I also love how these dumbasses fancy themselves some sort of 1776-style revolutionary vanguard with their trumped-up language. "WE WILL SPEAK LOUDER AND STAND TALLER DON'T TREAD ON ME LULZ". Bish, plz. The last thing you need to be doing is speaking louder - at least until you sit your ignorant ass down and learn yourself a little motherfucking history.
Ugh, it's driving me nuts that Lebanon is in the news for this. I always hated living here (imagine dealing with lots of Katy Abram clones for most of your 23 years of life), and now it's so embarrassing to see people like her represent my county.
Oh katy katy katy let me tell you what slumbering giant YOU woke up. Pissed off informed Americans who finally are feeling the need to snatch control from the idiocracy that has dominated for the past twenty years or so. AND STOP telling me what's in the constitution or what the framers wanted when you're so proudly ignorant. I'm sick of seeing you new class of "pundits" on tv. Have you read the constitution? How about the federalist papers? Maybe some constitutional theory works like Sunstein, Scalia, Dworkin, Fleming? No? You know who I bet has read it? The president who used to teach constitutional law.
I almost got married so that my unemployed boyfriend who couldn't afford COBRA and has a chronic medical condition could use my insurance. Maybe this is just a roundabout way for the right wing to promote marriage.
@morninggloria: Jesus, I had the same conversation with my boyfriend. I pay $300/month for insurance and he pays $50. Not quite the same, of course. But, I hear what you're singing.
@Penny: I've been trying to convince my boyfriend that we should get married for his insurance. He remains unconvinced that this is a good reason for marriage.
I think you're all being horribly unfair to this admirable woman. I sympathize with her in her valiant quest, and she is truly worthy of this comparison. It brings to mind my heroic struggle this morning to get out of bed and turn off my alarm clock, rather than suffer through a minute of beeping as so many poor souls have before. I believe that I am now worthy of canonization.
I saw this woman being interviewed on MSNBC, she came off as very sincere but very clueless about any of the issues involved, merely parroting back talking points she'd been fed. When asked, after complaining about her taxes being raised, whether her family income was over the $250,000 level, she merely stammered, "Oh, I have no idea, my husband takes care of the money." When asked whether she was in favor of abolishing Medicaid and Social Security (more "socialist" programs), she looked blank and said she hadn't really thought about it, but maybe.
It seems to me she's merely a "useful idiot" (to steal an old Soviet term) for the right wing and the insurance lobby.
@chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish: It's easy to be sincere when you are clueless. I like your "useful idiot" callout here... they are always needed by Ministries of Misinformation.
She's like one of the wives on Camazotz (in a Wrinkle in Time). They don't know why they sweep the floor at such and such time, why they call in the kids and such and such time, they just do it because the big creepy head told them it's the right thing to do.
was that the interview with lawrence o'donnell? i particularly enjoyed the part where o'donnell asked her if her parents would participate in medicare, which is a government-run single payer health care service. her response was "uh... i don't know. we don't talk about politics."
@obfuscator: Yeah, that was the one. She couldn't really answer a single one of his fairly simple questions, said she'd never cared about or been interested in politics until this issue came up, which prompted him to ask something along the lines of: "So we had 9/11, we've been involved in two wars, that never piqued your interest in politics?" And she said "Oh, wars, it seems like we're always involved in them... they just seem routine."
Had I been at a desk, I'd have banged my head on it.
@chritter is a nocturnal feminist mancatfish: My guess is she is well aware her family income is not $250,00, she just did not want to acknowledge it on tv. If her family income was $250,00 in small town PA, it would be very easy to ascertain.
Clearly, the larger problem here is ignorance, but specifically, I don't think that the majority of these people know anyone who this is going to effect. They live in isolation, rather they live in a homogenous community. I feel like if each of these people had a good friend or family member go to them and say, "hey, you know I don't have insurance. This is how I have to live my life: I am careful not to do anything dangerous because I know I couldn't afford the care. When I get sick I have to wait it out. (I may or may not have sick time so I either drag my sick ass in, or not get paid)." This is the only thing I can think of because these people obviously DO NOT GET IT.
I was talking to my dad recently and he is kind of on the fence about health care. I recently graduated college and don't have a job/insurance or really anything useful. He told me that he was unsure about it, but when he thinks about me, he says, "well, maybe this is not such a terrible idea."
The only reason to say no to this is because you are so privileged that you have always had a full time job where you had insurance. You are currently able- bodied, so it's not prohibitively expensive. Anyone who's ever been a freelancer or has decided to try to get private insurance for themselves, knows how ridiculously expensive it is. This opposition is blind to the needs of anyone but their WASPy selves and their WASPy friends.
@Lin-Z [linguist on duty]: But a lot of these people aren't particularly well off. Many of them have no insurance, or rely on medicare. They're employing the same cognitive dissonance that made it OK that Joe the Plumber grew up on welfare: they have no problem with social services when it's benefitting them or people like them, but they have some idea that that the vast majority of users of these services are lazy and immoral and trying to get over on the system, and/or aren't good white christians who deserve these sorts of things. It makes it hard to argue, because facts and statistics don't matter when what you're really afraid of is an irrational boogeyman. Some people may just sincerely not get what it means to live without insurance, and others get it and don't give a damn, but some of the loudest and angriest people out there are just not making any kind of coherent argument and will not respond to facts.
@Lin-Z [linguist on duty]: Some of my mother's family are RABID on this issue, which is strange because they're not well off. They're poor, most of them aren't college educated and universal health care would help them a lot. She lets them prattle on for a while, and then says "My brother is almost bankrupt because his insurance won't cover care for his son."
My cousin is very likely schizophrenic. He was brave enough to ask his parents for help, but it's getting more and more likely that they won't be able to help him anymore.
@RustyHeadedGirl is back in Miami!: Exactly. It seems to mostly be the uneducated not well off republicans freaking out about "socialism". I haven't heard a peep from the country club republicans.
Republicans seem to be very good at convincing the people they'll fuck over to vote for them.
@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: fair enough. I guess I can wrap my brain around rich people opposing this. But when I try to understand the mass amounts of cognitive dissonance involved for other people to oppose this it just...makes no sense. It is hard to have any kind of meaningful dialogue when people aren't responding to facts and information.
@Lin-Z [linguist on duty]: Middle class/lower middle class republicans oppose this because they believe one day they'll be rich. If they "work hard" they think they'll be rewarded with that $250k salary one day. I mean, Limbaugh tells them they're smart! They deserve it!
They vote aspirationally. They don't realize that they'll never go from cubicle worker x to the CEO. In the mean time, they'll vote republican while complaining about the cost of their prescription drugs, and when it comes time for Lil' Timmy to go to college they'll bitch about college costs. It's just not fair! There should be more scholarships! Heh.
If there's one thing I admire republicans for, it's this. They took the people they're screwing over and got them to agree with them. WELL. PLAYED.
@Lin-Z [linguist on duty]: Part of it is also the notion that "we" are getting screwed because "they" are using too much of X, which they haven't worked for and don't deserve. There are a variety of substitutions you can make for "we," "they," and "X," from health care to college tuitions to tax benefits, but it all comes out the same: my life sucks because someone else is getting something handed to them on a platter. Waaaah!
This concept is particularly effective when a group is, in fact, getting screwed over, like lower-middle-class whites in the Midwest. It also neatly avoids *who* is doing the screwing.
@greengrey: I want to buy you a drink and talk/rant about politics sometime! I keep saying this (not everybody is going to be in the top 1%!! MATH DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT) but it falls on deaf eyes (typo but it stays)
Katy, you are protesting something that isn't even actually happening. Martin Luther King stood up against racist, segregation and you know ACTUAL EVENTS.
Get over yourself, you silly martyr.
Didn't you know? Everyone owns a piece of the black civil rights movement. It's like the go to place for um Republicans. There was a Billboard up in my town before 2008 Election night "Martin Luther King was a Republican" I guess it was supposed to increase black voters for McCain?
@PogoStick09: I was canvassing my town day for Obama last fall and I passed by the Republicans' booth and they had two big posters-- one of Lincoln and the other of Martin Luther King Jr. No poster of McCain interestingly enough. The whole thing was so infuriating because of 1.) the insane amount of racism coming from the GOP at the time (and now for that matter) and 2.) it is "selective" history. The Republicans and Democrats were different parties than they are now-- the Democrats were, in general, a pretty racist party during much of the Civil Rights-era.
Another "wife and mother from down the block" turns out to be a pol. Not there is anything wrong with being politically active, but then lying about it in the name of "authenticity"? Absurd.
Meanwhile, the NYT reports that Obama's grass-roots support is slow to gather strength this time around, which raises the danger that the forces for the status-quo will outplay the forces for reform. [www.nytimes.com]
So if you are concerned, GET INVOLVED. If you are involved, GET OTHERS INVOLVED. If not, we will all suffer the consequences.
@DuckDuckGoose: I've been looking for information on where the town hall meetings are happening, but I didn't find out about the one in my area until the protests showed up in the news the day after it happened. I'm this close to visiting the anti-health care websites just to get the information they're getting.
@RustyHeadedGirl is back in Miami!: Opposition web sites are a good idea, but the pro-reform folks at Organizing for America [www.barackobama.com] should be able to hook you up with events and local activists who will be more plugged in to things near you.
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My brain hurts.
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I am totally MLK 2.0.
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It seems to me she's merely a "useful idiot" (to steal an old Soviet term) for the right wing and the insurance lobby.
08/15/09
She's like one of the wives on Camazotz (in a Wrinkle in Time). They don't know why they sweep the floor at such and such time, why they call in the kids and such and such time, they just do it because the big creepy head told them it's the right thing to do.
08/15/09
It seems Glenn Beck is the new "IT."
08/15/09
was that the interview with lawrence o'donnell? i particularly enjoyed the part where o'donnell asked her if her parents would participate in medicare, which is a government-run single payer health care service. her response was "uh... i don't know. we don't talk about politics."
08/15/09
Had I been at a desk, I'd have banged my head on it.
08/15/09
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08/16/09
08/15/09
I was talking to my dad recently and he is kind of on the fence about health care. I recently graduated college and don't have a job/insurance or really anything useful. He told me that he was unsure about it, but when he thinks about me, he says, "well, maybe this is not such a terrible idea."
The only reason to say no to this is because you are so privileged that you have always had a full time job where you had insurance. You are currently able- bodied, so it's not prohibitively expensive. Anyone who's ever been a freelancer or has decided to try to get private insurance for themselves, knows how ridiculously expensive it is. This opposition is blind to the needs of anyone but their WASPy selves and their WASPy friends.
08/15/09
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My cousin is very likely schizophrenic. He was brave enough to ask his parents for help, but it's getting more and more likely that they won't be able to help him anymore.
No one has an answer for that.
08/15/09
Republicans seem to be very good at convincing the people they'll fuck over to vote for them.
08/15/09
08/15/09
They vote aspirationally. They don't realize that they'll never go from cubicle worker x to the CEO. In the mean time, they'll vote republican while complaining about the cost of their prescription drugs, and when it comes time for Lil' Timmy to go to college they'll bitch about college costs. It's just not fair! There should be more scholarships! Heh.
If there's one thing I admire republicans for, it's this. They took the people they're screwing over and got them to agree with them. WELL. PLAYED.
08/15/09
This concept is particularly effective when a group is, in fact, getting screwed over, like lower-middle-class whites in the Midwest. It also neatly avoids *who* is doing the screwing.
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[www.licensepa.state.pa.us]
Seems her and hubby sell cars.
This is why, BTW, trying to obfuscate who one is, or what one is about tends to fail in the modern age.
Public records searches make it hard to hide.
08/15/09
Get over yourself, you silly martyr.
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[my.barackobama.com]
08/15/09
Meanwhile, the NYT reports that Obama's grass-roots support is slow to gather strength this time around, which raises the danger that the forces for the status-quo will outplay the forces for reform. [www.nytimes.com]
So if you are concerned, GET INVOLVED. If you are involved, GET OTHERS INVOLVED. If not, we will all suffer the consequences.
08/15/09
08/15/09