fetalpersonhood

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randomnessish
10/30/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
So um.

Does this mean my organs are tiny, fleshy people too? Because if so, now I don't have to give anyone a kidney! LITTLE TIMMY IS NOT READY TO BE TORN AWAY FROM HIS MAMMA. #fetalpersonhood
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Here There Everywhere in the Bean
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
Don't get me wrong--I loathe these people--but the proposed measure is still defining "people" as starting at the second sperm and egg meet, not as just eggs. They want to specify that instead of saying the moment of fertilization because they're afraid it somehow exempts zygotes created in-vitro or through cloning from anti-abortion laws. #fetalpersonhood
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Ms.RantyPants
10/30/09

@Here There Everywhere in the Bean: Exactly - you got it. The initiative asserts that personhood starts at the moment of "biological development." I didn't think that the newspaper interpreted it right - it's more about when certain gametic (?) cells start dividing, not when the egg is just hanging out on its own. Preventing biological development seems to be permissible.

That said, I have a hard time imagining that this initiative, even if passed, would pass constitutional muster. Roe and Casey are pretty firm about the concept that the fetus is NOT a person, and as far as i can tell, that's not something that states can determine (state constitutions can't override the federal constitution). However, the money wasted litigating this would be horrendous, especially since it would suck money away from worthy causes like increasing access to women health clinics. But what do I know, I'm just a dumb law student. #fetalpersonhood
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jenrobe
10/30/09

@Ms.RantyPants: Damn. Your sensible contribution just ruined my off-colour joke about my period. #fetalpersonhood
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Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
The thing that's sad about these Personhood people is not so much the rhetoric they're shilling but more the fact that non-profit, pro-choice organizations have to payout huge sums of money to counterbalance this legislation and keep it from passing. A good portion of the public is un-informed and many of them don't even read the ballot before selecting either 'yes' or 'no'. "Personhood" sounds like a totally agreeable concept until it's broken down to it's true intent. So, it then becomes the job of these non-profits to purchase ad-time and newspaper space to make sure that the public knows what they are voting for. This is money that many pro-choice organizations do not have in these tough economic times. I work with a pro-choice organization in Colorado (that has vehemently fought these assholes) and seriously, one of the best things angry people can do is contribute to these organizations. This way they'll have money to fund the pro-choice fight. Every year they have to deal with this bullshit and it's DRAINING resources like mad. There are a lot of people backing this initiative and they are speaking with their dollars, which is why these people had the resources to come back for a second go of it. Donate to your pro-choice organizations, it really makes a difference.That ends my PSA.
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Edited by Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC at 10/29/09 10:21 PM

UrsulaV
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
Wait...I'm on the pill, which prevents me from ovulating, which means I'm not killing unborn babies every month.

...has a crazed religious group actually come so far around the right that they WANT me to use birth control? That'd be...different. #fetalpersonhood
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midwestdesigner
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
When did our world become a Margaret Atwood novel!? #fetalpersonhood
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cand86
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
Back when they first introduced this proposed legislation, Capitalism Magazine did an amazing six-part series dissecting it:

[www.capmag.com]

Most fascinating is all the quandaries it presents- could your miscarriages be murder? And furthermore, isn't the state not doing its job on the hunt for justice if it doesn't investigate every single miscarriage? And wouldn't this require cataloging all women who are pregnant- even if it's been just a week? And if we can't know exactly when a woman is pregnant, perhaps we should start tracking her sexual activity and doing pregnancy tests. But you know, this would all just be easier if you padlocked her with a chastity belt . . .

Scary stuff, I tells ya.
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Edited by cand86 at 10/29/09 8:15 PM cand86 was starred cand86 was unstarred

effgeevee
10/29/09

@cand86: Simpler by far to impound all women as 'nests', for the safety of the many people she is carrying (carelessly, I might add!) in her.. insider her.. well in those bits attached to the *naughty places*. #fetalpersonhood
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FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope)
10/30/09

@cand86: I think technically miscarriages would be manslaughter. #fetalpersonhood
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cand86
10/30/09

@FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope): True, depending on whether it was the result of "negligence", or if they could prove you induced it (in which case it would be murder, right?). #fetalpersonhood
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rixatrix
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
So I have a million people living inside of me? Doesn't that seem like it should give me the right to do whatever I want - act in a million different contrary ways and get away with it? #fetalpersonhood
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Bitingpika
10/29/09

@rixatrix: You're pretty much the head of a small country. #fetalpersonhood
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rixatrix
10/29/09

@Bitingpika: Muah ha ha ha. Oh shit. Absolute power DOES corrupt absolutely. #fetalpersonhood
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redqueenmeg
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
I'm just wondering, if they did manage to get this passed and it only applied to eggs and not sperm, could we then make some rule about how men no longer are a contributing factor to pregnancy and therefore have no parental rights? That would certainly take things in a direction I'm sure these people don't want.

I'm not saying I want that either but you gotta fight fire with fire and stupidity with something EVEN MORE STUPID. #fetalpersonhood
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DearJamie
10/29/09

@redqueenmeg: Yeah I agree. If this idiotic logic can make it through, then why don't they add that men's sperm could also be considered a person?

This is just stupid. I guess millions of women are already child abusers and homicidal each month, every time we pass eggs during our periods. Do these people understand how a woman's body actually works? Or are they still going with the "conception is magic and an act of god" thing? #fetalpersonhood
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Niki S
10/29/09

@redqueenmeg: You want even more stupid? Well, if everything I eat is potentially going to become part of my body, as the building blocks of life then surely sandwiches should have rights too? #fetalpersonhood
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miyamyo
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
I saw this earlier! Doesn't this also mean that menstruation is murder? Because, um, if they have a way to put that whole process on hold safely, I'm all ears. #fetalpersonhood
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jetmore
10/29/09

@miyamyo: Ironically, you can...with birth control pills...which they don't think you should use either. The irony must drive them mad. #fetalpersonhood
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miyamyo
10/29/09

@jetmore: Oh, I'm on BC pills, but the ones I'm on just make them only 4 times a year, not gone completely... Are there any that will actually get rid of it altogether?

But yes, I am sure they would not approve. Allowing women to have safer sex will make 'em into whores, dontchaknow. #fetalpersonhood
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Ailatan
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
Since this argument is full of logic, right?

I will counter balance with this: My people ova* are pro choice, so suck it, Colorado anti-choicers

*I will go into extreme lenghts to introduce "People Ova" in conversation. #fetalpersonhood
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Melpomene
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
My ex-boyfriend literally believed that when he masturbated, he was ''throwing away children". He kept all the used tissues.

Needless to say, it was not a successful relationship. #fetalpersonhood
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cand86
10/29/09

@Melpomene: Kept them where?

I've heard the "throwing away children" bit, but to actually keep the tissues . . . #fetalpersonhood
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boxspelunker
10/29/09

@Melpomene: Wow. Where in the world did he keep the tissues? Did he plan to use them? Wouldn't they kinda... dry out and not be so useful anymore? So many questions. Good on you for escaping that bullet. #fetalpersonhood
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Bitingpika
10/29/09

@boxspelunker: I'm now picturing idiot boy reading stories to a crib full of crusty tissue. Ugh. #fetalpersonhood
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midwestdesigner
10/29/09

@Melpomene: He probably kept the tissue somewhere safe so Melpomene couldn't steal those possible "children" and get herself pregnant (just as efficient as hole-in-the-condom method, I'm sure). We ladies are too ca-razy to be help responsible for baby-making decisions!

We either "trap" men by getting pregnant or kill babies by using birth control (and having a period). #fetalpersonhood
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bluewine
10/29/09

@Bitingpika: I'm picturing him introducing his parents to the grandkids. #fetalpersonhood
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Cerridwen
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
By that logic, apparently, I'm murdering my unborn babies right now. Alert the authorities! It's a massacre! I better go dispose of the evidence with a new o.b. #fetalpersonhood
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curiousgeorgiana
10/29/09

@Cerridwen: Yeah, my bathroom just became a crime scene. #fetalpersonhood
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wtfox?!
10/29/09

@Cerridwen: Me too! Oh, the humanity! #fetalpersonhood
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rowkitty's kitty
10/29/09

@curiousgeorgiana: I was going to make a crime scene in my pants joke. #fetalpersonhood
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
It seems to me that the girls in possession of the pre-humans (you know, the eggs) should just be penned at the first sign of pubic hair, so that their monthly human delivery sacs may be utilized to best advantage (by the, you know, sperms). #fetalpersonhood
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curiousgeorgiana
10/29/09

@BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit): Good call. But then it would devolve into this whole debate: "Well, where do you buy your virgins? You know those conditions at the virgin factories our horrendous."

"Yeah, we only buy our virgins at the free-range farms. Everyone wants a happy virgin and they're sustainable!!"
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Edited by curiousgeorgiana at 10/29/09 7:13 PM curiousgeorgiana was starred curiousgeorgiana was unstarred

BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
10/29/09

@curiousgeorgiana: Oh, you're silly. No one will care about the virgins. #fetalpersonhood
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Experiment626
10/29/09

@curiousgeorgiana: it'll probably take a few decades before that kind of legislation even gets considered. and then people will be like, well, that's going to raise your prices a lot if you demand livable conditions and everyone knows the females can't tell the difference. #fetalpersonhood
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J.D.Regent
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
What does that mean, the big bang? #fetalpersonhood
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thehighshelf
10/29/09

In reply to Ova Are People, Too
so if someone kills me, are they guilty of mass murder? #fetalpersonhood
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Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred)
10/29/09

@thehighshelf: Yeah, every time a man is murdered, there should be a life sentence for every sperm destroyed. Unfortunately, I only have a few hundred eggs. Damned patriarchy :( #fetalpersonhood
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thehighshelf
10/29/09

@Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred): would they have to drain each man's balls and do an individual count? it really can vary a lot. . . #fetalpersonhood
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Bitingpika
10/29/09

@thehighshelf: Yeah. Also, you get one million votes when you're 18. Alas, the number dwindles to a handful at most by menopause. #fetalpersonhood
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midwestdesigner
10/29/09

@thehighshelf: That's part of their rationale, that they want to keep unborn children safe, in case a pregnant lady gets murdered. That way you can prosecute for TWO murders. So, yeah, pretty sure it'd be State of Colorado v. Killer Person with one case of manslaughter and a million counts of embryoslaughter. #fetalpersonhood
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