For another perspective, the Channel 4 documentary "The Perfect Vagina" was an eye-opener: [www.channel4.com]
I vividly remember the woman who wanted labioplasty because she didn't look like the women in the porn her husband watched. They took her to an artist who was making a wall of plastercast vaginas, and her face when she realised she was perfectly normal was incredible.
By the by, I just read the article. It is a call for better research more than it is an actual comprehensive review. The authors conclude, "Our review has identiļ¬ed mainly anecdotes on which consumers and service providers can base their decisions. An acknowledgement of the need for quality research could not be discerned in the literature. "
In other words, their comparison to FGM (which, by the way, comprises a single sentence with no direct support or analysis), was likely used to draw attention to what they see as a dangerous elective surgery whose consequences have not been studied adequately.
However, there are no scientifically valid conclusions drawn in this literature review about medical outcomes of these surgeries, and there is definitely no real comparison made to FGM.
However, hopefully, the authors' wishes will come true, and someone will do a well-controlled clinical study to actual ask the questions that this article raises. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Seeing this image made me think of Wanda Sykes' routine and imagine her saying: "Sorry, it's in the shop right now."
But seriously - most elective surgery, to me, falls into the realm of vanity body-modification, like tattooing, scarification, piercings, or implants, to name a few. If someone wants to do that, research it and consider it carefully. Consider the real reasons behind wanting to do it; It's just possible that finding out why one wants to make a change like this is money much-better-spent. #vaginalplasticsurgery
My ladyflower is totally crying at this article. To undergo the pain and recovery of a labiaplasty, only to have it shred during childbirth? How fucking tragic. The whole thing is just so sad.
Didn't Jenna Jameson have plastic surgery on her labia? And wasn't she horribly depressed by the results? #vaginalplasticsurgery
@dumblonde: A c-section is major surgery and probably just as if not more damaging to the body than any potential tearing would be #vaginalplasticsurgery
@dumblonde: Even women who have had female genital cutting do not necessarily have to get C-Sections to deliver, and in fact often get unneccesary ones in the US (this happens a lot to immigrants and refugees) because doctors don't know that there are other options to allow for vaginal delivery. #vaginalplasticsurgery
That's absolutely horrifying, what that commenter reported about the "shredding" [shudders] but honestly, when I think about the women who are getting this done, i think about older women outside of their childbearing or rather child desiring years. I'm sure younger women get it too, but in my mind, it would seem silly to be rearranging things down there if you still intend on pushing a person out of it. #vaginalplasticsurgery
I'm a little bit confused about the quote, "ads that promote a "homogenised, pre-pubescent genital appearance"...I haven't seen too many advertisements with labia. The argument that this is prevalent in porn is, I would say, true. But not advertising.
Also, nature gave me very very tiny labia minora and hardly any pubic hair. Does this make me look pre-pubescent? Do you get more labia with puberty? Because I certainly didn't. So confused. And honestly a little bit hurt. I don't make fun of people with large labia so I don't appreciate my ladybits being called prepubescent when I am a 22-year-old woman.
@first man: As you are 22, your vag is, by definition, not pre-pubescent. However, labias do change as you get older and are measured by "Tanner Stages" ( [en.wikipedia.org]). Of course, there's a broad swathe of normal--if you're concerned, talk to your gyno, but you're probably fine. However, I don't think it's insulting to say your vagina "looks younger" or "looks older." It's yours. It's like saying "A 60 y/o woman without wrinkles looks 45." She's NOT 45, she's 60, but she LOOKS different from what typical biology would lead us to believe. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@first man: I don't want to get all TMI and shit, but...mine have changed since I was 22. I am 30. I expect they will change even more once I have kids. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Once I slept with a guy who told me my vagina "scared" him because it was too big. After that I was concerned less about the size of my vagina and more about the brain damage I must have suffered to assume this guy was worth sleeping with. #vaginalplasticsurgery
It reminds me of an ep of Sex and the City where Samantha is complaining about how small her boyfriend's penis is and he finally says, "Did you ever consider that maybe your vagina is just too big?!"
@RiloKilo: Or that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry (?) puts the heels of his hands together and makes a "V" shape to indicate a huge vagina. At the time, I was dating a guy with a smallish dick and he found this hilllllAAAArious. He was very insecure about the size of his wang and turned his insecurities into criticism of my vagina. It was totally obvious and transparent and I told him as much. And then I broke up with him and, even though it wasn't, I told him it was because he had a pencil dick. Mean and immature? Totally. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@FrabjousDay: One time a bf told me my clit was too big, and that it was really weird. He also told his asshole friend who hated me, and that friend went around telling all our mutual friends that it was "like a little penis" even though he had never seen it (obviously).
Hearing this acquaintance make comments in public about the abnormality of my naked body was one of the worst moments of my life, I still cringe so hard just thinking about it.
@alwaysapropos: What the hell? I am so sorry that happened to you. The friend of your ex-bf (I am assuming he is an ex) is a douche and a half, and your ex is two douches and a nozzle. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Ugh. This whole post makes me want to hug every woman I see and tell her, "your vagina is perfectly fine the way it is!" It's the fear of arrest that's stopping me. #vaginalplasticsurgery
"We live in times where we are much more open about our bodies"
I feel this is so wrong. We live in a time when we are much more closed about what passes for an acceptable body. We are stuck with a total hypocrisy which is the complete opposite of openness.
(with little pockets of true openness where people can see past all the crap thrown at us, but those have nothing to do with mainstream ideals)
@apricotmuffins: I mean, "much more open" compared to when? People didn't even wear underwear 500 years ago. And everyone except really really rich people slept in the same room, so you know that kids totally saw their parents boning. And being able to live through childbirth was totally more important than having pretty labia. It's all relative. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: That's true! That is just totally unfathomable to me, actually. I mean, privacy is something relatively new, unless you were super-rich, and it's so important to me. I can't imagine being unable to escape people! #vaginalplasticsurgery
@apricotmuffins: Right? If we were open about our bodies, we'd recognize that they come in a variety of shapes and sizes, and that those shapes and sizes are not limited to "Sasha Grey" and "Belladonna" or whatever. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: Also, I think back to the 60s and the hippie movement and how part of that movement was an acceptance of the human body in all its hairy, lumpy beautiful eccentricity. We opened ourselves up, got literally and figuratively naked socially, and then we saw each other naked and began to judge. We began to regress in terms of bodily taboos, but instead of hiding ourselves as a result, we're out in the open to be judged upon literally everything on our bodies, from our ankles to our labia. It's insane and feels so immensely regressive. #vaginalplasticsurgery
Wow, as someone who has always felt guilty and horrible about how 'ugly' and 'unfeminine' my labia were, this post really gets to me. I would never get surgery as I understand I fall into the range of what is perfectly normal and acceptable, but I can't say I haven't thought about it, and this post makes me sick over that fact. I would stab someone in the face who tried to convince me FGM was acceptable for me or any other woman, but here i am submitting my mind and mental wellbeing to the same idea, just a modern version of it. Its the same thing, and comes from the same place, and it is all about controlling and shaming women's bodies. Wow. I've swallowed so many things hook line and sinker even though i think i'm so liberated and smart. How can I be enraged at hatred directed at other women's bodies and yet absorb all that hatred into myself for my own? #vaginalplasticsurgery
@PerinealFavorite: "How can I be enraged at hatred directed at other women's bodies and yet absorb all that hatred into myself for my own?"
Good question. This, I think, is something that plagues most women. I mean, usually it's not even "hate FGM, also feel self-conscious about my non-designer vagina," it can be as mind-bending as "Hate plastic surgery, want plastic surgery," or "Hate pornography, consume pornography," "hate fat-hating culture, hate my fat ass, hate photoshopped images, desperately desire to look like cover model," etc. That's really the rub of the incredible, pervasive job marketing has done to our society (by which I mean US culture, because that's where I live).
I definitely still struggle with vast amounts of internalized patriarchal settings. But I also rail, hard, against the patriarchy. Since I came to terms with it, my own internalized patriarchal desires and impulses have just become one more thing I hate about the patriarchy. I hate that I live in a culture that says I must be pretty. I also hate that I'll never be pretty enough. I hate myself for wanting to be pretty almost as much as I hate myself for being ugly. It's really just a system designed to make you hate yourself no matter what ideological stance you take. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: you pretty much just described the daily battlefield of my mind. and the busier we stay hating ourselves, the easier it is to control us, subdue us, and keep us buying things that promise to make us feel happier. how do we let go of it? once we know what is going on shouldn't we be able to get around it? I know these are ridiculous questions because it is never that simple, but our mental well-being relies on us finding the answers. I just feel trapped, and I want to be an active member in the guerrila war against the patriarchy, changing one mind at a time, but i need to start with myself. I guess the key starts with not hating yourself for anything, as pat and trite as that sounds. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@PerinealFavorite: It's really easy, actually :( Emotions and logic don't always coincide. For example, have you ever watched a scary movie, and then are freaked out by little sounds, as if the bad things from the movie are coming to get you? Logically, you know they aren't. They weren't there before, and they aren't there now. But you can't stop being afraid, even though you know you're being silly.
I think it's the same thing with this. We hear over and over how unperfect regular people are, and that it's disgusting. And therefore, we are disgusting, too. I'm not sure where you come from, but where I come from, it's a huge taboo to be arrogant. You are not supposed to talk up your achievements. Instead, no matter how important what you've done is, you play it down like it's not that big of a deal, you were only part of a bigger movement and they deserve all the credit. That translates to our own feelings about ourselves. If we think we're good enough as-is, we are arrogant, rude and self-absorbed, perhaps even delusional. Most people don't want to be seen as those things (especially women feel pressure to be polite and nice), and try to balance how they really feel with how they "should" feel. "Should" feel wins out, because we aren't allowed to be arrogant (read: satisfied with ourselves). We are pressured to improve, edit, work on problems, better ourselves, fight the clock, etc. It's constant. And when you say "no" to all that, there is insurmountable pressure to join back in.
I do not wear makeup, nor skirts and heels. A lot of that has to do with my gender identity issues, but there is always some jackass who likes to inform me I'd be "so much prettier if [I'd] just do something with [myself]". My mom does the same thing. Actually, most people, if pressed, feel that way. We watch shows like What Not to Wear and other makeover shows, with people who look like us, yet their husbands, wives, friends and family think they are not attractive enough. We place ourselves there. Maybe they will love me more if I look the right way. We don't think that way verbatim. It's muddled up in so many thoughts - well, I have fat thighs, so maybe this cut of jean will make them look slimmer. I have this part of my body that I find attractive, so I play it up (usually eyes, and I think that's because there is so little you can do to change them). It's nip, tuck, pick apart and emphasize to "look our best" so we are professional, look happy, well cared for, "radiant" and any other host of very desirable qualities. We want to look happy, and therefore be happy.
That's why we can hate ourselves so much, and hate what we are pressured to do. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@PerinealFavorite: Please don't beat yourself up over it! I think many women fall prey to this to a certain extent. I know that I personally have a hard time with my stomach even though I know intellectually there is nothing wrong with it and would see nothing wrong with it if it belonged to another woman.
All this tells you is just how insidious patriarchal beauty ideals are. It's not a comment on your lack of brains or strength - not at all. #vaginalplasticsurgery
@Cimorene: Absolutely, to everything you just said. I struggle with this tension all the time. It's like, I would never, ever tell a friend that she should worry about looking pretty or skinny or anything like that and yet, sometimes, I look in the mirror and I just hate what I see. I'm glad though, that I am aware enough to catch myself and remind myself of where this self-hatred originates from. That is does not originate from any actual deficiency but from perceived deficiency generated by a system that thrives off of me (and everyone else) feeling inadequate. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
I vividly remember the woman who wanted labioplasty because she didn't look like the women in the porn her husband watched. They took her to an artist who was making a wall of plastercast vaginas, and her face when she realised she was perfectly normal was incredible.
#tips
11/11/09
That sonic boom you just heard was the sound of my knees snapping together. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
In other words, their comparison to FGM (which, by the way, comprises a single sentence with no direct support or analysis), was likely used to draw attention to what they see as a dangerous elective surgery whose consequences have not been studied adequately.
However, there are no scientifically valid conclusions drawn in this literature review about medical outcomes of these surgeries, and there is definitely no real comparison made to FGM.
However, hopefully, the authors' wishes will come true, and someone will do a well-controlled clinical study to actual ask the questions that this article raises. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
Seeing this image made me think of Wanda Sykes' routine and imagine her saying: "Sorry, it's in the shop right now."
But seriously - most elective surgery, to me, falls into the realm of vanity body-modification, like tattooing, scarification, piercings, or implants, to name a few. If someone wants to do that, research it and consider it carefully. Consider the real reasons behind wanting to do it; It's just possible that finding out why one wants to make a change like this is money much-better-spent. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
Didn't Jenna Jameson have plastic surgery on her labia? And wasn't she horribly depressed by the results? #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
Not that I support getting labioplasties but if there's a pattern of vaginal tearing and such, these women should not be giving birth... period.
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Also, nature gave me very very tiny labia minora and hardly any pubic hair. Does this make me look pre-pubescent? Do you get more labia with puberty? Because I certainly didn't. So confused. And honestly a little bit hurt. I don't make fun of people with large labia so I don't appreciate my ladybits being called prepubescent when I am a 22-year-old woman.
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It reminds me of an ep of Sex and the City where Samantha is complaining about how small her boyfriend's penis is and he finally says, "Did you ever consider that maybe your vagina is just too big?!"
Um, no. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
Hearing this acquaintance make comments in public about the abnormality of my naked body was one of the worst moments of my life, I still cringe so hard just thinking about it.
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NO. WAY. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
I feel this is so wrong. We live in a time when we are much more closed about what passes for an acceptable body. We are stuck with a total hypocrisy which is the complete opposite of openness.
(with little pockets of true openness where people can see past all the crap thrown at us, but those have nothing to do with mainstream ideals)
11/11/09
11/11/09
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11/11/09
Good question. This, I think, is something that plagues most women. I mean, usually it's not even "hate FGM, also feel self-conscious about my non-designer vagina," it can be as mind-bending as "Hate plastic surgery, want plastic surgery," or "Hate pornography, consume pornography," "hate fat-hating culture, hate my fat ass, hate photoshopped images, desperately desire to look like cover model," etc. That's really the rub of the incredible, pervasive job marketing has done to our society (by which I mean US culture, because that's where I live).
I definitely still struggle with vast amounts of internalized patriarchal settings. But I also rail, hard, against the patriarchy. Since I came to terms with it, my own internalized patriarchal desires and impulses have just become one more thing I hate about the patriarchy. I hate that I live in a culture that says I must be pretty. I also hate that I'll never be pretty enough. I hate myself for wanting to be pretty almost as much as I hate myself for being ugly. It's really just a system designed to make you hate yourself no matter what ideological stance you take. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
11/11/09
I think it's the same thing with this. We hear over and over how unperfect regular people are, and that it's disgusting. And therefore, we are disgusting, too. I'm not sure where you come from, but where I come from, it's a huge taboo to be arrogant. You are not supposed to talk up your achievements. Instead, no matter how important what you've done is, you play it down like it's not that big of a deal, you were only part of a bigger movement and they deserve all the credit. That translates to our own feelings about ourselves. If we think we're good enough as-is, we are arrogant, rude and self-absorbed, perhaps even delusional. Most people don't want to be seen as those things (especially women feel pressure to be polite and nice), and try to balance how they really feel with how they "should" feel. "Should" feel wins out, because we aren't allowed to be arrogant (read: satisfied with ourselves). We are pressured to improve, edit, work on problems, better ourselves, fight the clock, etc. It's constant. And when you say "no" to all that, there is insurmountable pressure to join back in.
I do not wear makeup, nor skirts and heels. A lot of that has to do with my gender identity issues, but there is always some jackass who likes to inform me I'd be "so much prettier if [I'd] just do something with [myself]". My mom does the same thing. Actually, most people, if pressed, feel that way. We watch shows like What Not to Wear and other makeover shows, with people who look like us, yet their husbands, wives, friends and family think they are not attractive enough. We place ourselves there. Maybe they will love me more if I look the right way. We don't think that way verbatim. It's muddled up in so many thoughts - well, I have fat thighs, so maybe this cut of jean will make them look slimmer. I have this part of my body that I find attractive, so I play it up (usually eyes, and I think that's because there is so little you can do to change them). It's nip, tuck, pick apart and emphasize to "look our best" so we are professional, look happy, well cared for, "radiant" and any other host of very desirable qualities. We want to look happy, and therefore be happy.
That's why we can hate ourselves so much, and hate what we are pressured to do. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09
All this tells you is just how insidious patriarchal beauty ideals are. It's not a comment on your lack of brains or strength - not at all. #vaginalplasticsurgery
11/11/09