Jezebel 
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New York, 6:48 PM
Sat Nov 7
42 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/04/09
I have a lot to say, so I hope I can focus here.
To start, I appreciate those who can answer to criticism and make an effort to articulate their thoughts. Edelstein is out of the gate, however, in total defense mode.
They believe my language reflects deep and both conscious and unconscious prejudices toward African-Americans, obesity, and the so-called "underclass."
Something I think is often glossed over, even on this site, is that we all have ingrained prejudices, on varying levels, and this is not always a negative thing. What's negative is when you fall back on these prejudices and look to them as a benchmark. Talk about it, put it out there, admit that you're not fucking perfect.
Of note, Sidibe herself makes a very interesting comment on the Ellen show along these lines. When Ellen asks if she knows anyone who experienced the life of Precious, where she pulled this character from, she responds with:
"When I read this book I realized that knew this girl...she's a real person, and I knew her in my family, and I knew her in my friends and I knew her in people I didn't want to know."
There's color, there's class, there's sexuality, there's gender, and there's humanity.
Also, there is no "so-called" underclass. There's an underclass.
I am also struck by the characterization of Precious as a "victim." Having just read the book, I've come away feeling that she very much is NOT a victim. At least not in the way Edelstein has framed it.
In fact, I found her to be a strong, hopeful and determined character, despite the horrific violence she survived.
And, I would like to thank the commenter (I've forgotten who) who assured me that the book was a "love letter" to literacy and the arts. If I took anything away from this story, it's how empowering education can be. You earn it, and no one can take it away. Not to be totally cheesy, but that really is a beautiful thing.
To say that the actress's or character's weight is "front and center" entirely misses the point. It's simply a character trait, like any other. What makes it noteworthy is that we as a society, and especially, it seems, Edelstein, are uncomfortable with it.
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11/04/09
I think you're absolutely right about playing it as it lays and just owning up to prejudices and thinking about how it can make everyone look at a portrait of a character in a completely different manner. Because I think that what was lost in the NY Mag. review and truthfully, that's what made me so upset. There is this hope, inherent in all of the tragedy, that still lives. And it lives because her mind was freed by the power of literacy.
Stopping now. Not going to cry in my office. But yes, the book (and movie) is a love letter to the power of literacy and a call to action. At least, it was to me. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
Perhaps if Edelstein didn't start off his piece so confrontational, I would have been a little more receptive to his over-explaining the fact that everything the Jez posse called him out on was spot-on. If he really believed his own words, he wouldn't have to try to justify them to anyone, including people he angered.
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You know what? His statement is so ridiculous that I can't even come up with a sarcastic response. Let's see him try to justify his horrible and inaccurate attempts at justification. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
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Ultimately, I enjoyed Edelstein's tap dance of justifications, but it just goes to show you-- in conversations about race, mainstream America would rather talk than listen. It's all about showing racist you are NOT, rather than actually learning from the (O)thers' comments. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
2. Outside of Oprah, who has spent millions to lose and keep her weight off, it’s hard to think of another overweight African-American cover girl — until now, anyway.
Uh, Queen Latifah? Jennifer Hudson? Pretty sure Sherri Shepherd and Mo'Nique have been on the cover of some magazines, too.
11/03/09
11/03/09
I watched the trailer and I cried. I have been through a rough period recently and I feel a heaviness that sits in my chest, but I haven't been able to cry in a long time. I tried to make myself do it, but it didn't work. Now I am sitting here with tears still in my eyes. And none of the tears are for my own sorry situation.
What you, Edelstein, Oprah or anyone thinks about this movie and the issues presented in it do not matter to me. What the female lead character looks like, stereotypes about the appearance of black female celebrities, all that is full of sound and fury, well, it signifies nothing.
I cried because I used to work at an inner city shelter. The kids there, "my" kids there, have lived lives so unspeakably horrific that most people cannot begin to comprehend it. I have seen more real-life Precious's than you. I have held the bleeding head of a 12-year old girl that was pregnant with her second baby after she beat her own head against a doorframe - the only way she could outwardly express the pain she was feeling inside. I have rushed 13-year old homeless prostitutes to the hospital after their pimps beat them. I have broken up gang fights. I have been sot at. It doesn't matter what the female lead in the movie LOOKS like. It DOESN'T MATTER. What matters is that Precious' story is shared by hundreds of thousands of children every day. What matters is these kids have no one that loves them and are a part of a system so fucked up that they'll never get out - no matter what feel-good American Dream dogma we spew. What matters is that our society shuns these kids because of their violence and their poverty and that there is no program in place that can fix it.
Think about the real message in this story before you get on your high horse about appearances and before you get riled up at Edelstein for ivory-tower pedantry. You're the same, even if you think you're on different sides of the "issue."
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Do we need a sizism bingo card? #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
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11/03/09
I think he was trying to describe Precious, the character Sidibe played, and not Sidibe herself. Charlize Theron in "Monster" was harrowing but in real life? C'mon, the woman is stunning. We wouldn't take the criticism leveled against her appearance in that movie as an indictment of the real woman's attractiveness so I think it's unfair to assume Edelstein was attacking Sidibe.
Also, see the illdoctrine video posted below. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
Edelstein is apologizing because he's afraid he's being called racist and sizeist.
He's not apologizing for writing racist and sizeist things -- which is what they are (and if you don't see it, may I suggest you have some reading to do, and might want to start with Latoya's other site, Racialicious) -- which is what he did.
The illdoctrine vid says "I don't care what you are. I care what you did."
You might want to watch it again. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
From an interview Charlize gave:
"Charlize: Well, Tony G - who should win every award out there for make up - had no budget, there's no prosthetics used. She had teeth made for name- they were sculpted - literally every tooth is sculpted. Contacts of course. There was liquid latex- it's like a moisturizing you put on the face and dry with a hairdryer and stretch it out so it gets really leathery looking. Then she would paint layers and layers of tattoo colors with a spray gun, airbrush. She'd get this dimension on the skin. And the only thing she used was this thick latex on the top of my eyelids to make them a little heavier. She plucked all my eyebrows then bleached them out - because Aileen had practically no eyebrows. She would highlight my nose. The freckles were the airbrush." #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
11/03/09
Ill Doctrine is a fave and I've watched that vid a couple of times and once more since you challenged me. I'll say that Edelstein is reacting the way he is because he was called a racist (to quote a jezzie: In fact, this review is fucking evidence of some of the fucked up pathology that drives the self-hatred of the main character in Precious) and his rebuttal was largely about that: Edelstein saying he's not a racist which is the over-riding point of the Ill Doctrine installment. the argument became about who he *is* and not what he said.
I'm not saying every Jezebel commenter jumped up his ass to call him a racist or that we shouldn't have taken issue with what the man said and how he said it.
I'm saying that I feel bad for him that he got trapped in his words tryign to describe overweight, welfare-dependent black women. He also wrote things like "And he has such a striking actress in Gabourey Sidibe, who plays Precious, that he doesn’t need to force her alienation—or ours. I’m not judging girls who look like Sidibe in life, but her image onscreen is jarring" and "The movie is saying that she’s not an object, but the way that Sidibe is directed she becomes one" in defense of Sidibe! He took issue with the *character* and the *movie*, not the people.
Edelstein isn't the only critic to point out that Precious can feel exploitative (a quick rotten tomatoes check will confirm) and, at first blush, he might have seemed racist and sizist but I think he acquitted himself well in his follow-up. And, because he took the criticism seriously, my mind was opened to the possibility he might have been misunderstood. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
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11/03/09
Edelstein said it was the direction, the speech pattern she put on, the lighting, and, yes, Sidibe's build played for maximum impact that transformed a "striking actress" (his words) into a tragic figure in need of some serious hope. Precious was an extreme, as was her teacher played by Paula Patton, with the halo lighting, the better wardrobe and makeup to make her look even better. Sidibe could have had the same treatment, better lighting and clothes, and her appearance might have been described in more glowing terms by the critics but it wouldn't have worked for the movie.
Sapphire described Precious like this in the book: "I'm big, five feet nine-ten, I weigh over two hundred pounds. Kids is scared of me." #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
I'm not.
Because the things you raise are addressed in the reading I suggested, and the fact that you didn't take the suggestion seriously tells me you're not really interested in analyzing the issues. You've already made up your mind and are defending stereotypical representation pretty much just to hear yourself talk.
And BTW, you sounded pretty condescending yourself just then. Especially in context.
(Although since it's pretty clear you haven't started the reading, my guess is that the context isn't quite clear yet.)
It looks like sciencegirl and DexterHaven have more patience with that type of exposition than I do. They can handle it (and you). I'm out.
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As far as him not being aware of his own prejudices, you can't know his heart and I, again, point to the Ill Doctrine video. It's not an argument you can win and it's not the kind you want.
Let's assume, because this man doesn't have a record of offenses and is taking seriously the charges of racism, that he didn't mean to offend with his review of a movie and character. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
As the person who wrote this, I think he found the point in his response and then dropped it once something shiny came along.
Which is to say, he stepped back to recognize the humanity in the story but decided that defending himself was more important than realizing where exactly these images, which derive the characters' definitions of worth (as well society's) come from. I guess doing so would require an admission of complicity. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
BTdubs, it doesn't matter if he meant to offend or not.
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11/03/09
I didn't mean to offend anyone or you, I only have a different opinion. I've enjoyed lots of your comments on this site but I definitely wanted to tell you how your response made me feel (condescended to).
I don't think I said anything particularly incendiary, just a different take on a nuanced issue, but I am sorry I upset you. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
11/03/09
Good on ya, commenters! #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
SO FUCKING RETIRE ALREADY. JUST GO AWAY AND TAKE YOUR SOFT RACISM, HARD CLASSISM, and HETERONORMATIVE BULLSHIT WITH YOU.
Thanks.
Love,
TRex #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
I've heard prejudices of the exact same type that Edelstein spouted come out of the mouths of twenty-one-year-olds. And recently.
However, hee hee -- you said "transgressive". #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
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Orly. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
"No one at New York would describe the characters (or people they're based on) in Precious as monsters."
And a couple of paragraphs later he says "I’m not naïve enough to think that monsters like Precious’s mother don’t exist."
I think he was a little shaken by the Jezebel criticism, because this looks pretty hastily written. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
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11/03/09
In addition to the self-contradiction, I find his referencing of the "outright abuse" to which he has been subjected (by us, I guess?) to be extremely grating. An example of "outright abuse" would be getting kicked in the face while giving birth, as he himself references in his rebuttal. Having people say mean things about you on the Internet falls into one of those pesky gray areas of "outright abuse." It could also be called "part of the job description" for a journo, I would think.
In summary: Aquire a large straw. Suck it up. #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09
Words are not fists: some thoughts on how men work to defus...
From a rhetorical standpoint, this technique is called "leveling." #caterwaulingagainsttheworld
11/03/09