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The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
Obama And McCain Meet Rick Warren For The Betterment Of Rick Warren
Not All Evangelicals Are Anti-Choice Or Anti-Dildo

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theysaidwhat
01/30/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
Andrew Sullivan has completely lost his damned mind.

[andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com]

In this article, he equates pedophilic abuse by Catholic priests with homosexuality. How an openly gay man can confuse homosexuality with pedophilia boggles the mind. I am speechless!

Maybe someone needs to film a documentary on Sullivan and his conflicted feelings about his own sexuality if he can mistake pedophilia for homosexuality.

Advocacy-ur doin it wrong!
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theysaidwhat
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
Having just watched the documentary, I don't think it was overly sympathetic. Haggard is still Haggard; he unwittingly betrays his pride, confusion and incomplete understanding of how he found himself in the position he's in today.

It's a great portrait of how mightily we struggle with denial. Perhaps someday he'll understand what he did and how he wronged people, but he sure didn't understand it when this documentary footage was filmed.
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FourInchHeels
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
I've never had so many religion conversations in one week!

Another fun fact: Using history and what we now know about the culture and time, it is much more likely that the meaning of 'turn the other cheek' does not mean to let people walk all over you again ... it is much more probable that its original meaning was:

If you hit someone with disrespect (slave, someone you look down upon etc) you hit them with the back of your hand*. It's a condescending way to do it, even today. Think about hitting someone that way. If they were to turn the other cheek, in order for you to strike them again, you must now hit them with the open palm of your hand. And that is a sign of equality. I find it much more believable and awesome (and less shitty, as someone who chooses to follow the teachings in the Bible) that this guidance was not telling you to let people beat on you. It was telling you to turn the other cheek, and force them to treat you with respect and as an equal. If they will hit you, they will do so as your peer.

*This is also where we get the phrase back-handed compliment!
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lastbroadcast
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
Ok maybe I'm generalizing, but is every leader/important figure in Evangelicalism gay?!?!?! It seems like every five seconds I hear about some sort of gay sex scandal with a preacher from Utah or Colorado or wherever. Is that extreme homophobia they're taught at such an early age, cause them to hate themselves so much they perpertuate these ridiculous ideas, even when they're caught engaging in homosexual acts? I'm just trying to figure out the psychology of all of this.

Reason number 34757856743 I am agnostic.
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FourInchHeels
01/29/09

@lastbroadcast: Think of how many churches there are in this country. Each one has at least one, and lots have multiple, pastors. How many scandals have you heard of? Maybe a dozen? Probably double it since the whole Catholic priest thing blurred together for a while. We'll triple the number, assuming that lots of people haven't come forward about their abuse. That gives me an absolutely unscientific count of 72. Let's say there are 72 people in positions of religious power who have sexually abused others. That is a very very small fraction of all those people doing honest and honorable - and abuse-free - work.

I totally understand what you're saying, and don't think you were 100% serious, but it's not unlike claiming in exasperation that ALL lawyers are crooked. Sure, there are lots of crooked ones. But there are many, many more who are perfectly respectable people who do not chase ambulances and screw people out of every possible dime.
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lastbroadcast
01/29/09

@FourInchHeels: Yeah I wasn't being completely serious haha. I am aware not every religious leader is a secret homosexual and the media often choosesto publicize these cases because the public loves seeing hypocrites go down. It honestly is a shame that people who from come from religious backgrounds and happen to be homosexual have to live their lives in shame and denial. I'm really just pissed at the whole establishment that is the Evangelical Church for pertuating such hateful and unrealistic beliefs (the kind that it's leaders cannot even follow).
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FourInchHeels
01/29/09

@lastbroadcast: Me too :( I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with liking to make the sex with whatever gender you choose, and it makes me sad that people have twisted the Bible so hard that it becomes an impossible and unrealistic standard. It's like setting themselves up for failure, of epic and catastrophic proportions. Often, at the expense (figuratively and literally) of others. Le sigh.
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♥ dosido☮
01/30/09

@FourInchHeels: !!!! OMG

So good to see you back, 4inch :D
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PhillyLass
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
I watched his appearance on Oprah. His wife and two of his children were there as well. And I could not get over the level of self-delusion and the self-hate that must underlie it. He freely admitted that he has homosexual urges. But he doesn't believe that makes him a homosexual. He's staying with his wife. And she claims she never considered divorcing him. She basically says that his (gay) feelings do not constitute his identity. So, as long as he doesn't act on those urges any longer, it's all good. It was stunning to watch them go through intellectual contortions to justify a sham marriage and for him to defend his resolution to fight against himself.
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Hamsterpants
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
My major problem with him has nothing to do with doing meth or having gay sex or cheating on his wife - my main problem is he is a hypocrite, condemning people from the pulpit for THE EXACT SAME THINGS he was trying to hide.
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Cerridwen
01/29/09

@Hamsterpants: But given the fact that he was sexually abused and likely ended up with some seriously damaged feelings towards his sexuality as a result, I'm less likely to condemn the man, even though the things he said were reprehensible.
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Hamsterpants
01/29/09

@Cerridwen: I agree with you about the molestation part - but I'm sticking to my guns about the hypocrisy.
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ArmansCopyOfSwank
01/29/09

@Cerridwen: Was this abuse ever proven or corroborated by anyone? I haven't heard that it was and as such I've always believed his molestation story to be the standard evangelical response to homosexuality, that it's not "natural" and is brought about either by a conscious decision to be gay or by sexual abuse. So as long as Ted's the only one who's saying that he's abused (i.e. if he's not backed up by family), then I'm calling bullshit. He's gay, he's a hypocrite, and this is his way of trying to get away with it all.
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arodriguez.romero
01/29/09

@ArmansCopyOfSwank: huh. That's a really good point.
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RainbowBrite
01/29/09

@ArmansCopyOfSwank: Yikes, I wouldn't doubt that he'd been molested, corroborated or not. However, being molested does not make one gay, so it's really irrelevant to his adult sexual orientation.
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whynotshesaid
01/30/09

@ArmansCopyOfSwank: I don't think that's fair. There are a lot of instances in which abuse happens without anyone else knowing about it.
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HeinzDoofenshmirtz
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
I remember watching the Law & Order episode very similar to his story, I just figured out this was the guy they were talking about.
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MizJenkins
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
"Turn the Other Cheek"...you meant the pun right? Tell me you did.
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Raspberry Swirly
01/29/09

@MizJenkins: I hope not. Unintentional puns are the best.
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AndYourLittleDogToo
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
"She doesn't probe what happened between the experimentation of a 7-year-old and the blow-up of a 50-year-old's life."

Is this review referring to his abuse as "experimenting?" If so, that's awful.
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Mmmmkay (gellin' and Jezebelin)
01/29/09

@AndYourLittleDogToo: No, I believe he admitted to experimenting with another boy when he was 7. Voluntarily, not a case of abuse.
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sportz.star
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
This guy must be able to sell iPods to the deaf. I live in Colorado Springs now and the outpouring of support (i.e. money) from New Life to Haggard is unreal. It's constantly talked about in the local paper.
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PilgrimSoul
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
OMG I WILL SO WATCH THIS AND MAKE SWEET, SWEET FUN OF IT.

I gotta invite PhDork over.
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Raspberry Swirly
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
...Where have I been that I had not heard any of this Ted Haggard scandal?
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sassyredhead
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
I am a total documentary ho...I cannot wait to view this.
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katie.scarlett.o'hara
01/29/09

In reply to The Trials of Ted Haggard Urges Viewers To Turn The Other Cheek
Even if I had HBO, I would not be watching this. I have absolutely no sympathy for this guy.
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labeled
11/26/08

In reply to Tucker Carlson's Guide To Not Getting Divorced
This has amused me to no end, mostly because for once I'm completely DOWN a Christian pastor. So, he isn't afraid to bring it up, and isn't afraid to remind people that sex is GOOD for you... hard for me to argue with. And, I'm a goddess-worshipping neo-Pagan.

And I kind of agree with Tucker - the bias is just too tempting for some to pass up. I mean, didn't we see a thread full of people feeling sorry for the "Mommies" who were nearly sexless just yesterday?

My take on his "challenge" is that sometimes you really need to have sex to want sex, and sex is usually a pretty important touchstone within a partnership. Not creepy, not invasive, just a good reminder that part of being a couple usually involves letting someone else in your space (er, ha).
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labeled
11/26/08

@labeled: Down with, that is. Just to avoid any confusion, given the subject.
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funnyface
11/26/08

@labeled: Yeah, I just wish he had discussed it in a more nuanced way (and maybe he did, I haven't seen the sermon). It's certainly true for me (especially in my BC-dampened-libido state) that the more sex I have, the more my sex drive improves. Thus, if I have sex even when I don't exactly feel rarin' to go, pretty soon I DO feel rarin' to go. But doing it because I understand that it's good for me, my sex drive, and my relationship is a whole different shebang than doing it because my pastor said so, or because Jesus wants me to or something.
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