forricherorpoorer

posts about #forricherorpoorer more →
Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
Wait, What? Do That Many Men Really Prefer Women Pretty & Poor?

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

Chocolate Sex Bunny
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
It's true. Women get the short end of the stick in all things related to children and divorce and are much more likely to be impoverished as a result of both.

Please ladies, read "The Feminine Mistake" by Leslie Bennets and "The Price of Motherhood" by Ann Crittenden.

It really opens your eyes...I never looked at marriage and motherhood the same way again after reading these books.

Although my mind was made up already that I definitely wouldn't be participating in either. Especially motherhood.

I'll also admit, these books and a riveting Oprah show on SAHM's who ended up in the poor house after a divorce, have really made me think twice about this notion that a woman who depends on a man for everything can still call herself a "feminist".

*prepares for an onslaught*
Reply

nellicat
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
As a divorced Mom of 2, I had to declare bankruptcy because I could neither afford nor sell the family home, which I was "awarded" in the divorce.

Once I am clear of that debt, I will EVENTUALLY be better off financially, because I don't have to support my spendthrigt ex. I pay child support to him, and we share 50/50 custody.
Reply

nellicat was starred nellicat was unstarred

gerbilsoutofexile...is cheap and easy
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
Aw, if my husband leaves, I'm taking him for everything freaking thing he has. After watching my friend struggle to pay her bills and take care of her son while her deadbeat ex flies to Vegas and has fun, I don't care if it is "unfeminist" or not. I'm taking it.
Reply

Brigit
01/26/09

@gerbilsoutofexile.notsobad!: DO SO.

When my 'rents divorced, my mom got me, my sis, and the car. My dad got everything else. And bitched about child support. He lived in our 3 bedroom house while we lived in one bedroom at grandma's house.
Reply

Brigit was starred Brigit was unstarred

GoldenRatioφ (aka -girl11)
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
I've used stuff like this to explain to goldenboy why I'd consider getting an abortion if I accidentally got knocked up right now. Having kids seems to always be more of a financial and career burden for women- in my case it might entail dropping out of school. But he could support us on his grad student stipend! Of course! The mere fact that child support exists is evidence to him that I have an irrational belief that the burden falls on the woman. And this article isn't even talking exclusively about accidental pregnancies!
Reply

devilchyld22
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
Luckily, I didn't marry my ex. Probably should have, might have made some dough...but then of course that would mean he'd have to have had a job.

When we split I gave him everything (we lived the life of a married couple) and I took the baby. He pays no child support and lives the life of a gypsy. I on the other hand struggle to pay the bills, eat ramen as much as possible and barely make it by. But, I have the baby. Which means, I win.
Reply

devilchyld22 was starred devilchyld22 was unstarred

BobbyBonita
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
I'm living this article right now...my ex-husband is debt-free, off skiing the Swiss Alps and boozing it up in Brussels because I busted my ass to pay off his graduate school and car loans. Meanwhile, pretty much everything I eat comes from a can and I can barely pay rent.

And he says he "got screwed in the divorce." Um yeah, that does not compute.
Reply

BobbyBonita was starred BobbyBonita was unstarred

Ms. Crankypants
01/26/09

@BobbyBonita: Maybe he'll have an unfortunate ski accident.
Reply

Ms. Crankypants was starred Ms. Crankypants was unstarred

Trulymadlyme
01/26/09

@BobbyBonita: Wow. How did he pull that off? Your situation sounds like the most clear cut case for alimony (for education and retraining) since you gave up your time to support him. I'm so sorry.
Reply

Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

BobbyBonita
01/26/09

@trulymadlyme: Basically we (read "he") decided that his loans should be the first to go, while mine were up next. We never made it to the "next" part in our marriage.

Throw some legal factors (no alimony for <10 years in my state, my debts being personal property brought into the marriage) together with a dash of unemployment, and I've brewed a small batch of angst for him.

Lessons learned though! He's out of my life and I'm the better for it.
Reply

BobbyBonita was starred BobbyBonita was unstarred

Trulymadlyme
01/26/09

@BobbyBonita: I'm so sorry. It sounds like such a horrid situation and I know it offers little solace, but good luck and I'm rooting for you to show that jack ass who's the boss!
Reply

Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

oh.geez.
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
To all those who said,"Keep your jobs". I'd like to add to that- all women should be encouraged to have higher education for this reason. Even if it's not a 4-year college,go with a vocational skill. Thank God my mom was able to leave my VERY dangerous father many years ago. Why? She had a Master's when she met him,& her own home. Even if all you have is some sort of education, it can give you a sense of self esteem in knowing that you aren't trapped, and it will be easier for you to acquire gainful employment to care for yourself (and a child, if you have one).
Reply

oh.geez. was starred oh.geez. was unstarred

Alys Brangwin has a huge talent
01/26/09

@oh.geez.: You are so right. I was in the Peace Corps and taught English. My favorite place was the English club at the university. We had a lot of young women who were just being allowed to form their own opinions, and it was clear that the ability to synthesize and analyze information is central to becoming independent. We discussed a lot of feminist questions and they got new perspectives.

I also like to think that my fifth grade class that loved me so much and was half female saw me as an example of what could be done in one lifetime. By the time I left they were all saying "I want to go to America!" mostly because it was what we discussed most often. If I had been French they would have wanted to see France, but just getting those girls to dream about spreading out makes me smile. They were told so often that their destiny is only motherhood.
Reply

Flackette Goes Retro
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
Boyfriend-of-Flackette is a single dad, who has 50% custody of his young daughter, and pays half of her healthcare, preschool, clothing, etc expenses. He quite rightly feels that it's just his responsibility to take care of these things, but it's stunning how many people give him profuse compliments for "being so involved in her life." We need a cultural shift so that fully involved fathers are the norm, not an exception to gush over.
Reply

WashingMyHair
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
What? Women getting the short end of the stick? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!
Reply

WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

MrsDarcy
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
I just want to point out that not all divorced fathers benefit financially. Mr. Darcy pays quite a bit of his salary in child support payments and much more on top of that. In return he is allowed to see his kids barely a quarter of the time that their mother does.
Reply

MrsDarcy was starred MrsDarcy was unstarred

Flackette Goes Retro
01/26/09

@MrsDarcy: Yes, my boyfriend spends most of his money on his daughter (it's not a child support payment, as he has 50% custody of her, just an arrangement whereby they split her preschool, health insurance, etc). His divorce definitely was not helpful to him financially.
Reply

PhDork
01/26/09

@Flackette is a Red State Elitist: I'm honestly not trying to be snarky or argumentative, but I don't see how this is part of the same topic. He would be supporting his daughter (as he should), whether he was married to her mother or not right?
Reply

PhDork was starred PhDork was unstarred

Trulymadlyme
01/26/09

@PhDork: I think it relates to the article because he is actively involved in parenting the child. So, he splits the parental obligations that invariably cut into his ability to work equally with his ex. They are on the same terms with respect to balancing the parenting obligations with work obligations.

Not that he deserves a medal, but he (and his ex) appear to be doing it right. Kudos.
Reply

Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

Red-headed bookworm
01/26/09

@MrsDarcy: Yeah, in Indiana they can take up to 60% of the man's pay for child support and in some cases of the guys on our payroll, they do. Some of them can barely support themselves because they pay so much of their pay for child support. Yes, they need to support their kids but men who are on the lower end of wages are definitely not better off being divorced. I think it depends on how well off you were before and your cicumstances after. Some men are real jerks after the divorce and some women are, too. I think it's wrong to generalize who is better off, but I do payroll so I get to see a lot of info on people's wages and what they have to pay.
Reply

jleigh
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
It doesn't surprise me that this story is from the UK. Many states in the US have already dealt with this disparity by creating laws that give additional support to a spouse who has given up their career to support the other spouse with schooling, work, etc.

These days a woman who worked a crummy job to put her husband through school, then stayed home to raise the kids, is going to be in a pretty decent position in the US.
Reply

jleigh was starred jleigh was unstarred

Plum-Pie
01/26/09

@jleigh: Is the enforcement of these regulations 100% effective?
Reply

Plum-Pie was starred Plum-Pie was unstarred

BeckySharper
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
i.e. Don't give up your day job, ladies. It's risky to expect someone else to be your primary means of support.
Reply

BeckySharper was starred BeckySharper was unstarred

Majrhoulihan
01/26/09

@BeckySharper: That's what my Mama always told me. My parents have been together since they were 16, and there's still no way she'd give up her job.
Reply

Majrhoulihan was starred Majrhoulihan was unstarred

RainbowBrite
01/26/09

@BeckySharper: Agreed 100%. To me, that's the key takeaway from this post.
Reply

RainbowBrite was starred RainbowBrite was unstarred

WashingMyHair
01/26/09

@BeckySharper: This is something I struggle with as my husband and I are currently trying to have a child. We can't live on my income but could on his alone (though it'd be tough). I'm not organized enough to work full-time and give my child everything that they need in their early years. I wish I was, but I'm not.

So working part-time is the best option for the health and sanity of us all, at least for a few years. But heaven forbid, if something happens to my marriage, I'll be at a disadvantage.

Golly, life's decisions are hard. Aren't they?
Reply

WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny
01/26/09

So 31 percent just seemed like abysmally low to me, but I suppose it makes sense when you look at how all of these things are administered and that some dudes are just douchebags (case in point, my niece's biological "father").

Clearly there are deep seated cultural problems that exascerbate this, like WashingMyHair having to stay home because childcare is awfully expensive and it's so hard to manage a family and a career at the same time (heck I have trouble managing just a career). For a country that claims to be all about families (the US) we certainly don't do a lot for them.
Reply

BeckySharper
01/26/09

@WashingMyHair: Just make sure that you stay in the game enough that you can go back to work when your child is older. Even if you have a good marriage, you just never know...my grandma was widowed at age 31 and had three small daughters. She raised them to be completely self-supporting, married or not. I'm sure that my mother's career made it much easier for her to weather her divorce from my father, both emotionally and financially.

@PrettyBitch: Uh huh. I'm a big fan of pre- and post-nups for just that reason.
Reply

BeckySharper was starred BeckySharper was unstarred

SomeAuthorGirl
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
A highly underrated custody situation (that gets poo-poo'd quite a bit by many a male psychologist) is a 50/50 split. Week on, week off. The argument typically is that kids need "stability," but I fail to see why parents sharing equally is something other than "stable." Especially when the disparity is great enough for the children to notice. It is something that I would respect the father's rights movement more for if they took a very hard stance with that. You don't want to "victimized?" Then fucking own up to your responsibilities and PARENT like an equal.
Reply

SomeAuthorGirl was starred SomeAuthorGirl was unstarred

funnyface
01/26/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: That would work great if both parents lived in the same town and school district. My parents always lived in separate cities.
Reply

funnyface was starred funnyface was unstarred

Plum-Pie
01/26/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: The only problem with this is that when fathers kill their children, they usually do it when the relationship with the mother has broken down and the kids are visiting. This is a good article, including some info relevant to the US: [www.guardian.co.uk]
Reply

Plum-Pie was starred Plum-Pie was unstarred

Plum-Pie
01/26/09

@SomeAuthorGirl: In theory, however, I completely agree with your point, especially re fathers rights groups.
Reply

Plum-Pie was starred Plum-Pie was unstarred

NefariousNewt
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
And just as a note to this: when my father left my mother when I was 5, he never paid child support. My mom did it all on her own, and it was rough sometimes, but we made it through, with the help of her mother.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

WashingMyHair
01/26/09

@NefariousNewt: My parents divorced when I was also five (w/2 older sisters)and my father was so sporadic w/his child support that right before I turned 18, my mother had to sign some document for the state, absolving my father from the tens of thousands of dollars of child support payments he was behind on. It took the state 15+ years to finally get serious and threaten my father with jail if he didn't pay. Yes my father was at fault, but jailing him after 15 years of struggling (and when I was about to move out on my own) wasn't going to solve the problem.
Reply

WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

NefariousNewt
01/26/09

@WashingMyHair: The upshot of my parents' divorce: my father is still struggling to this day, and my mother made herself into a successful real estate agent and accountant (with a little tax preparer on the side). It's wrong my mother was forced to work so hard, but in the end, she made better of it than my dad.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

WashingMyHair
01/26/09

@NefariousNewt: Wow! For the fortunate ones like you, the positive side of divorce was that your mother became this strong, self-sufficient role model.
Reply

WashingMyHair was starred WashingMyHair was unstarred

Red-headed bookworm
01/26/09

@NefariousNewt: Well, if you are in the US and he should have paid child support, the obligation never goes away. A guy where I work has to pay child support to his ex-wife even though the kids are grown cause he never paid it.
Reply

stacyinbean
01/26/09

In reply to Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed
Aww, all my poor dad got was this really ugly owl clock and the wedding china. He let my mother have everything because she had custody of me. I'd say they're both in similar situations right now, though my mother would certainly be worse off had she not remarried.
Reply

stacyinbean was starred stacyinbean was unstarred

funnyface
01/26/09

@stacyinbean: My mother should have been paying my dad child support, since he had custody, but instead, he continued to pay her child support long after I no longer even had visitation with her, despite the fact that she made plenty of money as an APN.
Reply

funnyface was starred funnyface was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

#forricherorpoorer

Jezebel

SUBSCRIBE TO Jezebel

Richer, Poorer: Divorce Makes Men More Moneyed

Wait, What? Do That Many Men Really Prefer Women Pretty & Poor?

Login

Reset Password

Register

Submit Your Comment