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New York, 9:33 AM
Fri Nov 27
2 posts in the last 24 hours
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09/10/09
1. If you want to work for a company and you are not financially stable to work extremely low wages for years, you are screwed.
2. If you want to start a line, you better have millions in the bank / and or be a celebrity. Many of the small boutiques who mainly support independent designers have gone out of business or have a tough time paying their bills. As for department stores, those amazing 80% off sales are subsidized by the vendor--that's right, if I sell my items to a dept. store and they are discounted, I make up the difference. The company I work for goes an extra step and pays "discounts" to dept stores which essentially amount to us bribing them to carry our product. We are in an era where only the deepest pockets will survive, not the most talented.
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BTW, I didn't mean to suggest that people shouldn't pursue fashion, or any other field they feel drawn to, just that they should have a healthy acquaintanceship with the facts.
09/10/09
And plus, I think it's gotten sort of trendy. WIth all the fashion shows on TV, movies (like Devil Wears Prada) and all that crap.
09/10/09
I've taken classes at F.I.T, which, as you know, has tons of incredibly talented people in its fashion design programs, including many foreign students who are basically treating the program as a graduate school. I wonder how they're all going to find jobs in this economy.
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Do these kids look at the tuition? The room/board? God forbid what happens if you don't get a dorm. And if you go to Pratt, you have to be in Brooklyn!
(JK on the last one...)
09/10/09
09/10/09
It was incredible but I also busted my butt. I was in one of the buying offices and got to spend a lot of time with the Buying Program Trainees.
Those Trainees worked 24/7 and you had to go to special classes.
I don't know why people think these jobs are easy and always glamorous.
One friend worked in Bloomies main shoe department. During inventory, she was in tears. Only lingerie is worse.
09/10/09
09/10/09
I believe they do.
The summer I did my internship (back in the Stone Age), I met interns from Saks, Macy's, etc. We were all in "The City" running around like crazy. I learned a great deal.
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09/10/09
I think the fact that so many celebrities have lines now makes it seem easier and more fun - people forget that they're probably not doing much/any of the actual work.
09/10/09
09/10/09
i think that what we're seeing again what happens to an industry that's based on trends and money when the money runs out.
even now, the idea of designing and making and selling clothes seems fun and glamorous. but that's the idea, not the actual process.
09/10/09
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09/10/09
Eh, nevermind, no one ever wants to be the Miranda...
09/10/09
I can't sew a straight seam to save my life, even on a machine.
Sewing a straight seam on a machine is harder than sewing it by hand. Sewing takes a lot of practice.
09/10/09
This idea is so wrong and so damn prevalent that it makes me ill. People have no concept of what drawing actually is. Would anyone ever think to say to an accounting major that they don't need to know math, since it's all on the computer anyway?
Drawing is seeing. It's an expression of an idea, not a preconceived set of perfect little lines. If one can't do it on paper, one can't do it on the computer, either.
/end rant
09/10/09
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09/10/09
Most (not all, sadly) of these girls that I encounter switch to PR.
Just like a lot of other jobs/majors (as cheesy as it sounds) you do have to want it, you need to work, you need to know what your talking about, and you need the right mix of brains, connections, and the right internships. Even that doesn't guarantee success.
It's not all "CUTE SHOES" we have to know how to do *gasp* math.
09/10/09
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09/10/09
We had to spend a whole class teaching people how to use an architects ruler. No, I'm not joking.
09/10/09
09/10/09
I did one unpaid internship, and was glad of the experience, but have decided to avoid it in the future unless it is for a short time (i.e. British style 1- 2 week 'work experience') or an opportunity I absolutely can't say no to (interning with a professional idol). The reason, quite simply, is that I think the rise of internships is a trend towards exploitation, and I, personally, want to avoid being a part of that as much as possible, even if it means going a slightly less conventional route.
Interns do real work, albeit often menial, and real work, in my mind, should be paid. Furthermore, many internships are 'brotlose Künste', breadless arts in fields where you can never expect to get rich. The idea that, on top of that sacrifice, you would work for free 'because you love it so much' is laughable, and it's sad that that is what's often expected on resumes.
In addition, the expectation in many fields that candidates will have done a number of unpaid internships limits opportunity for people who don't have the money to support themselves.
I would outlaw them if they lasted longer than 2 weeks, myself. For the meantime, I settle for trying to avoid them.
09/10/09
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09/10/09
I was thinking instead of taking on another internship, it might be advantageous for me to work in the trenches of retail. Along with internships, having retail experience is kind of important. So there are options for people who don't want to work internships as they can get paid work in retail and that should count for something. There are people eventually turn their jobs in retail to working with the company.
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09/10/09
I also realize that this is a privileged position. During my favorite internship, I suppported myself with two other jobs on the side (night and weekend shifts), but I was able to rely on my parents during my other two unpaid internships, and I know that's not an option for a lot of people, and I certainly didn't earn the privilege.
09/10/09
I have a serious beef with students who feel they "deserve" a paid internships. Everyone I know had unpaid internships, some local, some farther away, it doesn't have to be some formal program, small companies hire interns constantly.
Work experience is important as well. I think students should try to do both.
09/10/09
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09/10/09
Um, what about that is easy and fun?
09/10/09
Still, it was a good time, and it's completely manageable if you're dedicated to the work.
09/10/09
09/10/09
I have to agree with Endora. I revamped the intern program at my old company because the Dept of Labor guidelines were being broken by people who saw interns as either free labor or toadies as opposed to it being a true learning experience.
If the kids are getting college credit for the experience, they are paying for the opportunity. I don't think it's wrong for them to expect a small stipend to, at the least, cover travel costs or food. I paid my way through college working 3 jobs and attending classes. I was able to spend a semester abroad for an internship only because one of my high school teachers was kind enough to sponsor me. I would not have been able to afford it otherwise. In my experience, in the entertainment and publishing industries, "internships" tend to weed out the underprivileged when it comes to hiring. It's not what you know or what your experience is, but where you interned.
Kids who are not already connected to the network of privilege have a hard time securing these opportunities and if they do, they have a hard time keeping them. I feel like paying them a little something evens out the playing field just a little bit.
09/10/09
09/10/09
I take your point about exposure to the workplace, but couldn't you get that within 2 weeks? Why stay several months?
This is probably more advanced in certain parts of Europe (i.e. Germany, where there has been talk of a 'generation internship' for years) but I see a dangerous trend towards getting rid of full-time workers and replacing them with cheap (or free) intern labour. I think that is a dangerous trend, not only for young workers, but for society as a whole.
And it's understandable people would want to do them to set themselves apart, but I still think it is a problematic development, and, really, that something should be done about it.
09/10/09
I don't blame the people who take internships for the problem, I blame the employers and governments who allow them to become more about cheap workers than about giving young people a chance to experience different industries.
09/10/09
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09/10/09
And flats and specs. That doesn't look easy.
09/10/09
Excellent points.
09/10/09
I don't know, I guess I don't think it's that big of a problem but perhaps I haven't been exposed to the same things?
I am actually pushing for an intern at the moment, and, frankly, they will be used mostly for organizing samples. However, I know that the exposure will be very beneficial and I certainly intend on taking on a kind of "mentor" role and involving the person in other tasks. It really depends on the intern and the manager, and this is true for ANY job, paid or unpaid.
Interning, for me, was always about job experience, not getting paid.
09/10/09
And of course, 2L summer she worked at Hale & Dorr and then went there out of law school.
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09/10/09
I'm showing my age here, but there was a time when interns were paid -- yeah, maybe it was a pittance and a half -- but companies that exploited their labor were expected to pay them something.
I recently interned in a field that I was interested in, and not only was I paid nothing, the people were quite cold: Although I worked quite hard, they showed absolutely no interest in getting to know me, so I didn't get the benefit of making contacts, which is the reason people do it.
Doing clerical work only teaches you so much, if anything.
09/10/09
09/10/09
Of course there are much worse forms of exploitation, I didn't mean to deny that.
And in reply to your other comment--the problem in Europe is that the majority of students based at European universities don't get credit for internships but are often expected to do them anyway. I think this might have changed in some countries since the Bologna reforms (I'm not terribly familiar with the new system), but for people who started studying at the same time as me, 2005, it was still the case.
If you're doing an internship there as an American student, you're still spared that whole problem, since you get the credit anyway. I did one, and many of my friends did too, but it was not a part of our college curriculum at all.
Of course there can be situations where it ends up being a great thing, and it sounds like you want it to be if you get an intern, but a lot of people who run internship schemes don't really care about the interns at all, and there is evidence that they are being used to do work that, 20 years ago, a paid worker would have done. I just can't get on board with that, which is why I think setting sensible limits for unpaid internships (a few weeks) or insisting they are paid, is necessary.
09/10/09
09/10/09
So, here's the breakdown...
Want to be a buyer? Learn to love Excel. Please don't expect that you will be attending fashion week.
Want to be a stylist? Learn to love the steamer and iron. Don't expect freebies.
Editor? Learn to love Starbucks runs and having any work credited to a higher up.
Visual? Learn to love unboxing product and climbing ladders.
Designer? Learn to love patterns for knit tops. Expect that you will eventually get over the dream of your own line and end up pumping out denim at Gap.
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09/10/09
My best friend is a buyer for a high end retailer. She was a stats major, isn't interested in fashion (aside from the context of meeting demand) and spends her days number crunching. It's seriously about as glamorous as being an accountant.
09/10/09
I'm not saying it's a one-to-one parallel with the fashion industry, but it's been an eye-opener.
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