@missdelite: Did I say it didn't bother me? I didn't say that, and that's not the issue. The issue is that this is not, by any stretch, an appropriate place to comment on it.
Email hortense, email Anna, and/or mention it in the Readers Roundup at 3:30 EST -- if it's not actually being worked on right now, by one of the hard-working editors or contributors or interns.
There was a transient man in his 50s who just got busted for looking at child pornography at my local library, where I take my 2 little girls. It made me want to retch.
I think if sexual offenders are deemed likely to reoffend, they need to continue to be held under supervision indefinitely. None of this "but he has a low IQ and he was abused" bullshit. That sucks, and there's another series of problems there, but I'm more interested in protecting kids and ending the abuse cycle than protecting the civil rights of someone with a dangerous sexual disorder.
A friend of mine knows several people on the UK vice squad and told me a few things:
1) The child porn problem is so huge that is saps much of the resources from other areas of vice crime (ie smuggling women as sex slaves)
2) That the officers who have to view this stuff end up traumatised after a short time and have to be shipped out.
3) That porn addictions seem to escalate, which is why I'm not remotely surprised that the stuff that's out there is more hardcore. Some people don't even begin as paedophiles per se, they just get hooked on collecting, and when you collect you always want the new "best" thing, and in this case it's the more depraved the better. Another poster mentioned that the photos only appear for a short period of time, which would only spur on that urge to collect and make them seem like precious commodities.
If you guys are curious about the sick way in which pedophiles try to justify thier actions and attraction, there are LOTS of them on anontalk.com. It's a very very anonymous messageboard that for some reason is sull of pedophiles trying to justify themselves.
warning: not for the faint of heart
Also, there's no actual child pornography on that site, just a lot of discussion about it. It's pretty soul-killing to reason sometimes, but hey, it might give you some insight.
as a spam analyst for a networking company i see a lot of porn, including child porn, and when we come accross it we go to ASACP.com to report it anonymously. If you guys wanna post it, or add it to here that'd be awesome. it really helps in the fight against these sites.
Because this post is reminding a lot of people about abuse they survived, I want to post the following link, to RAINN, the Rape, Abuse, and Incest National Network. [centers.rainn.org] You can do a search to find a local crisis center.
I was an RCC counselor for 5 years, and I strongly encourage anyone who is either triggered by this story, or feels they need more support than they have gotten, or has a story they still haven't told anyone, to get in touch with an RCC in your area, or to call a hotline. TALKING ABOUT IT HELPS. It may hurt like hell at first, but then, it helps.
I saw an Oprah episode last week about child pornography, and simply hearing the description of some of the tapes the police had found was so unsettling that I can't stop thinking about it. People are truly depraved. Did anybody else see that episode?
@thesciencegirl: Yes. It was horrific. I can't imagine the hell those police officers, police officers, defense attorneys must endure seeing those videos. I really hope the state pays for counseling and leave time.
@thesciencegirl: yes, I saw it and was horrified as well. I was surprised in the case where the high school kid was actually the one in possession of the images (when they thought initially it was the father). Though as someone said up thread, it often starts young. Ugh it makes me sick to my stomach, its overwhelming how sick people can be.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: more than police officers have to see those things. they're on the internet as well as in homes on tapes. lots of internet security people see that. in order for it to be blocked by parental controls? had to have been seen.
@Elizabeth Flick: Good point. I used to sell computers and one of the stores I was at was repairing a persons computer and found a whole databank. They immediately called the police, but I felt so bad for the technician who's just doing his job and comes across it.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: Some police officers don't consider it hell at all. One of LA's finest was arrested last week for quite the home internet collection of child porn.
Did anyone hear Fresh Air's broadcast yesterday on the child sex abuse scandals on Pitcairn Island, a small island in the South Pacific? It was horrific and deeply disturbing how child abuse can be so, well, normalized. [www.npr.org]
@Sophie needs to study...damn: Yes I did. It was indeed horrific. I don't know how a man can experience his daughter being raped and then go out and rape some other young girl. As I said above it's a sad statement about my sex.
"If there's a Paradise, it should be Pitcairn Island. The island, a mile-by-mile-and-a-half crag of dark volcanic rock marooned in the middle of the South Pacific, is home to just 47 people, mostly descendants of the famed mutineers from the British ship Bounty. The islanders pass their days hoeing peppers and sweet potatoes, fishing for shark from flat-bottomed canoes, and shooting down breadfruit from the trees with their muskets.
There are no roads, no cars, no airstrip, no banks, no currency and no office hours. And, until recently, Pitcairn, a British overseas territory, boasted of having no crime. In 1991, when I stayed there for four months, no prosecutions had been brought in the island's two-century history, and none were foretold. The nearest sizable landmass - where you'll also find the closest lawyer, hospital, supermarket, high school and public phone booth - is 3,000 miles across the ocean in New Zealand.
When the mail arrived, lowered over the side of passing ships into the island's longboat, the Pitcairners opened the sacks of letters as they sat on the long bench in the square of the only settlement, Adamstown, and chuckled over their contents. The letters were from people pleading for permission to visit this perfect place.
The islanders had reason to laugh. They knew, even though the wider world learned only recently, that Pitcairn is far from paradise. While distant dreamers imagined the island as an embodiment of perfection, child molesting was endemic. Girls were taken into the banana groves, pinned down and raped, sometimes by more than one man. This week, after a four-week trial, five Pitcairn men - half the men on the island - were found guilty of a horrific string of sexual offenses against minors stretching back more than 40 years (a sixth man pleaded guilty earlier). The island's mayor, Steve Christian, was convicted on five counts of rape against children as young as 12; he was sentenced yesterday to three years. Another man, Terry Young, was convicted of indecent assault on a 7-year-old, and more prosecutions are planned.
Such disturbing crimes are often attributed to the influences of modern society, from pornography on the Internet to the dissolution of the nuclear family. But on the remote island of Pitcairn, you can't tune in to a single TV channel, while Internet access is only a recent innovation. And the ties of community are very strong; there are only nine families, sharing four surnames. Everything commonly denounced as corrupting is absent. So why is such a pocket-sized island not Paradise, but an outcrop of Hell?
Throughout the trial, victims testified to simply putting up with abuse because there was nowhere to go and no one they could tell (in the last decade or so, for instance, only a handful of outsiders have been allowed to stay any length of time on Pitcairn). Both perpetrators and victims described this sexual "breaking in'' as normal. Men could molest without fear of censure. The risks of falling out with your neighbor/close relative/daughter's rapist were far too great; the Pitcairners rely on each other for absolutely everything, from sharing the fish and the food they grow to manning the longboats, the only way of reaching the passing ships that are the sole source of supplies.
In such an atmosphere, petty tyrants flourish. Steve Christian, who led many of the attacks, is not only mayor, but also skipper of the island's longboat and its mechanic. When the nearest mechanic's shop is 3,000 miles away, the ability to fix the island's only tractor or restart the generator is too valuable to be threatened. The community needed Steve Christian.
At a distance, a small community like Pitcairn seems an Eden compared to the dangers of urban life. We feel such a self-reliant place will provide a blueprint for a rosier future. But as this week's verdicts reveal, isolated communities are neither happier nor healthier places to raise our children. Free from the moderating gaze of outsiders and the rule of impartial law, abuse can continue unchecked. There are no police officers or lawyers to turn to, no place to escape. Big amorphous cities, not small homogenous communities, are where we have the opportunity to flourish.
If anything, the lesson from Pitcairn Island is, for your children's sake, live in New York."
@token_y_chromosome: That whole island's population flourished beacause of rape. I raised my eyebrow when the author said the men who revolted against the captain turned the ship around, "picked up" a dozen ladies from the Caribbean and sailed to Pitcarin Island. Yeah, like a pretty lady seeing a ship full of dirty men who speak another language would just jump at the chance to sail far away. Uh huh.
It just seemed like rape was so intertwined in the culture that it was literally impossible for both men and women to see that raping girls at 7 and 8 is a BAD THING to do.
@Sophie needs to study...damn: Whoa. I am bugging out. I remember reading about Pitcairn Island in some history or geography book, probably by Jared Diamond. I had no idea this was going on there. So fucking sad.
@Sophie needs to study...damn: They had to know that it was a bad thing. How can you see the effect it has on your own daughter and not know? One would have to be self-centered beyond all measure. Then again, listening to the interview it seems like that's how these guys were. They were the center of their own little universe and got whatever they wanted.
@token_y_chromosome: But recall that it was the women who gathered to deny the accusations as well. They defended their husbands, brothers, and neighbors. Even though many of them were victims of child rape as well. In both the men and women's mind it wasn't abuse--just a part of growing up.
@nwporn: I wish I could agree. But, in terms of the resources devoted by police departments vs the sheer amount of child sexual abuse means that those who they are able to aggressively investigate and prosecute are just the tip of the iceberg. Also, the punishments for possession of this material, at least in Canada, are quite lenient, despite having volumes of images.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: The punishments where I practice law are severe. In Oregon, possession of single image buys you 70 months (No parole, no early release, no programs, no exceptions) and lifetime registration as a sex offender. If you possess multiple images, the state can seek consecutive 70 month sentences for each image.
The federal government and local law enforcement spend lots of time and money investigating and arresting people for child porn. Internet service providers make every effort to assist the police. There are many volunteers working to locate child pornographers. People go to prison for a long long time in the US for these offenses. These cases are very difficult to defend because of the strong public sentiment about people accused of these crimes.
@nwporn: I wish they would get 70 months here. I have seen lots of Oprah shows where police officers talk about being underfunded in terms of the sheer amount this abuse that's out on the internet. So even if lots of resources go to investigations and prosecutions, it's still only a small percentage. I'm not sure how you change this given the low cost of production vs. the high cost of investigation and limited resources. I just want to be clear that my comment wasn't a dig at the efforts of police officers (which I normally make digs at here) but just the sheer enormity of the problem.
Will this item be getting decent play on non-women-oriented blogs? Will it cross-post, say, to Gawker? Or will decidedly male-oriented blogs approach the issue?
Because while I do think that child porn is a result of something being literally WRONG with the adults involved, those adults are usually men. And if men were to have the problem on their radar, it would be helpful.
@ellaesther: I doubt male- oriented blogs will approach this issue. Sometimes, I think that they (some of them) don't necessarily view it as the problem that it SHOULD be regarded as. I have always wondered, at times, how many men would have sex with a small girl if they were 100% positive they would never be caught. I am very disturbed at what I think the truth might be.
@oh.geez.: Sadly, I agree. I've heard more men than I care to think of who theoretically rationalize sex with young girls. The rationalization usually goes along the lines of that if the child understands what is happening and consents then the child should be free to make that choice. Basically, treating children as small people with fully formed and adult brains, despite the fact that this is demonstrably false. I've ended a few friendships over that discussion.
@oh.geez.: That's an interesting thought. I've often tried to understand the mentality behind my babysitter's decision to rape me - he was 16 years old at the time, I was 4 - and I just can't figure it out. The only thing I can come up with is that he was really curious about having sex, and I possessed a readily available vagina. Based on his reactions afterward, I don't think he expected it to hurt me as much as it did (like, I was screaming ad bleeding for days afterward) and I think he thought he would be able to keep it a secret. And it wasn't like he got aroused by the sight of me, as he had to use a porn magazine to get himself hard. Like, he put it right by my head and looked at that the entire time.
(Yes, this was 25 years ago and I still have the most insanely vivid memories of it. I still know what I was wearing.)
But even still, I don't understand. Was I really dehumanized that much in his eyes that he saw me as nothing more than a vagina? It is so odd to me.
@oh.geez.: "The Other Side of Desire" (Daniel Bergner)started as an NYimes magazine article an a sex offender who had to register for soliciting his step daughter online...he'd never been attracted to her but (according to him) "snapped" when she hit puberty at 11.
Anyway in the book he describes studies and surveys regarding what men would doo if they could get away with it...and the number of men who would have sex with minors, coercively rape adults, and rape children under the age of 12 if they knew they'd get away with it. If you Google that I don't think you'd have trouble finding it at all.
Fantasy (however disturbing) is one thing, so long as it's never acted on...hell, even "sex with teens" has some gray areas, depending on the circumstances/age of the partners....
It IS depressing, though, to consider that many "normal" people--when being 100% for a survey--can admit that they would rape a child or an adult and are simply held back due to (tenuous, arguably) barriers. I hope like hell that there's additional sense of inhibition (moral...not just practical) that the surveys weren't thorough enough to pick up.
I hope you don't mind me asking this and please don't feel compelled to reply if you don't want, but what was his reaction afterward? I'm assuming something bad must have happened to him because some adult noticed your bleeding?
@SarahMC: ball-cutting cybersuccubus: Thanks. And I am actually fine answer any questions, as I've pretty well processed this by now. But immediately afterward, when he saw me bleeding, he started to freak out and he tried to blot up the blood with some toilet paper, all while he was begging me to stop crying and trying to get me to promise I wouldn't tell anyone.
Of course, I told my parents, who called the police. My details on what happened next are really sketchy, as my dad refuses to talk about it and my mom can't talk about it without losing her shit, but as far as I know, he was put in jail for a day or two and then let out. I don't think there was ever a trial or that he was ever sent to juvenile detention or anything. It was the first time he had ever gotten in trouble and he was an Eagle Scout and all that crap, and I guess they figured it would all just go away. So yeah, within a week he was living across the street from us again.
I really wish I could talk to my parents about this without them losing their shit. *sigh*
Of course, my suspicion is that he and his family were Mormon, and we were not, and this was in Utah in the early 80s. I'll leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions.
@whynotshesaid: Oh my effing god, girl. Tell me you've been in therapy (says the rape survivor who refuses to get therapy). Of course you still have memories of this. There are no words to describe what happened to you. I truly think men and boys like this do not possess a conscience, or at least the kind of conscience we associate with being a functioning, empathic being. I have a four year old daughter and the entrance to her vagina has the circumfrance of a dime, at best. How a man/boy could even compare the genitalia of a little girl with a woman, I'll never know. Babysitter deserved life in prison for that one. You are so strong!
@whynotshesaid: I don't understand how people can think that such behaviour is just an aberration that will magically clear up on it's own. I think that it stems from a belief that if you try to do something it's an acknowledgment that this person, on some level, thought this was a permissible action, and they don't want to believe that a good Eagle Scout could actually think that way.
I am glad to hear that you've managed to deal with it. I lived across the street from my abuser and it totally fucks with your sense of security. I hope that one day you'll be able to talk about with your parents.
@SarahMC: ball-cutting cybersuccubus: Don't worry, you totally aren't. I know a lot of people are curious and that a lot of survivors aren't comfortable talking about what happened to them, and so I have kind of made a point to be okay with talking about when the situation calls for it. so no worries.
Mom just starts ranting and crying and talking about how she wants to kill him and saying she's so sorry for failing to protect me. I've tried but she is so clearly upset by what happened that I'd almost rather not.
@whynotshesaid: Oh honey, that is horrifying. I'm so sorry that happened to you, and I'm so sorry that your parents can't talk to you about it. Could you let them know, say in a letter, that you need to talk about it with them, and you need them to be supportive? I used to be a counselor at a Rape Crisis Center, and it's often true that those who are supposed to support the survivor need support themselves -- and they forget that that need must be secondary to the needs of the survivor. If you were to call/go to an RCC or women's health clinic or some such, I'm sure you could find someone to help talk you through this. Your parents had your back when you most needed them -- they called the cops and validated that you had been abused -- but you need them to have your back now, too.
@Mama Penguino: *blush* I appreciate that. And you know, the same for you. Anyone who can live through rape and come out intact on the other side is a hero in my eyes.
The therapy situation was kind of messed up. My parents kept putting me in and taking me out of it. The last time I tried, my dad insisted on sitting in on the sessions, and then my stepmom decided I was lying to the therapist and they cancelled my appointments with her. So any therapizing (is that a word?) I've kind of done on my own by reading a lot of books, talking with close, understanding friends and letting myself grieve over what happened. But really, actual therapy might have sped up the process a bit. as it was, it took like two decades for me to come to grips with it!
(I hope you are doing okay as well. I understand not wanting to get therapy, and I just hope you are doing okay.)
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: Oh god, you too? Isn't that just the worst? It's like, here you are, this disgusting asshole who has ruined me, and I have to look at you all the time on top of it? I am hoping you have managed to deal with it as well - how long ago was that?
And yeah, I figured that there were several layers of repression at play, not the least of which was that there was this good Mormon kid from this good Mormon family, and here he was, accused of doing this totally heinous thing. What was really sad was later, when I was about 18 or so, I went online and found several other stories from people who had gone through similar things, not only being sexually abused, but also at the hands of church members, and then seeing it all swept under the rug as if it never happened.
@whynotshesaid: Hey, I was 17 and better equipped to handle the situation, such as it was. I hate to say this, but some mothers and fathers just aren't able to handle their daughters' rape. My own mother just cried and couldn't talk about it and I didn't even tell her until I was 30 years old! My sister, god love her, didn't understand and thought I'd just had a "morning after" experience and regretted the sex (even though I was a virgin!). I've done my healing just like you; through books and friends and a lot of thinking. I credit my breakthrough to the last therapist I tried about four years ago who, after I told the whole sordid story (first time in my life), said, "Oh, I understand. I was on a date in college once and the man tried to make me perform oral sex on him and I was so scared but he took me home." No, I'm not kidding. The ridiculousness of it all just freed me somehow. I hope for you that freedom one day. And again, I'm sorry to say it, but it will no doubt be without your parents. I have no doubt they cannot forgive themselves. I hope I wouldn't act the same way if Little P were raped at that age, but I can see myself falling to pieces and feeling responsible. I wish both our sets of parents were stronger for us, but as I said, you are strong enough for all of them!
@ellaesther: I appreciate the suggestion. Some day I may do just that, when I feel ready to tear open those old wounds again. I agree that my parents still need to heal from what happened, because as far as I can tell they haven't. Even my little sister, who was all of a baby at the time - she wasn't there - cannot talk about it without getting completely bent out of shape. I find it sadly ironic that the one who was actually raped is probably the one who has most healed from it, and I think you are right, that the idea that this was a traumatic thing for them was kind of glossed over as taking care of me was the big priority.
@Mama Penguino: Oh sweetie. I'm sorry. There are all kinds of horrible in this world, and what you went through is horrible. I hope that someday you can talk about it with your parents -- they should have been there for you, and they failed you. (As did that therapist! My god!) I'm so, so sorry.
@whynotshesaid: I was also 4, although I was not raped. I was at a friends house and her grandfather molested both of us. It took be a good 20 years to fully deal with it and another 3 or 4 to get over the self-harming behaviours that I developed as coping mechanisms. For years I had no idea why I was terrified whenever I went over to another friends house and the dad or another male was around. It took a long time to unravel all the connections I had made and the instinctual reactions I developed.
My parents were very supportive but chose not to contact the police because there was no physical evidence and they believed it would have been more traumatic for me to have endured questioning and possibly not being believed than to inform the family what happened and to never let me go over there again. I understand why my parents made that choice, especially in light of the difficulty of mounting a child sex prosecution, even when there is evidence, but it took me a long time to let go of not feeling responsible for not doing more (which is ridiculous because I was 4), especially as I know he abused his granddaughter and most likely other girls.
It no longer surprises me how much gets swept under the rug, just makes me sad and angry.
@Mama Penguino: Oh my hell. Can I just throttle your therapist for you? Or at least find a way to revoke his or her license? That is just some flat-out bullshit there.
I am so happy to hear that you've managed to make your peace. Sometimes I think I may have been luckier to be so young when it happened, because at least it was just kind of obvious to everyone that what happened to me was fucked up and I was not to blame. I mean, I certainly didn't have any therapists saying shit like that to me, nor did anyone try to pass it off as "regrettable sex." (WTF?) I imagine that would have made it harder to deal with what happened.
As far as emotional freedom, I actually feel okay about everything that happened. Really, the reason why I'd like to know is because I'm writing a book about a portion of my life, and I just realized that I have all these big blank spots in my recollection, so at this point it would be more to satisfy my curiosity than anything. These days, I more feel sorry for everyone else, including my rapist, because I can't imagine what a fucked-up person he must be to have thought what he did was permissable. I mean, really. A four year old? It's just gross.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: You touched on something here that I think is so important to repeat to adult survivors of childhood abuse: You were (fill in the blank) years old...!
You were a little, little girl, and you had no autonomy or tools. The world of adults should have protected you -- that's their job. Would you put any blame on your niece/daughter/next door neighbor if it happened to her?
I'm so sorry this happened, honey, and so glad you feel so much better now.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: Oh damn. I am so sorry. My heart is breaking for little Ms. Crankypants, feeling like she could have done something to stop it. I would like to hug both you and her at the same time.
I think I understand that, though, because it let you feel like you had a bit of control in what happened. I know that, for me, I had a couple of years when I was 7 or 8, where I told other kids I had had sex, because it was easier for me to think of it as me having had sex than being raped.
And the being terrified of being alone with older men...that was something I didn't shake until I was well into my 20s. I used to be afraid of penises, too. Kept me from having sex again until I was 17. You are right, it leaves such an imprint all over your mind that it takes a while to understand the full extent of the damage left behind.
I am happy you had supportive parents who believed you. I am also happy that you've found a way to deal without hurting yourself. I am just really sorry that you ever had to go through that.
@whynotshesaid: I just want to make sure that my point was clear that I'm coming from a position of looking for support for you.
That wasn't ok that that happened. People in support positions need to be able to put their own needs aside, because the needs of the survivor -- your needs -- are paramount. They need to get whatever help they need from someone other than you, and allow you to need them in whatever way you need them.
@whynotshesaid: I am sending hugs to you as well. I went through a bit of therapy a year and a half ago and it really helped to organize things in my mind and really let go of any residual guilt/shame that I was feeling. It might help you to fill in the details, if you want to do so. I think the most important thing is finding a therapist you feel comfortable with and not some asshole like@Mama Penguino: 's therapist.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: Oh honey, I know. It's a thing that just sits in your heart. I hope that you're in a place of understanding it now.
@whynotshesaid: because it let you feel like you had a bit of control in what happened -- I think that's a big piece of it for a lot of survivors. In taking it away, saying "no, really, you did not cause this," some women I worked really felt shamed, at first, I think -- it took awhile to forgive themselves for having been children.
@Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: What? You don't want to hear about some old lady's blow job days? Then you really don't want to hear her suggestion: that I contact the rapist in order to give him the chance to apologize. I know, I know!!!
@ellaesther: Oh, I got that. But I do think that your point about my family needing support of their own is a very valid one, and I think it went overlooked. And now the end result is that I am the only one who seems to be really capable of having a calm, reasonable discussion about it.
@Mama Penguino: HULKSMASH. How did this woman ever become a therapist? Don't they have, like, requirements and tests and stuff? Or are they just letting anyone in these days?
@Mama Penguino,@ellaesther, @Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: I have to go run some errands but I wanted to give huge Jezehugs to all of you before I did so. I appreciate having the chance to talk to other women who understand and are supportive. So often it seems like people just have such a visceral emotional reaction to stories like ours (understandably) that it's hard to have a reasonable talk about it, so I am very grateful that we were able to share our stories like this. *BIG HUGS*
@Mama Penguino: OMG I seriously just about died of laughter. Yes, call your rapist so he can apologize because, you know, if there's something rapists understand, it's social graces and appropriate behaviour. Then you can call Dick Cheney and invite him over a tea party to discuss world peace and frolic with tiny woodland creatures.
I just watched The Changeling last night, and I was appalled by the mentality of the child murderer in the movie. I don't understand what would motivate someone to abuse or kill a child, its horrifying. Just curious as to what many of these abusers/murderers have in common.
GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. AESOP'S FOIBLES- ARMED WITH GRENADES, LENGTHS OF ROPE, DAGGERS, SWITCHBLADES, AND MACHETES OF VARYING SIZES- KILLS PEOPLE. BUT NOT REGULAR PEOPLE. NO. JUST THE ONES WHO HARM CHILDREN. BECAUSE THOSE ARE NOT REAL PEOPLE. THEY ARE MONSTERS AND THE WORLD WOULD BE BETTER IF THEY WERE NOT IN IT.
I'm serious. There was a guy in my county who was sentenced to life in prison a few months ago for raping children on video. The youngest one was less than a year old. My soul cannot contain the hate this incites and it just makes me want to kill people for even thinking of doing anything like that.
I'm really, truly curious what kind of neuroses lead someone to rape an INFANT. I know it's been explained that rape isn't necessarily sexual as much as violent, but there is an element of sex (duh) and it makes no sense to me that someone could use a baby for that.
Also, if I may ask how this bastard had access to these children? (Meaning, did he kidnap, or is it one of those things that reminds me never to trust anyone else with the care of my nieces/nephews/children/grandbabies/any-child-ever?)
@InCahoots: Unfortunately, most child "porn" IS rape or sodomy on video. It goes along with the internet mentality where people anonymously act out their sickest fantasies. Many of these abusers are networked in forums/groups and trade videos. They fuel each other to do crazier and crazier things. I think a lot of these guys who video this abuse get off more on the power aspect, rather than the infant him/herself.
@InCahoots: Unfortunately, it was the latter. He and a woman (who was also charged but to a slightly lesser extent) had a daycare at the womans' house. The man evidently lived there in the house. There were several children in their care, and I'm pretty sure all of them were abused at one point or another. And the woman involved would set up the video camera for him. There are so many unspeakable elements to the story, but one of the saddest things about it is that this happened in a low-income area in my county and these parents placed their little babies in the care of this man and woman because they couldn't afford anything else. So yeah. This sort of thing honestly makes me question my desire to be a mom someday.
@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: The thing that makes me really crazy about the rape of those really young children - beyond the obvious - is that sometimes the children DIE as a result of the trauma. I cannot even imagine. I am a peaceful, forgiving person but even I would have a hard time not murdering a baby rapist with my bare hands.
@Lou: I wasn't expressing shock that it was rape; rather that there is a fairly large difference between a child and an infant.
@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: That is beyond horrifying. Between this and all the other crazy daycare stories in the past few months, I think my best bet is to find a stay-at-home dude, or a job that allows me to have my kid strapped to my back at all times.
@ellaesther: Thanks, sis. My parents are both dead now, but I did manage to see the therapist before my mom died and it was the closest we came to resolving the issue. When I told mom what the lady had said, I burst out laughing and my mom begged me not to go back. To me, that was my mom looking out for me and that's all I needed. Case closed.
WHAT CAN ONE DO TO TRY TO HELP RID THE WORLD OF THIS HEINOUS SIN? I do not use the word "sin" lightly, or ever, but this is surely one of the few cases in which it applies.
My usual answer to everything is: Write to your elected officials! But I don't think that's enough here.
PLEASE SHARE IDEAS! Child porn is so evil, so far beyond the Pale, that I can't even find words.
In all seriousness, I am of the school of thought that enforcing chastity on a large group of people is unnatural. Sex is a human need, and artificially depriving people the ability to pursue healthy sex can cause the deprivation to manifest itself in unhealthy ways.
@morninggloria: I think you have a really good point there. Maybe one of the best ways to overcome this type of abuse is to change the way sex is viewed/talked about/handled in our society period. If everyone had the opportunity to lead a healthy sex life (healthy for them, and healthy for society), without guilt or fear, maybe a lot of the abuse that goes along with sex (of children, women, and others) would start to go away. I realize that's an ambitious agenda, but as someone said early, it seems like you have to get to the root of the problem to try and eliminate these things for good.
@rubym7: You know, I think for 99% of the population, it doesn't matter how much "guilt" or "fear" you instill in them, they're not going to find little kids sexually arousing. I don't think there's a cause/effect here.
@schweppes: Yeah, I mean, isn't it possible that those priests who are pedophiles entered the priesthood as a means of coping with their illness? I am more inclined to think that is what happened, rather than assuming the priesthood made them that way.
That said, I am all in favor of abolishing the chastity requirements for priests. As far as I know, those requirements are based in old-school misogynist ideas that looked at women as innately sinful and that having sex with them was the same as staining your eternal soul.
@morninggloria: I'm really struggling to remember where I got this statistic, but I remember reading from a reliable source that in the US, approximately HALF of those expected to maintain chastity (priests, nuns) do in fact go out and have sex, relationships, etc. In many parishes, it's not discussed but kind of accepted. Which can't be a bad thing, right? Hopefully?
@dingdang: Totally. My dad would drive us around his old hometown and point out one big mansion as "And that's where the priest's girlfriend lived." It's pretty accepted that most of the Popes until just recently had mistresses and children all around Italy.
Of course, this is what happens when you post a question and then walk away from your desk for an hour and a half! Thanks, people of Jezebel, for being so thoughtful.
@morninggloria: I think you're partially right about this, but as others have pointed out, the desire for sex is not the same as a pre-disposition to only being aroused by children. I've read that (as someone else also said) many people who go into celibate orders are often trying to control a sexual urge of one kind or another, and unsurprisingly, it doesn't work in a lot of cases.
@Improvident_Lackwit: This makes sense, on the level of protecting children. This is part of why I've told my kids, over and over, that if anyone they know ever needs a grown up, they can bring that kid to me. And I am actually involved at their school and with a couple of foster kids, so without really thinking about it, I guess I'm kind of doing this already. It could be done more, that's for sure. Though it really is important to remember that plenty of children are abused in homes and situations where you would think that they had all the resources in the world. If a kid is told to keep quite, he or she very frequently does, no matter how many potential allies there may be in the adult world.
But what I'm really looking for is something more direct -- something that will create a lesser need for protection in the first place, I suppose.
I wonder what percentage of visitors to child porn sites are watchdogs, cops, and those trying to shut it down who are actively increasing such sites traffic and therefore value by so doing. Ugh.
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And where else can I post this question?
Why isn't it cross-posted to Jezebel?
Why doesn't this bother you?
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Email hortense, email Anna, and/or mention it in the Readers Roundup at 3:30 EST -- if it's not actually being worked on right now, by one of the hard-working editors or contributors or interns.
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Or did I miss it between the boobs and the catalogs?
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Why are you trying to derail this anyway?
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I think if sexual offenders are deemed likely to reoffend, they need to continue to be held under supervision indefinitely. None of this "but he has a low IQ and he was abused" bullshit. That sucks, and there's another series of problems there, but I'm more interested in protecting kids and ending the abuse cycle than protecting the civil rights of someone with a dangerous sexual disorder.
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1) The child porn problem is so huge that is saps much of the resources from other areas of vice crime (ie smuggling women as sex slaves)
2) That the officers who have to view this stuff end up traumatised after a short time and have to be shipped out.
3) That porn addictions seem to escalate, which is why I'm not remotely surprised that the stuff that's out there is more hardcore. Some people don't even begin as paedophiles per se, they just get hooked on collecting, and when you collect you always want the new "best" thing, and in this case it's the more depraved the better. Another poster mentioned that the photos only appear for a short period of time, which would only spur on that urge to collect and make them seem like precious commodities.
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warning: not for the faint of heart
Also, there's no actual child pornography on that site, just a lot of discussion about it. It's pretty soul-killing to reason sometimes, but hey, it might give you some insight.
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I was an RCC counselor for 5 years, and I strongly encourage anyone who is either triggered by this story, or feels they need more support than they have gotten, or has a story they still haven't told anyone, to get in touch with an RCC in your area, or to call a hotline. TALKING ABOUT IT HELPS. It may hurt like hell at first, but then, it helps.
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They have an online helpline, which I didn't know was available, but is so insanely useful.
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[www.npr.org]
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[www.nytimes.com]
Island of Lost Girls
By DEA BIRKETT
London
"If there's a Paradise, it should be Pitcairn Island. The island, a mile-by-mile-and-a-half crag of dark volcanic rock marooned in the middle of the South Pacific, is home to just 47 people, mostly descendants of the famed mutineers from the British ship Bounty. The islanders pass their days hoeing peppers and sweet potatoes, fishing for shark from flat-bottomed canoes, and shooting down breadfruit from the trees with their muskets.
There are no roads, no cars, no airstrip, no banks, no currency and no office hours. And, until recently, Pitcairn, a British overseas territory, boasted of having no crime. In 1991, when I stayed there for four months, no prosecutions had been brought in the island's two-century history, and none were foretold. The nearest sizable landmass - where you'll also find the closest lawyer, hospital, supermarket, high school and public phone booth - is 3,000 miles across the ocean in New Zealand.
When the mail arrived, lowered over the side of passing ships into the island's longboat, the Pitcairners opened the sacks of letters as they sat on the long bench in the square of the only settlement, Adamstown, and chuckled over their contents. The letters were from people pleading for permission to visit this perfect place.
The islanders had reason to laugh. They knew, even though the wider world learned only recently, that Pitcairn is far from paradise. While distant dreamers imagined the island as an embodiment of perfection, child molesting was endemic. Girls were taken into the banana groves, pinned down and raped, sometimes by more than one man. This week, after a four-week trial, five Pitcairn men - half the men on the island - were found guilty of a horrific string of sexual offenses against minors stretching back more than 40 years (a sixth man pleaded guilty earlier). The island's mayor, Steve Christian, was convicted on five counts of rape against children as young as 12; he was sentenced yesterday to three years. Another man, Terry Young, was convicted of indecent assault on a 7-year-old, and more prosecutions are planned.
Such disturbing crimes are often attributed to the influences of modern society, from pornography on the Internet to the dissolution of the nuclear family. But on the remote island of Pitcairn, you can't tune in to a single TV channel, while Internet access is only a recent innovation. And the ties of community are very strong; there are only nine families, sharing four surnames. Everything commonly denounced as corrupting is absent. So why is such a pocket-sized island not Paradise, but an outcrop of Hell?
Throughout the trial, victims testified to simply putting up with abuse because there was nowhere to go and no one they could tell (in the last decade or so, for instance, only a handful of outsiders have been allowed to stay any length of time on Pitcairn). Both perpetrators and victims described this sexual "breaking in'' as normal. Men could molest without fear of censure. The risks of falling out with your neighbor/close relative/daughter's rapist were far too great; the Pitcairners rely on each other for absolutely everything, from sharing the fish and the food they grow to manning the longboats, the only way of reaching the passing ships that are the sole source of supplies.
In such an atmosphere, petty tyrants flourish. Steve Christian, who led many of the attacks, is not only mayor, but also skipper of the island's longboat and its mechanic. When the nearest mechanic's shop is 3,000 miles away, the ability to fix the island's only tractor or restart the generator is too valuable to be threatened. The community needed Steve Christian.
At a distance, a small community like Pitcairn seems an Eden compared to the dangers of urban life. We feel such a self-reliant place will provide a blueprint for a rosier future. But as this week's verdicts reveal, isolated communities are neither happier nor healthier places to raise our children. Free from the moderating gaze of outsiders and the rule of impartial law, abuse can continue unchecked. There are no police officers or lawyers to turn to, no place to escape. Big amorphous cities, not small homogenous communities, are where we have the opportunity to flourish.
If anything, the lesson from Pitcairn Island is, for your children's sake, live in New York."
Like a horror movie.
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It just seemed like rape was so intertwined in the culture that it was literally impossible for both men and women to see that raping girls at 7 and 8 is a BAD THING to do.
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This post is so short and provides no analysis; it just seems like an invitation for people to vent.
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The federal government and local law enforcement spend lots of time and money investigating and arresting people for child porn. Internet service providers make every effort to assist the police. There are many volunteers working to locate child pornographers. People go to prison for a long long time in the US for these offenses. These cases are very difficult to defend because of the strong public sentiment about people accused of these crimes.
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Then push them over backwards...
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I'm lenient?!
You're the one that wants to put them out of their misery... I think they should live the rest of their miserable lives in agonizing pain!
:-p
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Will this item be getting decent play on non-women-oriented blogs? Will it cross-post, say, to Gawker? Or will decidedly male-oriented blogs approach the issue?
Because while I do think that child porn is a result of something being literally WRONG with the adults involved, those adults are usually men. And if men were to have the problem on their radar, it would be helpful.
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(Yes, this was 25 years ago and I still have the most insanely vivid memories of it. I still know what I was wearing.)
But even still, I don't understand. Was I really dehumanized that much in his eyes that he saw me as nothing more than a vagina? It is so odd to me.
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Anyway in the book he describes studies and surveys regarding what men would doo if they could get away with it...and the number of men who would have sex with minors, coercively rape adults, and rape children under the age of 12 if they knew they'd get away with it. If you Google that I don't think you'd have trouble finding it at all.
Fantasy (however disturbing) is one thing, so long as it's never acted on...hell, even "sex with teens" has some gray areas, depending on the circumstances/age of the partners....
It IS depressing, though, to consider that many "normal" people--when being 100% for a survey--can admit that they would rape a child or an adult and are simply held back due to (tenuous, arguably) barriers. I hope like hell that there's additional sense of inhibition (moral...not just practical) that the surveys weren't thorough enough to pick up.
It's frightening.
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I hope you don't mind me asking this and please don't feel compelled to reply if you don't want, but what was his reaction afterward? I'm assuming something bad must have happened to him because some adult noticed your bleeding?
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Of course, I told my parents, who called the police. My details on what happened next are really sketchy, as my dad refuses to talk about it and my mom can't talk about it without losing her shit, but as far as I know, he was put in jail for a day or two and then let out. I don't think there was ever a trial or that he was ever sent to juvenile detention or anything. It was the first time he had ever gotten in trouble and he was an Eagle Scout and all that crap, and I guess they figured it would all just go away. So yeah, within a week he was living across the street from us again.
I really wish I could talk to my parents about this without them losing their shit. *sigh*
Of course, my suspicion is that he and his family were Mormon, and we were not, and this was in Utah in the early 80s. I'll leave it up to you to draw your own conclusions.
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I am glad to hear that you've managed to deal with it. I lived across the street from my abuser and it totally fucks with your sense of security. I hope that one day you'll be able to talk about with your parents.
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Mom just starts ranting and crying and talking about how she wants to kill him and saying she's so sorry for failing to protect me. I've tried but she is so clearly upset by what happened that I'd almost rather not.
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The therapy situation was kind of messed up. My parents kept putting me in and taking me out of it. The last time I tried, my dad insisted on sitting in on the sessions, and then my stepmom decided I was lying to the therapist and they cancelled my appointments with her. So any therapizing (is that a word?) I've kind of done on my own by reading a lot of books, talking with close, understanding friends and letting myself grieve over what happened. But really, actual therapy might have sped up the process a bit. as it was, it took like two decades for me to come to grips with it!
(I hope you are doing okay as well. I understand not wanting to get therapy, and I just hope you are doing okay.)
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And yeah, I figured that there were several layers of repression at play, not the least of which was that there was this good Mormon kid from this good Mormon family, and here he was, accused of doing this totally heinous thing. What was really sad was later, when I was about 18 or so, I went online and found several other stories from people who had gone through similar things, not only being sexually abused, but also at the hands of church members, and then seeing it all swept under the rug as if it never happened.
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My parents were very supportive but chose not to contact the police because there was no physical evidence and they believed it would have been more traumatic for me to have endured questioning and possibly not being believed than to inform the family what happened and to never let me go over there again. I understand why my parents made that choice, especially in light of the difficulty of mounting a child sex prosecution, even when there is evidence, but it took me a long time to let go of not feeling responsible for not doing more (which is ridiculous because I was 4), especially as I know he abused his granddaughter and most likely other girls.
It no longer surprises me how much gets swept under the rug, just makes me sad and angry.
Thanks for asking and I'm much better now.
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I am so happy to hear that you've managed to make your peace. Sometimes I think I may have been luckier to be so young when it happened, because at least it was just kind of obvious to everyone that what happened to me was fucked up and I was not to blame. I mean, I certainly didn't have any therapists saying shit like that to me, nor did anyone try to pass it off as "regrettable sex." (WTF?) I imagine that would have made it harder to deal with what happened.
As far as emotional freedom, I actually feel okay about everything that happened. Really, the reason why I'd like to know is because I'm writing a book about a portion of my life, and I just realized that I have all these big blank spots in my recollection, so at this point it would be more to satisfy my curiosity than anything. These days, I more feel sorry for everyone else, including my rapist, because I can't imagine what a fucked-up person he must be to have thought what he did was permissable. I mean, really. A four year old? It's just gross.
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You were a little, little girl, and you had no autonomy or tools. The world of adults should have protected you -- that's their job. Would you put any blame on your niece/daughter/next door neighbor if it happened to her?
I'm so sorry this happened, honey, and so glad you feel so much better now.
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I think I understand that, though, because it let you feel like you had a bit of control in what happened. I know that, for me, I had a couple of years when I was 7 or 8, where I told other kids I had had sex, because it was easier for me to think of it as me having had sex than being raped.
And the being terrified of being alone with older men...that was something I didn't shake until I was well into my 20s. I used to be afraid of penises, too. Kept me from having sex again until I was 17. You are right, it leaves such an imprint all over your mind that it takes a while to understand the full extent of the damage left behind.
I am happy you had supportive parents who believed you. I am also happy that you've found a way to deal without hurting yourself. I am just really sorry that you ever had to go through that.
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That wasn't ok that that happened. People in support positions need to be able to put their own needs aside, because the needs of the survivor -- your needs -- are paramount. They need to get whatever help they need from someone other than you, and allow you to need them in whatever way you need them.
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@whynotshesaid: because it let you feel like you had a bit of control in what happened -- I think that's a big piece of it for a lot of survivors. In taking it away, saying "no, really, you did not cause this," some women I worked really felt shamed, at first, I think -- it took awhile to forgive themselves for having been children.
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@Mama Penguino,@ellaesther, @Ms. Crankypants is done Law School: I have to go run some errands but I wanted to give huge Jezehugs to all of you before I did so. I appreciate having the chance to talk to other women who understand and are supportive. So often it seems like people just have such a visceral emotional reaction to stories like ours (understandably) that it's hard to have a reasonable talk about it, so I am very grateful that we were able to share our stories like this. *BIG HUGS*
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I'm serious. There was a guy in my county who was sentenced to life in prison a few months ago for raping children on video. The youngest one was less than a year old. My soul cannot contain the hate this incites and it just makes me want to kill people for even thinking of doing anything like that.
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I'm really, truly curious what kind of neuroses lead someone to rape an INFANT. I know it's been explained that rape isn't necessarily sexual as much as violent, but there is an element of sex (duh) and it makes no sense to me that someone could use a baby for that.
Also, if I may ask how this bastard had access to these children? (Meaning, did he kidnap, or is it one of those things that reminds me never to trust anyone else with the care of my nieces/nephews/children/grandbabies/any-child-ever?)
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@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: That is beyond horrifying. Between this and all the other crazy daycare stories in the past few months, I think my best bet is to find a stay-at-home dude, or a job that allows me to have my kid strapped to my back at all times.
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WHAT CAN ONE DO TO TRY TO HELP RID THE WORLD OF THIS HEINOUS SIN? I do not use the word "sin" lightly, or ever, but this is surely one of the few cases in which it applies.
My usual answer to everything is: Write to your elected officials! But I don't think that's enough here.
PLEASE SHARE IDEAS! Child porn is so evil, so far beyond the Pale, that I can't even find words.
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In all seriousness, I am of the school of thought that enforcing chastity on a large group of people is unnatural. Sex is a human need, and artificially depriving people the ability to pursue healthy sex can cause the deprivation to manifest itself in unhealthy ways.
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That said, I am all in favor of abolishing the chastity requirements for priests. As far as I know, those requirements are based in old-school misogynist ideas that looked at women as innately sinful and that having sex with them was the same as staining your eternal soul.
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@morninggloria: I think you're partially right about this, but as others have pointed out, the desire for sex is not the same as a pre-disposition to only being aroused by children. I've read that (as someone else also said) many people who go into celibate orders are often trying to control a sexual urge of one kind or another, and unsurprisingly, it doesn't work in a lot of cases.
@Improvident_Lackwit: This makes sense, on the level of protecting children. This is part of why I've told my kids, over and over, that if anyone they know ever needs a grown up, they can bring that kid to me. And I am actually involved at their school and with a couple of foster kids, so without really thinking about it, I guess I'm kind of doing this already. It could be done more, that's for sure. Though it really is important to remember that plenty of children are abused in homes and situations where you would think that they had all the resources in the world. If a kid is told to keep quite, he or she very frequently does, no matter how many potential allies there may be in the adult world.
But what I'm really looking for is something more direct -- something that will create a lesser need for protection in the first place, I suppose.
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