As a straight ally, I don't want to co-opt any LGBT person's legitimate frustration today, which like election day when the news about Prop 8 hit here in CA, was devastating for anyone with any sense of justice...but I firmly believe we'll get there.
It should be now, of course. No one should have to wait for equality. It's disgusting and unfair that civil rights issues like this take as long as they do, have as many setbacks as they do, and require so much work and frustration and disillusion.
There's no way to change every mind, but it's heartbreaking to see something that should never, ever, be up to popular vote...be legitimized in some way and go counter to the basic tenants of our system. Which is that the rights of the minority should NEVER be subject to the whims of the majority. That is a fundamental issue in our system. The fact that many people seem to believe they have the right to decide what version of equality other people get to have saddens me. Something is broken in anyone who believes that.
I wish I could tell my LGBT friends that this will change soon. That this fight will not have to go on for years, or decades, and we'll see this in our lifetimes. I hope that we will. I think we move for change in the world faster than we used to. I can only hope we do. And continue to fight for it.
Bigotry will, I think, always exist. But we can't ever let it dictate our lives and access to equality. So we'll always have to fight. And though it's frustrating and discouraging...it's worth it.
@tiredfairy: Well at least it was only 53% not ... 83%, you know? 20 years from now people are going to look at events like this and say, "Grandma & Grandpa, WHAT THE FUCK were you thinking??" #gaymarriagemaine
It's sad, I really wasn't expecting this to happen at all.
Regarding the whole Catholic situation, I think it's possible to overcome that. Look at Spain, one of the first countries to approve gay marriage. You have many religious people there, many non-religious too, and they seem to respect each other.
Also many young people there who identify themsleves as Catholics but who don't agree with many conservative issues. A few call them hypocrites, I call them just people who move with the times and who have decided to be dissidents from within.
I still feel sad though, but I have a bit of hope.
@MerryLilly: American Catholicism is one of the strictest Catholic cultures in the world, and in many ways it's a totally different beast from the Churches in Spain, France, or even Italy. Catholic Spain may have found a way to make it work, but the American Church is unlikely to let it pass. #gaymarriagemaine
@rodmanstreet: That's a good point. However, I believe it will change in America too. Just look at Spain during Franco's era (extreme restrictions) and look at it now. #gaymarriagemaine
@MerryLilly: I wouldn't really place a lot of the anti-equality sentiment on the American Catholic church. A lot of it is built up in the Southern Bible Belt, an area that is overwhelmingly Evangelical and very outspoken against gay marriage. While the Catholic church is also against gay marriage, I wouldn't say that it's the main religious stronghold against marriage equality in the US. #gaymarriagemaine
@GF_AdventureGrl: Agreed! However, some people just seem to throw the word "catholic" at everything. While the Vatican itself has very strict norms, I believe many Catholics are way more progressive when it comes to these issues. #gaymarriagemaine
@MerryLilly: Franco was a tyrant who imposed his way of thinking to Spain, here there is no autocrat in close history who imposed his beliefs to the country, wich means that they believe it by self-conviction and that's harder to erase than drop impositions someone had on you #gaymarriagemaine
@not_kinky: Well, I admit that's a very valid point.
I guess I was trying to find a silver lining somewhere. It's a long battle anyway, similar to women's rights. We've come a long way, but there are still many things that need to change. #gaymarriagemaine
I'm afraid that if I comment on this issue too much today, or even discuss it too much with friends, something horribly offensive to the Christian right will slip out of my mouth. So I'll post this instead:
Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent. - Martin Luther King, Jr.#gaymarriagemaine
"There’s good news and bad news here. The good news is that even in one of the most liberal States in the Union, Maine, the people have once again rejected the ridiculous and oxymoronic notion of ‘same sex marriage.’ The momentum has again shifted – hopefully for good this time – in favor of protecting legitimate marriage. A counterfeit is a counterfeit. An orange is an orange no matter how much you want it to be a turnip. This isn’t about ‘marriage.’ It’s about hurting and broken people desperately seeking affirmation of an objectively deviant lifestyle. One that, even in their heart of hearts, they know to be a dead end. As for the militant ‘No on 1’ homosexual activists? I’m reminded of spoiled children dressing up and playing house, refusing to come in when mom calls for dinner. Here’s the bad news. The margin of victory could have been greater. Many behind the ‘Yes on 1’ campaign, rather than simply telling the truth, chose the Neville Chamberlain approach. They merely circled the wagons around the word ‘marriage,’ even suggesting that ‘domestic partnerships’ (‘gay marriages’ by another name) are acceptable. This makes no sense. If that’s a viable compromise, then why not simply allow 'gay' duos the word ‘marriage’? It’s an incongruity that demands an explanation. This is an historic battle for the minds and souls of our children – for our very culture. The mealy-mouthed approach must end. This is not just about ‘marriage.’ It has everything to do with forced affirmation of homosexuality – under penalty of law." —Liberty Counsel and Liberty Alliance Action director Matt Barber, on Maine's outcome
@gracie1117: Seriously, how do you even start to analyze this? How many synaptic misfires were necessary for this statement to be made? #gaymarriagemaine
@JessickerFletcher: Talk about acting like children. This guy is essentially closing his eyes and covering his ears saying "LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" thinking that they are just going to go away. That, magically, homosexuality is going to one day cease to exist. Someone needs to grow up and open their eyes. This isn't over. #gaymarriagemaine
@JessickerFletcher: This whole thing makes me want to puke. Forced affirmation of homosexuality, under penalty of law? Mr. Barber, I'd like to vote against being forced to support your very existence. #gaymarriagemaine
@gracie1117: Actually, I think it's worth pointing out that even this bigoted asshole gets the arbitrariness of people feeling that civil unions are ok but marriage is not. #gaymarriagemaine
@JessickerFletcher: I love that he is part of an organization with not one, but two liberties in the name, but the organization is actively seeking to repress people. #gaymarriagemaine
@lilyHaze: I know! That name is hilarious. They should've just named it the "US American Freedom Liberty Patriotic Freedom Eagle Red, White, and Blue Coalition for the Judeo-Christian Roots of Our Country God Bless Us with God Given Liberty Organization." Sigh#gaymarriagemaine
I am reminded of the comedian Doug Stanhope's line about marriage: "No one has ever said 'Honey, my love for you is so strong, let's get The Government involved!'" This is something I wish more places would grasp: what are some of the most gay-friendly cities in the country? San Francisco, D.C., New York City, L.A., Boston, Chicago, Austin, Madison, etc..., right? I'm sure I'm missing a few others, but this is just a quick, off-my-head list. Now, which cities have some of the best arts and entertainment scenes in the U.S.? Pretty much the same list as above. Which cities generally have the best employment numbers? Again...see above.Now, which state - granted, the scenery is absolutely lovely - is pretty much one of the poorest in the country, and just passed legislation that is essentially anti-gay? Maine. Lots of social economists will point out that the homosexual community is actually a tax benefit for most cities, as they put a lot more into the coffers than they draw out in services. They also tend to spend more money locally and support local small businesses. They contribute to the arts, theaters, urban renewal, environmental and historical renovation projects at percentages higher than straight folks.So, um, Maine...if you guys want to have an even worse economy, um...go ahead, keep it up. #gaymarriagemaine
bookling promoted this comment
Edited by telecomic the thoughtful red panda at 11/04/09 11:11 AM
telecomic the thoughtful red panda was starred
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This is Maggie Gallagher, the President of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), the group that actively campaigns against gay marriage and the LGBT community in general. She is a hateful, hateful woman.
There's a four-letter word she deserves to be called. I'll leave it all to you to decide what that word is.
Going into the election, I think most of us in the LGBT community knew Maine was going to be a difficult, and close, battle. And while the results here in Washington State are looking favorable for our "everything but marriage" law, it's still heartbreaking. And frustrating that out-of-state groups and donors are effectively dictating state laws and policy, intentionally misleading voters. And for what? To preserve their already admittedly broken and ruined marriages? Their infidelities and lies?
Fuck that.
I'm tired of these groups running behind the pearly white robes of Jesus to justify their hatred. Tired of the lies, and the claims that they're doing this because they care about children and families and preserving the 'natural order.' If you cared so much, then the tens-of-thousands of dollars spent on hateful advertising to stop gay marriage could be better used to helping family and children that are homeless, or starving, or in need of medical care. Not fattening their own wallets so they can afford expensive cars and homes and clothing for their non-stop media appearances.
So tired of this shit, and tired of having to fight for what should just be. I don't blame the citizens of Maine, there was always going to be those who voted in favor of Question 1, but those behind the campaigns? The NOMs and religious organizations? You. You I blame. And you will go down. Because you're a dying breed.
@hovy: I was speechless with rage when I heard that Larry Stickney (the guy running the R-71 thing in Washington) was from Oregon and had a history involving one domestic violence charge, two divorces, and three marriages. STFU, Stickney.
But after about three seconds, I started talking to everyone I knew about the importance of approving R-71. Unfortunately, I can't talk to all of eastern Washington, but it's nice to see that (hopefully) the western half will carry the vote through to keep the domestic partnership law on the books.
I want to know how my dentist and his husband or my aunt and her partner are personally affecting Stickney, Gallagher, and every person in Maine and Washington who voted against him. Nobody's willing to answer that one (you cowardly, close-minded, hateful fucks). #gaymarriagemaine
The general public should not be voting on legislation. Direct democracy is a waste of time and taxpayer resources. There is a reason we pay LEGISLATORS to make LEGISLATIVE decisions. The Maine legislature made the right decision here, and this should have never been put to the public for a vote. #gaymarriagemaine
@SarsDoesntSave: I totally agree. Our founding fathers designed our country to be a Republic and not a direct democracy for a reason, and this is the reason. You know, so the minority doesn't get trampled by the majority (and because some of those men didn't trust the intelligence of the common man, but I'm trying to be nice and not call these people complete idiots, just self-centered idiots). #gaymarriagemaine
@soykatrina: Yes, I was tempted to make a snide remark about the intelligence of the common man as well, but I thought better of it.
The truth is that, in most states, being a legislator is a full time job that includes a budget for staff to brief you on issues. The average person just does not have the time or the inclination to make an informed decision about all of the many issues that legislators decide.
This is not to say that citizens should not contact their representatives about issues that matter to them, but they should certainly not be voting on anything an interest group manages to get on the ballot. #gaymarriagemaine
Please, I beg, can a Mainer whose personal interests were damaged by the outcome of this election make good use of this occasion to challenge the 501(c)3 status of Focus on the Family? Pretty please? #gaymarriagemaine
These boutique X-tians spend millions of dollars on fancy new churches on opressing people they've deemed unworthy.... With their spending power, why the fuck are there American schools that are falling apart, hungry and homeless children, and disabled people with no where to go?
When I was born again for 5 hot seconds in high school, I saw that church raise money for ski trips and the occasional mission trip (a vacation with a touch of self satisfaction)... but not once did I see that church, full of rich, well dressed white people, raise money for the poor, the needy, the hurting.
But they have time and money for this. Fuck the lot of them.
Sometimes I hope that God is real and that It tells these fuckers to stop speaking for It. #gaymarriagemaine
@thoughtthinker: I remember being in youth group and we were always raising money. For ourselves. It never occurred to the group that maybe we should be raising the money for someone else. I never went on any of the trips, because I never did any door-to-door stuff. I was not strongly religious even then.
I wish that someone had set us straight, and told us that maybe next time, we should spend some time raising money to buy books for disadvantaged schools, or run a Toys for Tots donation drive or something. But instead, I'm pretty sure they went on a trip to a camp every year. I can't remember. #gaymarriagemaine
@boxspelunker: These people are so self-congratulatory. I don't think they honestly care about fetal humans, that sanctity of marriage, or Honduras... I think they get off on outrage and moral superiority. #gaymarriagemaine
@boxspelunker: I hate that they actually claim to speak for 'all Christians' ...
There are religious organizations out there who do do good work in their communities, and in the world at large (just to name a few from the churches I've attended: food banks, homeless outreach programs, woman's shelters, subsidized housing for seniors, and more, funding summer camp for underprivileged kids).
Unfortunately, these are the organizations that are losing people, perhaps because they don't have the funds to send the youth groups off to fancy camps and trips ... or they don't spend all their money inciting hatred of others... #gaymarriagemaine
@Melpomene: Oh, I know! There are many kind-hearted, good Christians that do genuinely care about others and do good work, but for some reason, these hateful, angry people hijack the name and are all like WE ARE THE REAL ONES, YOU GUYS, EFF THAT LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR STUFF. :/
@boxspelunker: It's like the stinking Pope cracking down on all the nuns who are "too involved" in community charity and thus, not "Christian" enough. Stinking Pope and his fancy shoes. #gaymarriagemaine
@Melpomene: Whhaaaat? I didn't hear about that! How awful! So much for being Christ-like, who showed compassion and love to outcasts as well as devout believers. #gaymarriagemaine
I exaggerated slightly--- it's an investigation into nuns who are 'too independent' (ie, living outside a convent), or agitating for change in the church's institutions, or are involved in community programs the Vatican deems 'unsuitable'.
I'm just really disgruntled with the current Vatican.. #gaymarriagemaine
@Melpomene: That is still really frustrating. Everyone needs some time where they're directing their own activities, and to help in a way that they see fit. From what I see, if nuns are not living in a convent or are helping GLBT youth, that is outreach that really, really matters. These women are dedicated to helping those in their communities that need it, and I think it's so discouraging for the Vatican to frown on that. I mean, really!
I am often disgruntled with the current Vatican. I wish there was more of a push for people to become involved in communities and be less concerned with the appearance of it all. I feel like the current pope is trying to distinguish himself from John Paul II, who seemed to be beloved by practically everyone. And by doing what he is, he's certainly changed the view of the Pope, but... I don't think it's in a good way. #gaymarriagemaine
In the rush of Maine hating lets not forget that thousands of Mainers volunteered, donated, and rallied for No on 1. And that we did so with minmal support from the big national LGBT orgs, and no support whatsoever from the DNC/White House. #gaymarriagemaine
@BlueMorpho: Thank you for saying this. I am very angry/hurt/disappointed but you can't judge the whole state on what happened yesterday. 99% of the people I know voted No on 1 and are crushed this happened.
Edited by Miss Scarlett is sad at humanity lately at 11/04/09 10:58 AM
Miss Scarlett is sad at humanity lately was starred
Miss Scarlett is sad at humanity lately was unstarred
The opponents' argument reminds me of Betty Draper's comment to Carla when JFK is shot. The white person telling the black person that perhaps the country is not ready for civil rights. If the majority was willing to hand over civil rights to a minority, then there would be no need for a civil rights movement. We need the movement because there is oppression.
Yesterday's vote is sad. But I remember sitting in the women's center at my college in Vermont 13 years ago listening to somebody talk about the campaign for gay marriage and compare where we were then to where we are now. While we have lost many battles, we are slowly winning the fight. #gaymarriagemaine
@Lymed: It makes me so sad that you have to fight. Here in the UK there was, undoubtedly, some opposition to gay marriage, but nothing particularly 'mainstream'. It was passed into law with very little fuss in the end. Amazingly, British society has not collapsed. It is really hard for me to understand what the big deal is for so many Americans. It's a bit like the Janet Jackson 'wardrobe malfunction' breast-flash. Watching the outcry, the reaction of most Europeans was "WTF?" #gaymarriagemaine
@Lymed: Possibly because a lot of the people who felt oppressed just turned around and oppressed anyone who wasn't like them as soon as they hit the shore. Unfortunately. #gaymarriagemaine
"The democratic franchise turns from one of humanity's most noble inventions to one of its most odious when the rights of a minority are submitted to the brute electoral power of the majority. It is democratic vigilantism, an electoral lynching mob, a psychological pogrom that replaces the torch and the noose with the wounding and terrifying language of hate, prejudice and bigotry."
11/04/09
It should be now, of course. No one should have to wait for equality. It's disgusting and unfair that civil rights issues like this take as long as they do, have as many setbacks as they do, and require so much work and frustration and disillusion.
There's no way to change every mind, but it's heartbreaking to see something that should never, ever, be up to popular vote...be legitimized in some way and go counter to the basic tenants of our system. Which is that the rights of the minority should NEVER be subject to the whims of the majority. That is a fundamental issue in our system. The fact that many people seem to believe they have the right to decide what version of equality other people get to have saddens me. Something is broken in anyone who believes that.
I wish I could tell my LGBT friends that this will change soon. That this fight will not have to go on for years, or decades, and we'll see this in our lifetimes. I hope that we will. I think we move for change in the world faster than we used to. I can only hope we do. And continue to fight for it.
Bigotry will, I think, always exist. But we can't ever let it dictate our lives and access to equality. So we'll always have to fight. And though it's frustrating and discouraging...it's worth it.
Don't give up.
11/04/09
11/04/09
Regarding the whole Catholic situation, I think it's possible to overcome that. Look at Spain, one of the first countries to approve gay marriage. You have many religious people there, many non-religious too, and they seem to respect each other.
Also many young people there who identify themsleves as Catholics but who don't agree with many conservative issues. A few call them hypocrites, I call them just people who move with the times and who have decided to be dissidents from within.
I still feel sad though, but I have a bit of hope.
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I guess I was trying to find a silver lining somewhere. It's a long battle anyway, similar to women's rights. We've come a long way, but there are still many things that need to change. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
Thanks so much MerryLilly #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
Change does not roll in on the wheels of inevitability, but comes through continuous struggle. And so we must straighten our backs and work for our freedom. A man can't ride you unless your back is bent. - Martin Luther King, Jr. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
"There’s good news and bad news here. The good news is that even in one of the most liberal States in the Union, Maine, the people have once again rejected the ridiculous and oxymoronic notion of ‘same sex marriage.’ The momentum has again shifted – hopefully for good this time – in favor of protecting legitimate marriage. A counterfeit is a counterfeit. An orange is an orange no matter how much you want it to be a turnip. This isn’t about ‘marriage.’ It’s about hurting and broken people desperately seeking affirmation of an objectively deviant lifestyle. One that, even in their heart of hearts, they know to be a dead end. As for the militant ‘No on 1’ homosexual activists? I’m reminded of spoiled children dressing up and playing house, refusing to come in when mom calls for dinner. Here’s the bad news. The margin of victory could have been greater. Many behind the ‘Yes on 1’ campaign, rather than simply telling the truth, chose the Neville Chamberlain approach. They merely circled the wagons around the word ‘marriage,’ even suggesting that ‘domestic partnerships’ (‘gay marriages’ by another name) are acceptable. This makes no sense. If that’s a viable compromise, then why not simply allow 'gay' duos the word ‘marriage’? It’s an incongruity that demands an explanation. This is an historic battle for the minds and souls of our children – for our very culture. The mealy-mouthed approach must end. This is not just about ‘marriage.’ It has everything to do with forced affirmation of homosexuality – under penalty of law." —Liberty Counsel and Liberty Alliance Action director Matt Barber, on Maine's outcome
I'm speechless.
11/04/09
Stunned. #gaymarriagemaine
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I'm all for everyone having their opinions but this is flat out hatred. Let's just go ahead and call a spade a spade, shall we?! #gaymarriagemaine
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I have nothing eloquent to say. I am just sad. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
This is Maggie Gallagher, the President of the National Organization for Marriage (NOM), the group that actively campaigns against gay marriage and the LGBT community in general. She is a hateful, hateful woman.
There's a four-letter word she deserves to be called. I'll leave it all to you to decide what that word is.
Going into the election, I think most of us in the LGBT community knew Maine was going to be a difficult, and close, battle. And while the results here in Washington State are looking favorable for our "everything but marriage" law, it's still heartbreaking. And frustrating that out-of-state groups and donors are effectively dictating state laws and policy, intentionally misleading voters. And for what? To preserve their already admittedly broken and ruined marriages? Their infidelities and lies?
Fuck that.
I'm tired of these groups running behind the pearly white robes of Jesus to justify their hatred. Tired of the lies, and the claims that they're doing this because they care about children and families and preserving the 'natural order.' If you cared so much, then the tens-of-thousands of dollars spent on hateful advertising to stop gay marriage could be better used to helping family and children that are homeless, or starving, or in need of medical care. Not fattening their own wallets so they can afford expensive cars and homes and clothing for their non-stop media appearances.
So tired of this shit, and tired of having to fight for what should just be. I don't blame the citizens of Maine, there was always going to be those who voted in favor of Question 1, but those behind the campaigns? The NOMs and religious organizations? You. You I blame. And you will go down. Because you're a dying breed.
(OK, that was more ranty than I anticipated.) #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
But after about three seconds, I started talking to everyone I knew about the importance of approving R-71. Unfortunately, I can't talk to all of eastern Washington, but it's nice to see that (hopefully) the western half will carry the vote through to keep the domestic partnership law on the books.
I want to know how my dentist and his husband or my aunt and her partner are personally affecting Stickney, Gallagher, and every person in Maine and Washington who voted against him. Nobody's willing to answer that one (you cowardly, close-minded, hateful fucks). #gaymarriagemaine
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The truth is that, in most states, being a legislator is a full time job that includes a budget for staff to brief you on issues. The average person just does not have the time or the inclination to make an informed decision about all of the many issues that legislators decide.
This is not to say that citizens should not contact their representatives about issues that matter to them, but they should certainly not be voting on anything an interest group manages to get on the ballot. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
Sometimes people need, as a group, to be taken by the scruffs of their necks and SHAKEN. And I'm serious about that.
Was the national Constitutional amendment giving suffrage to women put to a popular vote? #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
11/04/09
When I was born again for 5 hot seconds in high school, I saw that church raise money for ski trips and the occasional mission trip (a vacation with a touch of self satisfaction)... but not once did I see that church, full of rich, well dressed white people, raise money for the poor, the needy, the hurting.
But they have time and money for this. Fuck the lot of them.
Sometimes I hope that God is real and that It tells these fuckers to stop speaking for It. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
I wish that someone had set us straight, and told us that maybe next time, we should spend some time raising money to buy books for disadvantaged schools, or run a Toys for Tots donation drive or something. But instead, I'm pretty sure they went on a trip to a camp every year. I can't remember. #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
11/04/09
There are religious organizations out there who do do good work in their communities, and in the world at large (just to name a few from the churches I've attended: food banks, homeless outreach programs, woman's shelters, subsidized housing for seniors, and more, funding summer camp for underprivileged kids).
Unfortunately, these are the organizations that are losing people, perhaps because they don't have the funds to send the youth groups off to fancy camps and trips ... or they don't spend all their money inciting hatred of others... #gaymarriagemaine
11/04/09
@not_kinky: You found me out! Drat! Foiled again! *huff huff* #gaymarriagemaine
11/06/09
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11/06/09
I exaggerated slightly--- it's an investigation into nuns who are 'too independent' (ie, living outside a convent), or agitating for change in the church's institutions, or are involved in community programs the Vatican deems 'unsuitable'.
I'm just really disgruntled with the current Vatican.. #gaymarriagemaine
11/06/09
I am often disgruntled with the current Vatican. I wish there was more of a push for people to become involved in communities and be less concerned with the appearance of it all. I feel like the current pope is trying to distinguish himself from John Paul II, who seemed to be beloved by practically everyone. And by doing what he is, he's certainly changed the view of the Pope, but... I don't think it's in a good way. #gaymarriagemaine
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Yesterday's vote is sad. But I remember sitting in the women's center at my college in Vermont 13 years ago listening to somebody talk about the campaign for gay marriage and compare where we were then to where we are now. While we have lost many battles, we are slowly winning the fight. #gaymarriagemaine
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Frances Russell #gaymarriagemaine