristin Davis has brown eyes like me. Does that mean that my large almond-shaped eyes are represented in Sex and the City and in her advertisements for Ahava Dead Sea Cosmetics? Hell no. I can never manage to find makeup that fits my skin tone(lighter than my father's, but still significantly darker and more olive-toned than the models that smile down from the L'Oreal display) at the drugstore, or eyebrow pencils that work for my eyebrows. I've had salespeople inform me that my hair color(glossy black) "does not exist in nature," and that the light brown shade "will work just as well" for my eyebrows. Hairstylists have often asked me if I had "considered" straightening my unruly, thick and curly hair. Hairstylists have butchered my hair because "they don't know how to work with it." I am often asked to be a spokesperson for my entire race, especially after 9-11 and, given the American predilection toward lumping everyone from the Middle East in the "Islamic Fundamentalist" category, I am often asked what I think about "my people blowing up the Twin Towers." The ignorant blowhards that have hurled every vile racial slur and epithet in my direction haven't cared that I am not as dark as my father, or Osama bin Laden. I am still "the other," the undesirable element, a "potential sleeper cell." I've been pulled aside for the "random" security inspections while flying more times than I can remember, especially when I fly overseas to visit my family in Lebanon. Nobody cared that my skin was lighter than yours when I was teased mercilessly in school to the point that I adopted a more "American" first name by the time I reached high school like so many of my kin. People are constantly amazed that I am Middle Eastern AND Christian, and then I become a "credit to my race," and become slightly more "acceptable," "but never enough to date their sons!"
Do you want to tell me again just how much privilege that I enjoy? No, really. I'd love for you to discount my life's experience as a foreign born woman of color. I'd love for you to tell me again that I couldn't "possibly know what oppression looks like."
@Hana Maru: Yes, it's great that two new women were hired (to replace the two who are apparently being bumped– Casey and Michaela). But now there's so little visual diversity on a show whose backbone is impressions of (diverse) people, it makes me wonder why they don't just pay Wiig a bunch of money to do every single female role. Or cut out all the women and turn it into Kids in the Hall.
SNL really, really needs more people of color. And probably behind the scenes as well. Ironic -- and sad -- that this counterculture Boomer show is not too far off on-camera and in the writer's room, colorwise, from the pre-1969 variety shows that they supposedly rebelled against.
I was going to comment on how all the female cast members are blurring into the same half-smiling thin brown-haired women, but then all the boys except Kenan look like they could have been fathered by the same doughy brunet father.
Please for the love of god don't hire new women if no one's going to give them anything to do! I hate to say it, but the Belushi-esque new kid with the curly hair is the only recent stand-out. Of course, it must help that he's been in twice as many skits as the others.
@HeatherNumber1: "Belushi-esque new kid with the curly hair". That's just it-- in my head, I call him Baby Belushi. He's funny, but how much of that is the subconscious Belushi-SNL-Baby Belushi association?
Am I the only one who noticed that last season, once SNL had lost Tina Fey and Maya Rudolph, and Amy Poehler was on maternity leave, there was a sudden, sharp increase in "oh no two guys are going to kiss" skits? The teenage, schoolyard homophobia skits were ridiculous. Let's hope more awesome funny women will inject a bit of smart back into the show.
@Luckwouldhaveit: Yes, there was a weird frat boy quasi-gay thing going on. Which is occasionally funny (and hot) but pretty offensive when it crops up four times in one episode.
@HeatherNumber1: To be fair, I think there was one show in particular where they got really obvious and hammy about it because it was right after Prop 8 was passed.
I suppose this is good, but I'll be more surprised when they hire an unattractive female comedian more than once every two decades. Or - gasp! - an overweight one. Fat is only funny when it's guys, amirite?
@truckasaurus is jackie jormp-jomp: YES! How the hell have they never had a large female comedian? The only argument I've heard is that there aren't enough overweight women in the public eye for them to parody – but as you mentioned they don't seem to have a problem with fat guys in drag.
@truckasaurus is jackie jormp-jomp: This is precisely what I was thinking. Like both of those women: they are fucking gorgeous. In comedy, and certainly with SNL, this is nothing new. I'm not saying that the show has never had plain ladies or hot guys, but look at Jane Curtain vs. John Belushi, Julia Louis-Dreyfus vs. Joe Piscopo, Jan Hooks vs. Jon Lovitz, Molly Shannon vs. Will Ferrell, Maya Rudolph vs. Horatio Sanz, etc.
Also, like you mention, there has never been a fat woman on the show. Sometimes the bigger men play fat women (I'm thinking of Sanz as "Carol") but this is often done in a mocking tone.
@HeatherNumber1v @Beauregard: So true. Chris Farley, Horatio Sanz, John Belushi, Keenan Thompson - all of these big dudes have had skits written ABOUT their weight. It was an asset to them in terms of their career on SNL!
About the only traditionally "not pretty" female cast member I can think of is Rachel Dratch (who I think is totally adorable). mostly bit roles on the show and was even written out of 30 Rock by NBC execs in favor of Jane Krakowski.
But I also can't help noticing that a whole lot of the POC they've hired in the last 10 years have read white or close to it.
I understand that visually a person may look white, but that doesn't make them not a person of color. It really depends on how they identify personally, and if Pedrad identifies as an Iranian or an Iranian-American, then in this country and in this culture she is a person of color, regardless of the shade of her skin.
The mentality of "close to white" is insulting to biracial populations and people of lighter ethnicities. It dismisses the notion that we are who we are, and sets us up to exist only in relation to the white population.
@kixiechic: Except that TV is a primarily visual medium. So while what you said above is absolutely true, anyone flipping to the show is going to immediately be hit with 'Wow, two new skinny white girls,' even if they go on to learn their names and ethnic backgrounds.
The problem is that that it indicates, at least to me, that the producers couldn't find a single qualified female comedian breaking free from a specific beauty mold. I'm not talking quotas or anything – whatever their reasons for hiring more women, it was at least in part because there are so many female celebrities and public figures. So why not account for the celebs and public figures who aren't white, too? Or is Kenan going to play everyone from Oprah to Michelle Obama?
@kixiechic: You're absolutely right, and I'm sorry I didn't make the point more clearly -- or perhaps that I just made an indefensible point.
My logic was that someone really seems to have an aversion to casting obvious POC, which I do think is problematic. Hiring any POC is important, but on an arguably influential TV show, I think visual diversity is, too. I in no way meant to suggest that Pedrad somehow doesn't "count" as a POC, just that there's a pattern there of SNL hiring a lot of European-looking POC alongside only a handful (mostly men) who don't visually blend in with the primarily white cast. And I think that ought to raise some eyebrows, even though I think a lot of those people were terrific additions to the cast, and it truly IS exciting to see an Iranian-American woman on a huge TV show.
Jenny Slate is hilarious and I hope they give her a lot of screen time.
And you're right about overusing Wiig- It was disappointing last season when they hired two new women and still gave her every single part (even bit parts like "woman in crowd #3" or whatever)- they could have given the new cast members a few more breaks. I know there's seniority involved, and she is great, but you know?
Also it would have been nice to have a female cast member to play Michelle Obama, Oprah, Sherri Shepard and other recurring characters instead of you know, putting a wig on Kenan Thompson or asking Maya Rudolph to come back for special occasions. I mean, come on.
"Sklar notes that the addition of Slate and Pedrad "brings the [male to female] ratio to 4:3 – perhaps the best for women in SNL's 35-year history," which is exciting, indeed."
Ahh, but are we sure all the other women will be back? It's not uncommon for SNL to fire cast members over the summer. And poor Abby Elliott has to have been at least considered for the chopping block. She was not getting any traction on the show last year at all.
@Dvora: She got a lot of attention from that Weekend Update skit with Madonna and Angelina Jolie-- she nailed Jolie and made me pay more attention to her in later sketches.
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Furthermore, two FEMALE comics were just hired by the big bad mainstream media. Let's celebrate that.
09/02/09
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09/02/09
Your "poor me!" line about the supposed Jezebel party line is derivative of many trolls before you. What a joke. I'm out.
09/02/09
09/02/09
Here. Let me refresh your memory:
I can "pass for white," (which is a troubling concept in itself, not to mention a loaded statement) in some areas of this country, in other places, not so much. What if I told you that both of my parents are non-white? "Oh, but you don't 'look' [insert ethnicity here]!" is what I hear all of the time.
But that doesn't mean that I ever see representations of my "folks" in media. Catherine Zeta Jones(who is white) has dark hair like me. Does that mean that she is representative of my "folks?" Hell no. Kristin Davis has brown eyes like me. Does that mean that my large almond-shaped eyes are represented in Sex and the City and in her advertisements for Ahava Dead Sea Cosmetics? Hell no. I can never manage to find makeup that fits my skin tone(lighter than my father's, but still significantly darker and more olive-toned than the models that smile down from the L'Oreal display) at the drugstore, or eyebrow pencils that work for my eyebrows. I've had salespeople inform me that my hair color(glossy black) "does not exist in nature," and that the light brown shade "will work just as well" for my eyebrows. Hairstylists have often asked me if I had "considered" straightening my unruly, thick and curly hair. Hairstylists have butchered my hair because "they don't know how to work with it." I am often asked to be a spokesperson for my entire race, especially after 9-11 and, given the American predilection toward lumping everyone from the Middle East in the "Islamic Fundamentalist" category, I am often asked what I think about "my people blowing up the Twin Towers." The ignorant blowhards that have hurled every vile racial slur and epithet in my direction haven't cared that I am not as dark as my father, or Osama bin Laden. I am still "the other," the undesirable element, a "potential sleeper cell." I've been pulled aside for the "random" security inspections while flying more times than I can remember, especially when I fly overseas to visit my family in Lebanon. Nobody cared that my skin was lighter than yours when I was teased mercilessly in school to the point that I adopted a more "American" first name by the time I reached high school like so many of my kin. People are constantly amazed that I am Middle Eastern AND Christian, and then I become a "credit to my race," and become slightly more "acceptable," "but never enough to date their sons!"
Do you want to tell me again just how much privilege that I enjoy? No, really. I'd love for you to discount my life's experience as a foreign born woman of color. I'd love for you to tell me again that I couldn't "possibly know what oppression looks like."
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09/02/09
Please for the love of god don't hire new women if no one's going to give them anything to do! I hate to say it, but the Belushi-esque new kid with the curly hair is the only recent stand-out. Of course, it must help that he's been in twice as many skits as the others.
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Also, like you mention, there has never been a fat woman on the show. Sometimes the bigger men play fat women (I'm thinking of Sanz as "Carol") but this is often done in a mocking tone.
09/02/09
About the only traditionally "not pretty" female cast member I can think of is Rachel Dratch (who I think is totally adorable). mostly bit roles on the show and was even written out of 30 Rock by NBC execs in favor of Jane Krakowski.
09/02/09
I understand that visually a person may look white, but that doesn't make them not a person of color. It really depends on how they identify personally, and if Pedrad identifies as an Iranian or an Iranian-American, then in this country and in this culture she is a person of color, regardless of the shade of her skin.
The mentality of "close to white" is insulting to biracial populations and people of lighter ethnicities. It dismisses the notion that we are who we are, and sets us up to exist only in relation to the white population.
09/02/09
The problem is that that it indicates, at least to me, that the producers couldn't find a single qualified female comedian breaking free from a specific beauty mold. I'm not talking quotas or anything – whatever their reasons for hiring more women, it was at least in part because there are so many female celebrities and public figures. So why not account for the celebs and public figures who aren't white, too? Or is Kenan going to play everyone from Oprah to Michelle Obama?
09/02/09
My logic was that someone really seems to have an aversion to casting obvious POC, which I do think is problematic. Hiring any POC is important, but on an arguably influential TV show, I think visual diversity is, too. I in no way meant to suggest that Pedrad somehow doesn't "count" as a POC, just that there's a pattern there of SNL hiring a lot of European-looking POC alongside only a handful (mostly men) who don't visually blend in with the primarily white cast. And I think that ought to raise some eyebrows, even though I think a lot of those people were terrific additions to the cast, and it truly IS exciting to see an Iranian-American woman on a huge TV show.
09/02/09
09/02/09
And you're right about overusing Wiig- It was disappointing last season when they hired two new women and still gave her every single part (even bit parts like "woman in crowd #3" or whatever)- they could have given the new cast members a few more breaks. I know there's seniority involved, and she is great, but you know?
Also it would have been nice to have a female cast member to play Michelle Obama, Oprah, Sherri Shepard and other recurring characters instead of you know, putting a wig on Kenan Thompson or asking Maya Rudolph to come back for special occasions. I mean, come on.
09/02/09
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Oops, thanks for pointing that out! Will fix!
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Ahh, but are we sure all the other women will be back? It's not uncommon for SNL to fire cast members over the summer. And poor Abby Elliott has to have been at least considered for the chopping block. She was not getting any traction on the show last year at all.
09/02/09