I'd rather be slightly emotionally fucked up and smart than well adjusted and dumb. Let's be honest here, the popular kids at my high school weren't exactly the brightest bulbs in the pack.
Maybe, just maybe they're emotionally stable because they don't know any better, because they're dumb.
That might be the case for some popular people, but the ones that I went to school with are probably permanently fucked from binge drinking in middle school and high school.
Also, most of them made fun of me, though some were very nice, so I can't hate on all of them.
@Shamrockette: Jealous of what? Not being able to binge drink cheap vodka in the basement of somebody whom nobody really likes but whose parents are never home?
I think this study is confusing "popular" with "cool." At least at my school, these were two different things. The cool kids had very few friends -- because nobody was cool enough to be their friends. The popular kids weren't that cool because they'd talk to anyone, and as we know in New York, if you'll let just anyone in, then nobody wants to come.
I just wish I hadn't wasted so much time obsessing about a social scene that, with hindsight, I see is pretty pathetic. At least it's given me a better means of appreciating the social patterns in this town's adults.
I probably won't get over the fact that I was beaten by a Popular with no artistic ability for "Most Artistic." She was a sweetheart, though, so I can't hate.
And I think I could have considered myself "popular" as in, most everyone knew who I was and I stood out. Or does that make me no-no-no-notorious?
@tankearae: I was/am good friends with someone the Populars adore(d). So that always gave me a boost. And really, when I got to high school, the Populars from my junior high started to really like me...the Populars from the other junior high didn't really notice or care, but my part of town was so into itself that we didn't really care.
Our class president/cheerleader captain is a combination of brains, beauty and angry cynicism. She thinks I'm hilarious now, though we used to be at each other's throats. We're a lot alike...but different.
I spoke my mind and got into trouble all the time - I was the only person in the National Honors Society to get detention! So yeah, I was certainly known.
@Skellatrix: Hah - as far as your last paragraph I was part of a group of "smart nerds" that all got suspended from school once. For something really really stupid. So I get what you mean ;p
Me in high school: Angry cynic who was as mean to the popular kids as they sometimes tried to be to me (though they usually just ignored me.) Think Liz Lemon.
Me now: Angry cynic who doesn't really care for anyone.
Well, I'm the same! Can I assume the popular girls are too?
But really, I find it funny that I had to hide myself on facebook because I got sick and tired of getting friend requests from high school people. I got maybe...two or three requests from popular people I wasn't friendly with and I'm still not sure why. The people who did randomly add me tended to be ones that I didn't really talk to, but they definitely weren't what you'd call popular. Most of them seem to be stay at home moms, and they all live in the same area and really seem to be into Jesus. (why did they add me again?)
@tankearae: I think people are desperately curious to know what happened to people they knew as teenagers. It's a form of schadenfreude. I'd be lying if I said I hadn't recently felt pangs of meanness at seeing what had become of most of the "popular" girls at my school. And yet...why do I care?
The popular kids from my high school all married eachother and--I kid you not--the six most popular girls from my class all bought houses within two blocks of eachother in an upper-middle class suburbian development. I'm sure in five years they will all move to the same swank upper class development. Three of the girls had babies within 6 months of eachother. And they all go to the same church.
But any day now, we expect them to branch off and start a cult. The cult of Upper Class German Lutherans.
@I believe in peace, bitch: That's horrifying. I can't imagine being trapped inside my high school self forever like that and unable to leave that ridiculous, insecurity-driving cliquey-ness. It sounds like a Chuck Palahniuk novel...
@Lady Skittlehattington: I saw a photo of my 10 year reunion (20 yr approaching next spring), and a group of about 4 popular girls had all gained 50 pounds in exactly the same way, and their outfits and hair matched.
This isn't about criticizing someone for being overweight, but rather mocking a group of people who never left their hometown or sought other experiences, only sharing the same habits that would result in identical unhealthy qualities.
@Lady Skittlehattington: For the record, I'm not mocking overweight people or minivan drivers. I was making fun of the fact that there is a "study" of this. But whatever, take it how you want.
@BadenBaden: And sometimes they are popular for entirely invalid reasons. See: my high school, where people were popular because they were rich. I'm not surprised either: economic privilege seems to be a pretty good indicator of future success.
@FashionShowAtLunch: And sometimes being rich correlates to those 'valid' reasons. The popular kids at my high school seemed to be popular because they were three-sport athletes who took honors courses and participated in student government. And at least part of the reason they were able to do all those things was that their parents had money for sports camps and SAT tutors and could drive them to activities or buy them a car and all that.
@BadenBaden: Yep. At my school, the popular kids were mostly smart, fairly athletic and generally nice. We weren't the "Mean Girls" everyone sees in movies. I know that happens, but not everywhere. And most all of us graduated from college and are living pretty happy, successful lives.
@BAngieB: There are different kinds of popularity though. There's popularity that has to do with how much people actually like you, and then there's the popularity that has a lot more to do with dominance and power and how salient you are in social circles. I always found it funny that the second type of popularity has almost nothing to do with how much people like you.
Maybe the Swedes were talking about those kids that are popular because everyone actually likes them, not the dominant, bitchy girls that seem to be a universal pain-in-the-ass for everyone who's been through high school ever.
@sanssoucis321: Very true. Everyone's experiences with high school popularity are very different. It doesn't do any of us favors to make blanket statements about the social dynamics of adolescents.
And "jaywords"? Fuck yeah, I'm jaywords. I'm jaywords of the people who received bmw's the day of their sixteenth birthday. However, while I grew up poor, at least I wasn't an asshole to other people.
@FashionShowAtLunch: I hate to ask this, but what are jaywords? I feel like I'm missing out on some important cultural meme here and urbandictionary.com has failed to deliver. Sad day.
"Happy" doesn't necessarily mean "successful" though. A lot of people who never leave their hometowns and work fairly simple jobs seem to be happy; a lot of people who advance in their careers and live in different parts of the country/world have issues that the first group doesn't, and so are more miserable or may at least seem to be.
"Happiness" be damned, I'd still rather have the latter.
@Erda: Ugh, I didn't mean for this to sound classist. I'm trying to think of how to clarify what I meant.
I didn't mean that money and networking skills are what we should strive for (anything but). What I meant was, there's this idea that "living the simple life," that is, not striving for very much, leads to happiness. It's particularly used against women; the whole "women are more miserable now than they used to be, they'd be happier if they just went back in the kitchen" idea is so often thrown out to defeat the idea of female achievement in education and in the workforce.
What I'm saying is that I'll take the cut in my own "happiness" if it means I get to live a more interesting life and achieve more. I wasn't trying to criticize those who don't make this decision, however. I was more trying to point out how our definition of what constitutes "happiness" (hence why I put it in quotes) is rather arbitrary. I know the common societal view of what leads to a "happy, fulfilling" life doesn't necessarily make me feel happy or fulfilled.
We didn't have "popular" kids in my high school. There were just too damn many of us for anyone to have any level of importance; no one knew who anyone else was and if you had a falling out with your group there were 7 million others to transfer over to
I went to a huge high school so we had a few different popular groups. The athletes, the pretty, smart "school leaders," the rich kids. But I think for the most part that, even in high school, if you're able to make friends easily and seem comfortable with yourself, it's a no brainer those traits would carry you through to adult success.
Twelve years out of high school (the one that the high school in Mean Girls was based on - it was shot at our rival school but used our school's colors) I have found this to be quite the opposite.
The most elite cliques of popular kids were usually pretty small and in high school popularity tended to revolve around five main things:
1. Athletic prowess - which after high school is largely irrelevant for all but a couple kids who go on to play college sports and nearly none of those compete after college.
2. Attractiveness - which if it peaks at 16 usually starts fading by 25, especially for athletes who seem to disproportionately gain a lot of weight and/or become slovenly after they stop competing.
3. Partying/Not Studying - not a particularly solid long-term plan; it's harder for an academic underachiever to start on that PhD in astrophysics at 30 than it is for a physics nerd to get their confidence and their looks together by 30.
4. Co-dependence within the clique - if you don't have an identity of your own by the time you leave college you are highly likely to never evolve beyond your hometown, where your "status" loses relevance once all the kids you were "cooler" than move away to do other things.
5. Pettiness/Degrading others - karma is a bitch and popular kids are way outnumbered.
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Maybe, just maybe they're emotionally stable because they don't know any better, because they're dumb.
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Also, most of them made fun of me, though some were very nice, so I can't hate on all of them.
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I think this study is confusing "popular" with "cool." At least at my school, these were two different things. The cool kids had very few friends -- because nobody was cool enough to be their friends. The popular kids weren't that cool because they'd talk to anyone, and as we know in New York, if you'll let just anyone in, then nobody wants to come.
I just wish I hadn't wasted so much time obsessing about a social scene that, with hindsight, I see is pretty pathetic. At least it's given me a better means of appreciating the social patterns in this town's adults.
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And I think I could have considered myself "popular" as in, most everyone knew who I was and I stood out. Or does that make me no-no-no-notorious?
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Our class president/cheerleader captain is a combination of brains, beauty and angry cynicism. She thinks I'm hilarious now, though we used to be at each other's throats. We're a lot alike...but different.
I spoke my mind and got into trouble all the time - I was the only person in the National Honors Society to get detention! So yeah, I was certainly known.
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Me now: Angry cynic who doesn't really care for anyone.
Well, I'm the same! Can I assume the popular girls are too?
But really, I find it funny that I had to hide myself on facebook because I got sick and tired of getting friend requests from high school people. I got maybe...two or three requests from popular people I wasn't friendly with and I'm still not sure why. The people who did randomly add me tended to be ones that I didn't really talk to, but they definitely weren't what you'd call popular. Most of them seem to be stay at home moms, and they all live in the same area and really seem to be into Jesus. (why did they add me again?)
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@JerseyGrrrl: I mean, come on.
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But any day now, we expect them to branch off and start a cult. The cult of Upper Class German Lutherans.
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This isn't about criticizing someone for being overweight, but rather mocking a group of people who never left their hometown or sought other experiences, only sharing the same habits that would result in identical unhealthy qualities.
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Maybe the Swedes were talking about those kids that are popular because everyone actually likes them, not the dominant, bitchy girls that seem to be a universal pain-in-the-ass for everyone who's been through high school ever.
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09/30/09
And "jaywords"? Fuck yeah, I'm jaywords. I'm jaywords of the people who received bmw's the day of their sixteenth birthday. However, while I grew up poor, at least I wasn't an asshole to other people.
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"Happiness" be damned, I'd still rather have the latter.
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I didn't mean that money and networking skills are what we should strive for (anything but). What I meant was, there's this idea that "living the simple life," that is, not striving for very much, leads to happiness. It's particularly used against women; the whole "women are more miserable now than they used to be, they'd be happier if they just went back in the kitchen" idea is so often thrown out to defeat the idea of female achievement in education and in the workforce.
What I'm saying is that I'll take the cut in my own "happiness" if it means I get to live a more interesting life and achieve more. I wasn't trying to criticize those who don't make this decision, however. I was more trying to point out how our definition of what constitutes "happiness" (hence why I put it in quotes) is rather arbitrary. I know the common societal view of what leads to a "happy, fulfilling" life doesn't necessarily make me feel happy or fulfilled.
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The most elite cliques of popular kids were usually pretty small and in high school popularity tended to revolve around five main things:
1. Athletic prowess - which after high school is largely irrelevant for all but a couple kids who go on to play college sports and nearly none of those compete after college.
2. Attractiveness - which if it peaks at 16 usually starts fading by 25, especially for athletes who seem to disproportionately gain a lot of weight and/or become slovenly after they stop competing.
3. Partying/Not Studying - not a particularly solid long-term plan; it's harder for an academic underachiever to start on that PhD in astrophysics at 30 than it is for a physics nerd to get their confidence and their looks together by 30.
4. Co-dependence within the clique - if you don't have an identity of your own by the time you leave college you are highly likely to never evolve beyond your hometown, where your "status" loses relevance once all the kids you were "cooler" than move away to do other things.
5. Pettiness/Degrading others - karma is a bitch and popular kids are way outnumbered.
09/30/09
09/30/09
09/30/09