Jezebel 
Enter your username and password.
New York, 1:26 AM
Mon Nov 30
18 posts in the last 24 hours
Tip your editors:
tips@jezebel.com
Editor-in-Chief:
Anna Holmes
Email | Twitter
Deputy Editor:
Dodai Stewart
Email | Twitter
Senior Contributing Editor:
Tracie Egan
Email | Twitter
Contributing Editors:
Anna North
Email | Twitter
Sadie Stein
Email | Twitter
Reporter:
Irin Carmon
Email | Twitter
Editorial Assistant:
Margaret Hartmann
Email | Twitter
Contributors:
Rich Juzwiak
Email | Twitter
Latoya Peterson
Email
Jenna Sauers
Email
Lizzie Skurnick
Email
Interns:
Katy Kelleher
Twitter
Original material is licensed under a Creative Commons License permitting non-commercial sharing with attribution.
11/24/09
'Whip It' did NO where near these kinds of numbers and sadly it seems the worse the movie, in the case of New Moon, the bigger the female audience. Im hoping that Hollywood will look at this and say, "Oh we need to get more females behind the scenes so we can develop better films for them", but what it will probably mean is about two - three more adaptations of YA series on vampires, which will eventually kill the whole genre.
11/24/09
11/24/09
I plan to see Precious when it comes out this week in my city, but you couldn't drag me to New Moon in a million years.
When Mamma Mia came out last year, the same discussion about women-driving-ticket-sales-for-a-film-that-attracts-them were all over the internet. It's a tedious debate. Of course it's true, but really that's not the reason why films aimed at women audiences are not being made. It's because the decision makers and money people in Hollywood are still overwhelmingly white middle class males.
Also I wouldn't describe the Twilight series as female-driven films. Doesn't it promote stalkerist behaviour from males?
11/24/09
sidenote: i'm not dismissing The Princess and the Frog (i personally cannot wait until it comes out), i'm just not using it for this argument because i don't know anything major about the characters or the plot yet to draw a decent analysis. the end.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/24/09
I still really want there to be better, feminist movies, obv. But I can't grudge people taking the inches they're given.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
They have different tastes, so they stand up for them. Has nothing to do with men.
11/24/09
But they apparently aren't even sure there's a market for movies that are primarily about women.
11/24/09
This is like the sexist version of "I don't see color"
11/24/09
11/24/09
In our society we value men and things that are associated with men. That's why women get praised for being "genderblind" and doing guy stuff. Girl stuff has an automatic stigma of being frivolous and stupid, and women aren't immune to that impression. The real change is already happening, and you're missing out.
At any rate, these anecdotes still add nothing to the discussion, except to clog it with a bunch of identical pointless comments.
#tips
11/25/09
No, no ma'am, everyone already knows that women (or anyone) will see a movie. Just because that movie has more men then women means nothing to who will see it, because it is the plot and the writing that should count, not what gender the actors are.
Also, frankly, saying there isn't a market targeting women is absurd. Romantic comedy's, right there.
Maybe you want an entire market full of good movies with main characters? Because there are many, many movies with women as main characters, but it doesn't mean any of them are to your taste.
Ranging from drama filled hallmark movies to action thrillers (Inglorious Bastards for one--Mélanie Laurent was amazing) to vampire/werewolf ass kicking, horror to comedy to indie. Really, just think of anything with Angelina Jolie or movies written by Quentin Tarrantino.
How can an entire genre be targeted at one group and still satisfy everyone? It's impossible. I personally don't like vampire/werewolf ass kicking, or horror, but I love action thrillers, comedy and indie. That means I watch man only targeted programing? Hell no. That's ridiculous.
What is really the problem here, the fact that the main female characters your getting in movies aren't memorable enough, or the fact that you feel you would enjoy a movie with less men in it?
Now write me back, and try not to say, "It's not about men".
11/25/09
11/23/09
The main problem with Hollywood isn't the lack of girly movies, but that few people seem capable of writing interesting, nuanced roles for female actors at any age. TV generally has been better (especially the cable channels), but it's still slim pickings.
11/23/09
I would love to believe that women want good films, but I tend to think they just want their own brand of crap.
11/23/09
People take what they're provided, for the most part. Though I'm puzzled as to why people still spend so much money on crappy movies when there are so many home entertainment options available given the internet, Netflix, Hulu, etc.
But I think you missed my point, which is that there is a dearth of interesting roles and female characters in movies these days vs. roles for men and male characters.
11/23/09
People don't really take what they are given. Movie studios crank out what the people (the vast majority) want. I think you're overestimating the taste/intelligence of the average human being.
11/24/09
11/23/09
I just don't buy this idea that it's "empowering" for "women-centric" films to succeed when what we mean by "women-centric" is a storyline that's vapid and centered entirely on getting-the-guy, and which makes zero attempt to even come close to passing the Bechdel Test. All it does is give Hollywood the idea that stuff like New Moon is the blueprint for what films women want, and makes it harder, not easier, for another Precious to get green-lighted, not to mention a women-powered film in one of the "guy" genres like action or sci-fi. (And as a female sci-fi fan, I find this especially disheartening.)
11/23/09
11/23/09
Uhura as a character is better for portrayals of women, but it's undermined by her relative 3rd tier character importance. Without increased visibility, there's no real progress. Star Trek is still male centric as a narrative, no matter how cool Uhura is. And while this isn't my first choice either, it does have a positive side because it's A. a genre fiction story B. entirely female centric. People can't tell me women don't like/won't watch supernatural stories anymore. Or that they don't have that rabid fan spending power. They clearly do.
I just don't know where Sci-Fi got the idea that we don't want women. Terminator, Alien/Aliens, BSG...it's not like it's never been done before, and been successful.
I honestly don't think something like Twilight really has much of an effect on a movie like Precious, though. That movie is doing incredibly well for what it is is, and in limited release. It was never going to be a blockbuster. The meter for success is different, and it's not really tied into what mainstream Hollywood would ever consider "typical" female fare anyway. That kind of movie is always going to be indie, because it's a much rougher, less "pop" story.
11/23/09
I don't like the idea that women's films should be 'ghettoised' because I think it perpetuates the problem. Having said that, it's not ghettoising to say hey, we need to be consciously trying to get some awesome female protagonists in our movies, and not just as sidekicks and eye candy, because that's smart. Women like it, and as the movies above show, it hardly turns the mens away.
11/23/09
There is a certain kind of fanboy who objects to female characters that don't exist exclusively for ogling. But I think most people like good characters no matter what. It's only when the focus of the story ends up being female centric that I think you'll find more men balking, and assuming they can't relate. Which is obviously b.s., but it's like a lot of othering...women, poc's, homosexuals...they have to backup characters in most mainstream movies because there is a big swath of viewers made uncomfortable by anything outside the status quo. Much like they are in the culture at large.
The ghettoizing if female centric stories has been going on a long time now...and the only thing that will change that is just having more movies with female characters that do well in a variety of genre's. I don't know if we'll ever dislodge the assumption that "girls like romance"...what we need to do is amend it to "girls like romance, AND sci-fi, AND action, AND horror" etc. We like diverse stories about diverse characters, too.
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
11/23/09
Sometimes I think they just say "movies for women don't make money" as an excuse to keep making only what they want to make, and silencing women who try to speak up about what they want to see.
These men don't want to be bothered with actual facts.
11/23/09
11/23/09
Also, --slightly off-topic, sorry -- Jezebel should consider including Ochocinco in TweetBeat every once in a while. I know, this isn't Deadspin, but he's both hilarious and ridiculous most of the time.
11/23/09
1. the romantic relationships be centric to the protagonists' lives;
2. the female protagonists be obsessed with their boyfriends and only their boyfriends;
3. and the four protagonists were first and foremost friends, regardless of the romantic entanglements that happen.
Yes, I am aware I will never be published!
11/23/09
11/23/09
But that's besides the point, in a sense, because there is so much "guy stuff" that is equally lowbrow, and we don't even think to point it out. It's just accepted as harmless escapism. And that's the point: in a way it's not just about the heights women can reach, it's also about the equality of crap. Fanboys need to get over the idea that women are invading their sandbox and understand that if everyone else's fantasies are snobbishly scrutinized, theirs will be too.