@AmericanSplendor: A sign of true maturity when a nerd embraces one's nerdom and realizes that it does provide many benefits in life...including being surrounded by other nerds.
@AmericanSplendor: In Tina Brown's defense, ironic detachment is extremely difficult, it's quickly mastering statistics on African girls' literacy rates and tying those to broad, effective strategies that's so damn easy.
@AmericanSplendor: I went to policy school and law school. I'm like a double wonk nerd. But you know something? Our President is a nerd and a wonk too and he's pretty damn cool.
I think it can be very difficult to compliment women on their success. I don't think that our language--culture?--has the vocabulary to compliment women on anything that isn't coded feminine.
You know how there's that whole thing where women are "sluts" but men are "studs," or men are "assertive CEOs" and women are "bitches"? It's like, even if you called a woman an "assertive CEO" it would still kind of come across as "bitch" to most readers. So people try to constantly undercut compliments by also bringing up her "femininity," which is necessarily subordinated, submissive, or conciliatory. I think when women want to say that Clinton's doing a good job, they have trouble articulating it in a way that they feel does not come across as implying "bitch" or "castrating man-hater." Their solution to that is to counter each compliment with what is essentially an insult, as this post so clearly lays out.
It isn't impossible--Jezebel writers do it every day. But Jezebel's staff also isn't afraid to openly be feminist or even confrontational (also, are good writers). It's sad that average journalists aren't good enough at writing to manage to get around our culture's prohibition on complimenting women's success and intelligence, and it's sad that they also feel like they have to temper any attempt at compliments. They are not only playing into the social trope of women's subordinate position, they're enforcing the structure of our language that codes things like "powerful," "assertive," "intelligent," and "competent" as masculine, and therefore vaguely insulting to women. Because calling a woman a masculine-coded adjective, even if it's complimentary, can be taken as insulting by some people, because it has masculinity embedded in its meaning.
@Cimorene: I don't think its a problem with the language, the words are there. Assertive, non-gendered, is a positive. If it makes one think of maleness, its probably because men are socialized to be assertive.
And I completely disagree that intelligent or competent are gendered words. My mother has been running her own newsroom for twenty years, and people never shy away from calling her intelligent or competent. Powerful, assertive, yes; intelligent, no.
Hunh. Interesting to try to think around those definitions.
Weirdly, when I think of feeling "masculine", I think of wearing pencil skirts, walking in heels that click against tile, and using biting or clever sarcasm. When I think of feeling "feminine", it's wearing a full skirt that moves with the wind, walking with an easy sway to my hips, and listening a lot more. But I also enjoy both of those states, and don't see either of them as preferable to the other.
I think I'm framing "masculinity" and "femininity" according to the audience -- I'm more likely to be on offense verbally with a roomful of guys, and I like being dressed a particular way when playing power games with men.
The only times I regard myself as masculine or feminine is in comparison to others. For instance, when I am around girls who are stereotypically feminine - really into shoes, pay a lot of attention to their appearances, love relationship porn - then I become conscious of how little I fit into the commonly accepted definition of "feminine."
The opposite is true when I am around me who are stereotypically masculine - I am suddenly very aware of myself as a woman.
But when I am on my own, or when I am with a close friend or my husband, I no longer think about such things. I am just me.
I hardly ever think of myself in terms of feminine or masculine, I don't often think of others that way either, unless a man is making a gratuitous display of his "manliness" (catcalls, revving his big trucks engine, pounding back beers, etc.). When I notice these displays I do not see "true" masculinity (whatever that means) but a mask, an act, an attempt to be seen and noticed and approved of. It never seems genuine to me, even if they feel natural doing it...
These things are fascinating to think about but I can never quite get my head around it. Because I don't buy it... any of it. I know I've felt the same way as these men at various times- self-reliant, dominating, etc. I never think of it as a masculine experience. It's part of being a competent grown up.
Is that something only men can be?
I think it should simply be called "humanity" because really, what is "feminine" and what is "masculine?" When you dress, behave, and express yourself in a way that you find most comfortable, then you are a PERSON. And that can fluctuate. Sometimes I feel more comfortable "dressed like a boy," and vice versa, but as long as I am feeling confident, I am just me, and my sex and gender don't matter. I'm attracted to PEOPLE, not men or women.
@HappyLand: I feel like this as well. I tend to think notions of masculinity and femininity are really just external roles we play. Every definition of masculine or feminine just seems limiting, saying women can't be independent and tough, while men can't be nurturing and domestic. None of it holds true once you look at people as individuals and not just part of a larger group.
i've always been fascinated by the biological imperative that accompanies heterosexual masculinity. generally speaking, a biological, heterosexual male can do traditionally "feminine" things, like sew, or cook, or design dresses, or whatever, and while he may be mocked (or more likely, congratulated), his masculinity isn't questioned on a fundamental level (because of the ween). but bring in anyone who's not playing on the same privilege level, be it for reasons of biology or sexual orientation or whatever, and the same assumptions just aren't made. transmen and butch lesbians sometimes take flack for reinforcing stereotypes of masculinity that can border on sexism, but i think that there's something to be said for the privilege that biology affords in terms of the freedom to move about within the realms of femininity and masculinity without having your identity questioned.
this is un-nuanced and touches on way too many things to be coherent. i am thinking, i suppose, of transmen who i've known pre- and post-transition, who felt a greater need to assert that stereotypical manly masculinity pre-transition, and then post-transition, when feeling more comfortable about society seeing them as the men they are, felt freer to sew, or whatever.
The explanations accompanying these photos are really striking in what they imply about the subjects' thinking. Many of the responses given sound like the answers to the question: What about yourself are you most proud of? Or: What is your most positive quality?
I mean, "dominating my field of study"?? "Self-reliance?" "Strong emotionally"?
Are these not qualities also found in MANY women? Are these really STILL seen as gendered qualities? And if so, I hate what that suggests about their inverse, "feminine" qualities.
Seems some DO get it though: Those would be the ones mentioning clothing choices and gender roles (yes, one actually uses that term), who clearly understand they're celebrating a construct they've embraced.
I feel feminine when I am doing things with my fingers. Lady crafts, like sewing, knitting, cooking, and such. Pioneer-y type things. Stuff Ma Ingles would have done. It connects me to my foremothers, every single stitch or chop comes flowing out through centuries of quietly Doing because those things had to be done. It makes me feel grateful that I have the chance and the opportunity to do them for leisure and reminds me of where I come from and who provided for me and who made it possible for me to be here working a job and being unmarried with a cat. I can choose who I want to marry because of the ladies before me who stitched and sewed and cooked and still had time to fight for themselves.
That's when I feel feminine.
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I find this interesting, because when I do the same things I feel self-sufficient, so not really a gendered response. Maybe because my Mom doesn't know a thing about sewing and my father did most of the cooking.
@MrsCatbird: I feel self-sufficient, too. But I don't see self-sufficient and feminine as being mutually exclusive. When I took up knitting nearly constantly last winter, I would sometimes fall into these long meditations on the exact nature of what I was doing and I'd start thinking about great-great grandmas who could knit socks to keep an entire family in socks and sweaters and my answer kind of grew out of those meditations.
i'm absolutely not about to make any blanket statements here, but let's just say i was not at all surprised to read that that Luke guy studies philosophy.
10/13/09
Nerd secret: the people calling you a nerd/wonk in a bad way are probably dumber than you.
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
10/13/09
YES, CALCULATORS CAN BE SEXAY.
10/13/09
You know how there's that whole thing where women are "sluts" but men are "studs," or men are "assertive CEOs" and women are "bitches"? It's like, even if you called a woman an "assertive CEO" it would still kind of come across as "bitch" to most readers. So people try to constantly undercut compliments by also bringing up her "femininity," which is necessarily subordinated, submissive, or conciliatory. I think when women want to say that Clinton's doing a good job, they have trouble articulating it in a way that they feel does not come across as implying "bitch" or "castrating man-hater." Their solution to that is to counter each compliment with what is essentially an insult, as this post so clearly lays out.
It isn't impossible--Jezebel writers do it every day. But Jezebel's staff also isn't afraid to openly be feminist or even confrontational (also, are good writers). It's sad that average journalists aren't good enough at writing to manage to get around our culture's prohibition on complimenting women's success and intelligence, and it's sad that they also feel like they have to temper any attempt at compliments. They are not only playing into the social trope of women's subordinate position, they're enforcing the structure of our language that codes things like "powerful," "assertive," "intelligent," and "competent" as masculine, and therefore vaguely insulting to women. Because calling a woman a masculine-coded adjective, even if it's complimentary, can be taken as insulting by some people, because it has masculinity embedded in its meaning.
10/13/09
And I completely disagree that intelligent or competent are gendered words. My mother has been running her own newsroom for twenty years, and people never shy away from calling her intelligent or competent. Powerful, assertive, yes; intelligent, no.
08/10/09
Weirdly, when I think of feeling "masculine", I think of wearing pencil skirts, walking in heels that click against tile, and using biting or clever sarcasm. When I think of feeling "feminine", it's wearing a full skirt that moves with the wind, walking with an easy sway to my hips, and listening a lot more. But I also enjoy both of those states, and don't see either of them as preferable to the other.
I think I'm framing "masculinity" and "femininity" according to the audience -- I'm more likely to be on offense verbally with a roomful of guys, and I like being dressed a particular way when playing power games with men.
08/10/09
The opposite is true when I am around me who are stereotypically masculine - I am suddenly very aware of myself as a woman.
But when I am on my own, or when I am with a close friend or my husband, I no longer think about such things. I am just me.
08/10/09
No thank you.
08/10/09
These things are fascinating to think about but I can never quite get my head around it. Because I don't buy it... any of it. I know I've felt the same way as these men at various times- self-reliant, dominating, etc. I never think of it as a masculine experience. It's part of being a competent grown up.
Is that something only men can be?
08/10/09
Lol, Luke, what?
You have psycho killer eyes. I have no love for you.
08/10/09
Maybe me with a fish.
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
this is un-nuanced and touches on way too many things to be coherent. i am thinking, i suppose, of transmen who i've known pre- and post-transition, who felt a greater need to assert that stereotypical manly masculinity pre-transition, and then post-transition, when feeling more comfortable about society seeing them as the men they are, felt freer to sew, or whatever.
08/10/09
Women: NEVER fuck this man. EVER.
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
I mean, "dominating my field of study"?? "Self-reliance?" "Strong emotionally"?
Are these not qualities also found in MANY women? Are these really STILL seen as gendered qualities? And if so, I hate what that suggests about their inverse, "feminine" qualities.
Seems some DO get it though: Those would be the ones mentioning clothing choices and gender roles (yes, one actually uses that term), who clearly understand they're celebrating a construct they've embraced.
08/10/09
That's when I feel feminine.
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09
08/10/09