I have to say that I am saddened by the commenters who argue Mackenzie's "side" of this story by accusing Bijou of lying or denying abuse as if there is a right way to respond to sexual abuse (go on Oprah) and a wrong way (deny, keep information private). Perhaps in 10 years Bijou will be writing a book of her own about her experiences. Many families and individuals work through these issues in private which is one of the reasons that therapy is confidential. I don't think any celebrity has a duty to expose his or her personal traumas in public unless they choose to.
I know that in the recovery movement "denial" is sinful but really it is a protective mechanism for us to be able to know what we need to know a little at a time as we can handle it emotionally.
For Mackenzie to be able to count on two hands, the people who knew what was going on...that's a lot of people.
There is so much coming out to corroborate her story, including the very typical way her family is closing ranks against her, even Bijou, who has as much as admitted to her own sexual abuse, as WilletteAntheia laid out below. It's so, so sad.
I support her telling her story. This sort of thing is still happening to other children. She was not able to help her little sister, but I hope that she can aid the healing in somebody out there.
Watching this family deal with the fallout of this makes me wonder how many other families -- without media glare -- are dealing with the same situation? This is the scary part -- there are parents doing the same thing to their children right now and I'm wondering what's going to happen to them.
Let me get on this soapbox for a second since this story is really sad. I only started to pay attention because of the backlash
1. I don't think she is doing this publicity now if she has told her siblings, family, and friends years ago.
2. If she is doing it to to sell books, it does not mean that the allegations are true.
3. Chynna believes it but she would not share the stage. Great support
3. Bijou's interview and song lyrics speaks volumes.
4.Genevive also confirmed it in her denial
5.Michele's biggest concern is that the "nieces and nephews" cant go to school today. Real considerate.
6.The fact that he is dead doesn't mean he didn't do it. He wasn't dead when she told some of these people and that's why they believe her.
7. I know is easier to blame it on drugs but most drug addicts do not have sex with their children.
I think she has wanted to tell this for a long time but she was stopped by her family and this time they could not stop her.
I'm *amazed* at Mackenzie's reaction to Michelle's statement. I don't know if I would have been so clear-headed and calm if someone had insulted me so deeply and defended my abuser the way her step-mother has.
That dignified reaction itself should be proof enough that Mackenzie is doing everything she can to get on the road to recovery. And fifteen years of sobriety is definitely not something to ignore.
One story I heard was that Michelle had an affair with Denny while the group was together and Cass was tormented because she was in love with Denny
John's response was, not to confront Michelle and Denny, but to write "I Saw Her Again Last Night" and while they were recording it, they all sorta "got" that John knew about Denny and Michelle.
If you listen to the song Denny comes in too soon with one "I saw her..." which was a mistake, but John decided to leave it as a reminder to how nervous Denny was while they were recording it as if John got the last laugh. Rumor had it that he could be passively vicious. Who knows what the hell was up with him?
I do believe that Michele is threatened by the blow to her royalty empire.
@miamaya: Then maybe she should explain why she said this in an interview about him in 2000.
BRUCE: Tell me about the new song you wrote — the one you were singing in the car on the way back from lunch.
BIJOU: The one about my dad? It sort of speaks for itself. I've made this decision not to talk to the press about anything that's gone on in my life, but just to write music about it. They can interpret it themselves.
BRUCE: There seemed to be some improprieties going on. You're talking about stuff in your music that's pretty heavy. Has anyone articulated it for you in the press?
BIJOU: No one has the balls to do it.
BRUCE: I'll do it.
BIJOU: [laughs] It's blatantly obvious.
BRUCE: The refrain in your new song is: "He touched me wrong." How much more blatant can you get?
BIJOU: I really want his balls busted, but I also want to be able to say, "It's just a song."
Michelle Phillips is a bitch. I know she's probably trying to protect her own ego, and is embarassed that a man she married did this to his own daughter. But it's still no excuse for not giving Mackenzie emotional support and dragging her name through the mud.
@Cherry Blossom Girl: I'm surprised that Michelle has so much trouble believing MacKenzie, considering that growing up, Michelle's mentor was Tamar Hodel, a woman who was forced to have a sexual relationship with her father at age 11, and whom has alleged she was forced into having orgies with her father's friends. It's discussed in this interview with Michelle: [www.flickr.com]
@cupcakebelly: Um, that's probably not the link you meant to put there?
There's more about Michelle and Tamar on this blog, and also an interview link:
"One thing that’s really bugging me is Michelle Phillips’ reaction. I like and admire Michelle, and if you read this Vanity Fair profile, you’ll understand why. She’s a strong, compassionate, self-aware, level-headed woman. And her best friend in girlhood, Tamar Hodel, was the victim of father-daughter incest:"
How could she protect her sister when she couldn't protect herself.
Survival mode can numb the senses.
Just because her father is dead doesn't miraculously heal her and allow her to think "normally".
I think the parent/child dynamic makes it impossible for it ever to be consensual.
I'll bet her mental age around that man never exceeded 11 years old.
I imagine once you've lived through the horror of what she went through, worrying about embarrassing your family on Oprah is trite in comparison.
I don't think that kind of damage can ever be erased.
BACK THE FUCK UP. Did mackenzie allude to the fact that she was saved by NARCONON? (The $cientology rehab corporation?) Seems like an important thread to follow up on, Jez.
I find it interesting that some who have commented here refer to Mackenzie's statements as if they are hypotheses, waiting to be proved. Her siblings and peers have validated her statements.
For me, a victim always gets "the benefit of the doubt." It is similar to the burden of proof at law or equity. I know that some find it unfair to place the burden of proof, or rebuttal, on John, because he is dead, but I don't. If Mac were just some defeated daughter trying to sell books with such provocative claims, people would be coming out of the woodwork to defend John's name. They are not. The only people contradicting Mac are two ex-wives, who have an interest in their own reputations, and who only responded when prodded.
@wontonnyc: Agreed. Michelle and Genevieve were probably fully aware of what was going on (based on Genevieve's statement about Mac being overly friendly with her father) and never did anything about it or simply ignored it. Guilt and self-preservation seem to be driving their statements.
@ChickLaValle: Michelle had split up with John and moved across the country to LA with Chynna years before the alleged incest began. I don't see any reason to assume she had an idea about the incest before Mackenzie called her an Chynna up about it in 1997 and then said she was joking. She had shown willingness to intervene with John's other kids before. She seized little Tamberlane to live with her and put him in therapy after becoming concerned with Chynna's report of lots of hard drug use at John's place after one of Chynna's rare visits with John. John and Genevieve crossed the country and kidnapped Tam to get him back.
Okay, I know we're all hating on Michelle, but Genevieve's comment really pissed me off:
I am stunned by Mackenzie's terrible allegations about her father. I would often complain about her overly familiar attitudes towards him, and he said it was just her way.
No shit. If it quacks like a duck, it might be a duck. If you noticed strange behavior, your stepdaughter's claim that she has been taken advantage of sexually is probably not a lie. To say that and then claim Mackenzie is lying is idiotic.
@Bunsen Honeydew: Yeah. When children (and adult children fall into this category, because we are all somehow infantilized when around our families) behave in a sexually precocious manner towards a family member it is one of the glaring signs of abuse. People learn how to treat people in appropriate ways. People in power are the ones who need to set the boundaries. ugh.
@Bunsen Honeydew: I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I believe Mackenzie; but, just to play Devil's Advocate, one could argue that Mackenzie's "overly familiar attitude towards" her father was the product of a fantasy she had about sleeping with him, about NOT sharing him with two stepmothers and two younger sisters, about keeping him with her mother and her own immediate family. I do believe her, but her life was so screwed up from inception that it's hard to know if part of this isn't a fantasy, a means of controlling her dad, who was so totally out-of-control, and who left her at such a tender age.
@WhoaMama: You know, I'm going to pull out Occam's Razor here and say that it is probably far more likely that she was actually abused by her dad than it is that she developed some neo-Freudian fantasy world that she was unable to differentiate from reality.
Something I've learned in working with substance users:
The people I've worked with have experienced trauma, a lot of the time childhood sexual abuse, & opiate use is how they deaden themselves from the emotional pain that they constantly suffer. So when Michelle Phillips says that Mackenzie's story is fabricated because she's delusional & a drug addict she couldn't be more backwards: Mackenzie used heroin & cocaine because of her story. It is unfortunately not unheard of that a child is shot up with drugs & then raped by his/her father or another family member or friend of the family. It happens & I completely believe her.
@Charlotte Rae's Web: Her father introduced her to drugs and taught her to shoot up from a very young age. That is something no one in her family disputes, and it is itself abuse.
09/28/09
I know that in the recovery movement "denial" is sinful but really it is a protective mechanism for us to be able to know what we need to know a little at a time as we can handle it emotionally.
09/27/09
09/27/09
There is so much coming out to corroborate her story, including the very typical way her family is closing ranks against her, even Bijou, who has as much as admitted to her own sexual abuse, as WilletteAntheia laid out below. It's so, so sad.
I support her telling her story. This sort of thing is still happening to other children. She was not able to help her little sister, but I hope that she can aid the healing in somebody out there.
09/26/09
09/26/09
1. I don't think she is doing this publicity now if she has told her siblings, family, and friends years ago.
2. If she is doing it to to sell books, it does not mean that the allegations are true.
3. Chynna believes it but she would not share the stage. Great support
3. Bijou's interview and song lyrics speaks volumes.
4.Genevive also confirmed it in her denial
5.Michele's biggest concern is that the "nieces and nephews" cant go to school today. Real considerate.
6.The fact that he is dead doesn't mean he didn't do it. He wasn't dead when she told some of these people and that's why they believe her.
7. I know is easier to blame it on drugs but most drug addicts do not have sex with their children.
I think she has wanted to tell this for a long time but she was stopped by her family and this time they could not stop her.
09/26/09
That dignified reaction itself should be proof enough that Mackenzie is doing everything she can to get on the road to recovery. And fifteen years of sobriety is definitely not something to ignore.
09/26/09
John's response was, not to confront Michelle and Denny, but to write "I Saw Her Again Last Night" and while they were recording it, they all sorta "got" that John knew about Denny and Michelle.
If you listen to the song Denny comes in too soon with one "I saw her..." which was a mistake, but John decided to leave it as a reminder to how nervous Denny was while they were recording it as if John got the last laugh. Rumor had it that he could be passively vicious. Who knows what the hell was up with him?
I do believe that Michele is threatened by the blow to her royalty empire.
09/26/09
[twitter.com]
09/26/09
BRUCE: Tell me about the new song you wrote — the one you were singing in the car on the way back from lunch.
BIJOU: The one about my dad? It sort of speaks for itself. I've made this decision not to talk to the press about anything that's gone on in my life, but just to write music about it. They can interpret it themselves.
BRUCE: There seemed to be some improprieties going on. You're talking about stuff in your music that's pretty heavy. Has anyone articulated it for you in the press?
BIJOU: No one has the balls to do it.
BRUCE: I'll do it.
BIJOU: [laughs] It's blatantly obvious.
BRUCE: The refrain in your new song is: "He touched me wrong." How much more blatant can you get?
BIJOU: I really want his balls busted, but I also want to be able to say, "It's just a song."
[www.indexmagazine.com]
09/26/09
09/26/09
[www.flickr.com]
09/27/09
There's more about Michelle and Tamar on this blog, and also an interview link:
"One thing that’s really bugging me is Michelle Phillips’ reaction. I like and admire Michelle, and if you read this Vanity Fair profile, you’ll understand why. She’s a strong, compassionate, self-aware, level-headed woman. And her best friend in girlhood, Tamar Hodel, was the victim of father-daughter incest:"
[www.reclusiveleftist.com]
09/27/09
[www.vanityfair.com]
09/26/09
Survival mode can numb the senses.
Just because her father is dead doesn't miraculously heal her and allow her to think "normally".
I think the parent/child dynamic makes it impossible for it ever to be consensual.
I'll bet her mental age around that man never exceeded 11 years old.
I imagine once you've lived through the horror of what she went through, worrying about embarrassing your family on Oprah is trite in comparison.
I don't think that kind of damage can ever be erased.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
For me, a victim always gets "the benefit of the doubt." It is similar to the burden of proof at law or equity. I know that some find it unfair to place the burden of proof, or rebuttal, on John, because he is dead, but I don't. If Mac were just some defeated daughter trying to sell books with such provocative claims, people would be coming out of the woodwork to defend John's name. They are not. The only people contradicting Mac are two ex-wives, who have an interest in their own reputations, and who only responded when prodded.
09/26/09
Sad, very sad.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/26/09
I am stunned by Mackenzie's terrible allegations about her father. I would often complain about her overly familiar attitudes towards him, and he said it was just her way.
No shit. If it quacks like a duck, it might be a duck. If you noticed strange behavior, your stepdaughter's claim that she has been taken advantage of sexually is probably not a lie. To say that and then claim Mackenzie is lying is idiotic.
09/26/09
09/26/09
09/27/09
09/25/09
The people I've worked with have experienced trauma, a lot of the time childhood sexual abuse, & opiate use is how they deaden themselves from the emotional pain that they constantly suffer. So when Michelle Phillips says that Mackenzie's story is fabricated because she's delusional & a drug addict she couldn't be more backwards: Mackenzie used heroin & cocaine because of her story. It is unfortunately not unheard of that a child is shot up with drugs & then raped by his/her father or another family member or friend of the family. It happens & I completely believe her.
09/26/09
09/27/09
09/28/09
09/28/09
this is a tautological statement.