How are you a feminist in "some ways' but not in others?
Like...you believe women should have equal rights...mostly? Except when you don't?
Femnism isn't about proving that you're equal. It's about making sure that the law actually reflects that (it doesn't), and that we question cultural and social norms that seek to limit that equality.
So unless sometimes she thinks women shouldn't have equal rights, that makes no sense.
I can't even touch the ED comment because I'm kind of tired of people asking models about it. They tend to say the same thing...it's all the media, or it's barely the media. It's not particularly nuanced and it just furthers the idea that ED's are superficial. #cindycrawford
@winner: You'd think being a well-known, married supermodel would offer some protection against the usual 'You must be an ugly lesbian' accusations. #cindycrawford
I recall reading an article recently about eating disorders in the Solomon Islands (or some other South Pacific nation, I can't remember). In that culture, the beauty ideal for woman was a fairly rotund shape. Then in 1995, they got TV. And boom! 8-year-old girls on diets, disordered eating, the works.
As a North American female, I have no idea what it's like to live in a culture without TV and where it's OK to be round. *Not* thinking about how my body measures up has never been an option for me. Since a very young age, I've never had a day when I didn't check my body in the mirror or think twice about what I ate. That kind of depresses me. I didn't get to choose my culture, and now I'm stuck with the body-image thing whether I like it or not. Yuck. #cindycrawford
@candleflame: I completely agree. Many people don't realize how powerful an influence the media has over the opinions of the public.
We are conditioned every day to believe something that we might not have otherwise.
I do not think I would have developed my eating disorder if it had not been for this conditioning. I know the leading organizations on eating disorder say that it is mainly genetic but how they say so when basically everyone has been through this conditioning? #cindycrawford
@bellzar08: How kids don't have required media literacy classes along with math, science and English from kindergarten on is beyond me. Anything else you want to expose them to 4+ hours a day without saying a peep to them about how to process it, or consider how it might affect them? #cindycrawford
@Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!: Yes, exactly!There is so much missing in educational systems around the world. Facts and ideas are fed to us but we are not instructed on how to be critical and analytical of what we are literally forced to see everyday.
However I think that the internet is making up, in some degree, for what the educational systems of the world lack. Photoshop disasters, Jezebel, and even those sites that show what food really looks like opposed to what it looks like in advertisements are helping. #cindycrawford
She says that fashion can't be blamed for EDs (and no, I don't think they are the only cause, of course) because it's more about self esteem - but isn't our thin-obsessed media culture greatly reinforcing low self esteem? It's how they get people to buy the clothes. So while I don't think the media is the main cause of EDs, I don't think the effect is minimal. #cindycrawford
It's really, really, hard, but I think we need to be careful not to demonize people who believe in feminist ideals but don't call themselves feminists. They just don't know what the word means. They've been fed a lot of lies. When I discover a friend of mine doesn't identify as a feminist, it just makes my brain hurt--and my heart hurt, too, because how can someone I like so much not get it? But it's not that they're CHOOSING not to get it--they're Victims of the Patriarchy (VOPs) like the rest of us.
And some people, I think, are reluctant to call themselves feminists if they're not what I guess you'd call ACTIVE feminists. Like, they believe in all the tenets, but they don't read blogs like this one or spend a lot of time thinking/arguing about the specifics. I think the word "feminist" implies activism to a lot of people, whether or not that's valid and whether or not that's a good thing.
Gahh. I hate these kinds of quotes about feminism. Like 'Well I guess because I believe in equal rights and equal pay and all that but...' No! No but! Full stop. #cindycrawford
@futuremouse: yeah, but I also think that when someone fully proclaims herself to be a feminist, then the scrutiny begins on that side. I understand, I think I am a feminist, but also have a hard time completely reconciling parts of myself that maybe are not. I think that is the reason, at least for me, that I sometimes qualify statements myself. so I understand her doing the same. #cindycrawford
@futuremouse: They're scared of being "unattractive". Barf. When I'm asked that question, I repeat my favorite Courtney Love quotation, " I am a bomb-throwing feminist." Just so ya know! #cindycrawford
All I know is that when I was a little girl and I put on makeup (blue eyeshadow, pink lipstick) the last thing I did was draw a mole on my cheek with eyeliner. I drew that mole on because I knew that Cindy Crawford was the most beautiful woman in the world. It wasn't because she was thin, or tall. She certainly didn't look like an emaciated alien like the high fashion models of today. It was the mole. At least, that's what 9 year-old me thought.
Frankly, I'd rather have my (future) daughter think that unusal body quirks are what make you beautiful, rather than your weight. #cindycrawford
No. I mean, I believe women are equal and deserve dignity and equal pay and that we shouldn't be defined by our gender and that we should have autonomy, but no I'm not a feminist. I mean, I know I'm equal so I don't need to be a feminist. I think women are good drivers and that we shouldn't be beaten and that we should get to vote, but no... not a feminist. No feminists here.
Do people really think feminists think they don't already know women and men are equal?
@thoughtthinker: Sigh. Yeah, she makes it sound like contemporary feminists have set things back by pointing out that inequalities still exists. #cindycrawford
@thoughtthinker: I see that kind of reply a lot, but I think hers is a little more nuanced than 'ew, not the f word.' It seems to be more that she hasn't really considered it because she has had the privilege of benefiting from the feminists that came before her and fought for equality. Which, I find very interesting because that's the perspective held by a lot of women 20 years younger than her. It's odd that she was born in the 60's, has been all over the world, lived 40+ years, and still feels this way. #cindycrawford
@Penny: Especially when you read the whole answer:
Q: Fashion gets blamed for encouraging eating disorders.
"That's a little bit of a stretch. I don't know that much about eating disorders, but I'm certainly not one of the people they've blamed, because I'm not super-skinny. I think people want to find something to blame. An eating disorder is way more than a girl looking at a magazine and seeing a picture of a skinny model. Maybe that's one tiny piece of the puzzle, but I think it's a lot more about self-esteem and self-love and control, so it's too simplistic to just blame it on models who are skinny." #cindycrawford
@Penny: For sure. Too often I feel the media is blamed entirely for ED. It is most definitely a contribution, but if it were the direct cause, all women would have ED, as the media's concept of beauty is inescapable in our society. #cindycrawford
@Penny: Well, we've had this conversation before, I think, but I don't see how people can maintain that culture has only a minimal effect on EDs. I mean, let's assume ED sufferers are biologically preprogrammed to believe they need to become invisible. The culture certainly helps them out by ratifying their inner feelings as true, no? #cindycrawford
@PilgrimSoul: I have no idea about this, but I wonder about the ED rates in cultures where skinny does not equal ideal. I understand there are a ton of things at play in EDs, but I can't see how a thin-obsessed culture like ours can have only a minimal effect on EDs. #cindycrawford
@PilgrimSoul: I'm loathe to accept that I ever had a diagnosable ED, but having a lot of experience with "troubles" I can say that while I did have photos of very thin models taped into my journals and thin women in general were an inspiration of sorts, I don't think they were a main factor. At all. In fact, as I still deal with purging behaviors, I can tell you that a photo of a thin woman is never the catalyst. ED behaviors are generally driven by a need for control, or punishment, etc etc. So, while it is a contributing factor, and I would never disagree with this, I still do not believe it's the main factor, nor do I think it should be blamed as such. #cindycrawford
@Penny: I would like to add to this, however, that this is MY personal experience. And while general claims can be made about EDs, I don't speak for anyone else's experience. Just what I have gotten from my own. #cindycrawford
@descent: Because it's not just about being thin, but a culture that thrives on perfection and success. You have to look at the overall culture, not just beauty ideals. #cindycrawford
@lolabee: Well, I would argue that our culture in particular promotes two extreme body types, very thin and very womanly. The latter often requiring surgery.
@Penny: I agree that it's not the main factor, but to say it's just a minimal factor is sort of glossing over things. For some, eating disorders involve a need to be "perfect" (stemming from a belief that one is deeply flawed, or unlovable and must be fixed). In today's world, being perfect includes being thin, and we're constantly receiving that message from the media and fashion industry. Having had an ED, I certainly know that there was more at work than just media images, but for myself and the many other women I've known who've struggled with EDs and disordered eating, the thinsperational media barrage was always a full backdrop, not just a tiny sliver piercing our consciousness. #cindycrawford
@tallgirl-in-heels: I think, more than anything, it acts as a constant, numbing reminder. Because it's so deeply ingrained in our culture, at this point, it's inescapable. I don't think it's a tiny piercing, but I also don't think it's the main issue. Personally, that is. #cindycrawford
@PilgrimSoul: I'd agree. I feel like the ED discussion always ends up in these extremes...it's ALL the medias fault! It's ALL personal issues!
It's just as fair to say that self-esteem isn't the main issue in an eating disorder, since plenty of people have that and don' t try to starve themselves to death (bearing in mind that not all ED's are restrictive).
Each individual has different triggers, different reasons why an ED was/is their outlet. Not only does our culture idealize slim bodies, but it also idealizes body control, weight control, and dieting/food. Our culture has an extremely dysfunctional attitude about women and their bodies, our role in the world, everything.
To me, it's the conflict between all of it that helps create an ED in the individual. It's all interrelated.
@judgingamy: I dislike the all blame being laid on the media as well, but for a slightly different. It's too simplistic and dismissive. It's a way of making ED's seem superficial and almost "silly", something vapid girls develop because of aesthetics.
It's certainly a component for some people but it's not all of it.
I think the media perpetuates certain cultural ideals, which influences the individual. So it's a component. But trying to make ED's only one thing bothers me. It feels like a way to ignore the complex nature of them. #cindycrawford
@descent: In non-Western cultures EDs are practically non-existent. The higher the Western influence over their culture, the higher the ED prevalence. In societies that are getting increasingly modernised/Westernised they are starting to see eating disorders appear. Anorexia is so limited to the Western world as to be considered a culture-bound syndrome. It is a very, very culturally informed illness. There is no getting around that. #cindycrawford
I like a lot of her sentiments, but I find some of them infuriating - and opinions that I've run into before. Feminists don't set out to 'prove' a point that they already know; as Crawford pointed out, the point is already proven. The problem is that this fact does not always translate into social spheres, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out when it happens and changing it.
Furthermore, while self-esteem does play a large role in eating disabilities, I do not think it is reasonable to say that the fashion industry does not create a climate that is detrimental to the self-esteem of young girls. Much of the marketing that is out there today is all about improvement, improvement, improvement, buy this product, try this exercise, do this, do that, don't do that - there is a low historical precedent for the message that young girls are good enough just the way they are. #cindycrawford
I'm also wondering if the list is meant to attract some female readers, and unlike males, females don't care about what other females are earning. They care about what they're doing. Men like to take someone's earnings and divide it by Bugatti Veyrons.
@Aaron Martin-Colby: I don't know about you, but I like to divide earnings by Louis Vuitton bags. Sometimes I mix it up and do it by Marc Jacobs instead, just for kicks.
11/12/09
Like...you believe women should have equal rights...mostly? Except when you don't?
Femnism isn't about proving that you're equal. It's about making sure that the law actually reflects that (it doesn't), and that we question cultural and social norms that seek to limit that equality.
So unless sometimes she thinks women shouldn't have equal rights, that makes no sense.
I can't even touch the ED comment because I'm kind of tired of people asking models about it. They tend to say the same thing...it's all the media, or it's barely the media. It's not particularly nuanced and it just furthers the idea that ED's are superficial. #cindycrawford
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FEMININE-ists on the other hand... #cindycrawford
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As a North American female, I have no idea what it's like to live in a culture without TV and where it's OK to be round. *Not* thinking about how my body measures up has never been an option for me. Since a very young age, I've never had a day when I didn't check my body in the mirror or think twice about what I ate. That kind of depresses me. I didn't get to choose my culture, and now I'm stuck with the body-image thing whether I like it or not. Yuck. #cindycrawford
11/12/09
We are conditioned every day to believe something that we might not have otherwise.
I do not think I would have developed my eating disorder if it had not been for this conditioning. I know the leading organizations on eating disorder say that it is mainly genetic but how they say so when basically everyone has been through this conditioning? #cindycrawford
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However I think that the internet is making up, in some degree, for what the educational systems of the world lack. Photoshop disasters, Jezebel, and even those sites that show what food really looks like opposed to what it looks like in advertisements are helping. #cindycrawford
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is like saying "I'm not a Christian, but ... " and then reciting the Nicene Creed. #cindycrawford
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And some people, I think, are reluctant to call themselves feminists if they're not what I guess you'd call ACTIVE feminists. Like, they believe in all the tenets, but they don't read blogs like this one or spend a lot of time thinking/arguing about the specifics. I think the word "feminist" implies activism to a lot of people, whether or not that's valid and whether or not that's a good thing.
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Chicken/Egg
Egg/Chicken
? #cindycrawford
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Frankly, I'd rather have my (future) daughter think that unusal body quirks are what make you beautiful, rather than your weight. #cindycrawford
11/12/09
Are you a feminist?
No. I mean, I believe women are equal and deserve dignity and equal pay and that we shouldn't be defined by our gender and that we should have autonomy, but no I'm not a feminist. I mean, I know I'm equal so I don't need to be a feminist. I think women are good drivers and that we shouldn't be beaten and that we should get to vote, but no... not a feminist. No feminists here.
Do people really think feminists think they don't already know women and men are equal?
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Q: Fashion gets blamed for encouraging eating disorders.
"That's a little bit of a stretch. I don't know that much about eating disorders, but I'm certainly not one of the people they've blamed, because I'm not super-skinny. I think people want to find something to blame. An eating disorder is way more than a girl looking at a magazine and seeing a picture of a skinny model. Maybe that's one tiny piece of the puzzle, but I think it's a lot more about self-esteem and self-love and control, so it's too simplistic to just blame it on models who are skinny." #cindycrawford
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It's just as fair to say that self-esteem isn't the main issue in an eating disorder, since plenty of people have that and don' t try to starve themselves to death (bearing in mind that not all ED's are restrictive).
Each individual has different triggers, different reasons why an ED was/is their outlet. Not only does our culture idealize slim bodies, but it also idealizes body control, weight control, and dieting/food. Our culture has an extremely dysfunctional attitude about women and their bodies, our role in the world, everything.
To me, it's the conflict between all of it that helps create an ED in the individual. It's all interrelated.
11/12/09
It's certainly a component for some people but it's not all of it.
I think the media perpetuates certain cultural ideals, which influences the individual. So it's a component. But trying to make ED's only one thing bothers me. It feels like a way to ignore the complex nature of them. #cindycrawford
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11/12/09
Furthermore, while self-esteem does play a large role in eating disabilities, I do not think it is reasonable to say that the fashion industry does not create a climate that is detrimental to the self-esteem of young girls. Much of the marketing that is out there today is all about improvement, improvement, improvement, buy this product, try this exercise, do this, do that, don't do that - there is a low historical precedent for the message that young girls are good enough just the way they are. #cindycrawford
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