@hfree: It's plausible. The fact that she didn't run away and escape or scream for help constantly during the search was held against her before. Some juries like victims to be Victims, especially if the case involves sex crimes. (Oh, you didn't sob hysterically and claw at your attacker? And you want us to think you were being raped?)
The Nancy Grace video someone posted below illustrates that, with her condescending to Elizabeth about how close she was being held captive, and didn't she hear anyone calling her name and want to cry out?
@Katxyz: That's true, but I also think that Elizabeth had pretty extreme Stockholm. When she was found, she kept giving a false name and she said something like "I know you think I'm that Elizabeth Smart girl, but I'm not."
I hope juries would realize that when a man steals you out of your house in the dead of night, rapes you, and says he'll kill you and your family if you scream and you are only 14 years old, you're probably going to do what he says. I hesitate to use the word "brainwashed", but it was clear when she was recovered and for some time after her return, she was not herself.
Oh, she most certainly had Stockholm, and I think Nancy Grace was obnoxious in that clip---why yes, Nancy, I'm sure she did want to scream for help. Good call.--I was just agreeing with utensil42 that sometimes being strong and resilient in the face of these type of things can be used against you in court.
@hfree: Yes. Adult victims of sexual abuse, or (as in this case) adults testifying about childhood sexual abuse, are less believed by juries in general and especially when their testimony is delivered calmly and confidentlly.
That poor child has grown into an wonderful strong woman. How rare is this, though? How many girls who are raped come even close to recovering and going on with their lives?
@intime: I've been raped and I'm a strong woman. I've recovered and am able now to go on with my life.
While the circumstances of all rapes are not the same, considering how many women have been raped by men, probably a good many of us have healed. Rape is so common. Society would shut down if our trauma was insurmountable.
The poise and confidence this young woman has shown throughout her entire experience is inspiring. Heres to hoping that her kidnapper and attacker goes to prison forever that she goes on to do great things.
Also, Elisha Cuthbert would totally play her in a Lifetime movie. The resemblence is uncanny.
Her kidnapping was carefully planned and executed and he actively worked to keep her hidden. How can this not be the work of a competent person?
It's reprehensible that so many twisted kidnappers seem to justify their sexual and physical abuse with religious talk. And it's an automatic prelude to an insanity plea in most cases. If he had been singing itsy bitsy spider and calling the judge a fucker, I'm sure no one would be doubting his sanity.
@truckasaurus is jackie jormp-jomp: Isn't it usually about whether the person is competent at the time of the trial? He may have been competent then and had a psychotic break since then or something.
@cate3710: That's a good point and it's definitely possible he experienced such a break. But it's hard to not think it's also convenient timing in the change in his personality.
@chrysaline area: It's beyond "religious talk". He claims to be a prophet, has written a manifesto, and is completely disruptive in court. He claims he kidnapped Elizabeth Smart to marry her to fulfill God's desire for plural marriage. If he isn't putting on an act, then he is suffering from severe delusion and believes God is speaking to him. He has refused medication and in the state he is currently in he cannot effectively assist in his defense. My sister works in news and has seen hearings - she says guy is straight-up crazy and nonfunctional. His insanity just happens to have a severe religious flavor. Even if it is an act, that kind of behavior warrants a competency hearing, especially since he is unable or unwilling to participate in his own defense.
@Triana Orpheus: I read in another article that after he was thrown out for singing, she requested to have him muzzled so that she could face him and make him listen to the horrible things he did. I have so much admiration for the strength and poise of this woman. She is really amazing.
@Triana Orpheus: I don't know about that. I could see him wanting to be there so he could stare at her and try to re-exert some semblance of the control over her he once had.
My God- she is so collected and mature. I am reeling by her strength. And to look at her- she is so poised and she just looks like she is at peace with herself.
I am not sure where she gets her strength from- be it her support system, her faith, whatever- but we should all be so fortunate. I know so many who have been completely shattered by so much less.
good for her that she can move forward. it sounds like Mitchell knew what he did was wrong and that he could be punished for it. i'm sure a competency hearing establishes more than 'knows the difference between right and wrong' but that part always seems to be stressed (on tv) and seems important. i hope he's in jail forever.
She is unbelievable. If I only had a fraction of the strength she has. I've let a date rape, and other much smaller catastrophes than her's, control my life. I can't imagine wanting to be alive after what she's been through, let alone being so happy and stable. What an amazing person.
As for the new details about what that man did to her, I truly have no words.
@Eriu: Don't belittle yourself or the horror of what happened to you. Date Rape is Rape Rape; I often wonder if it isn't worse to be victimized by someone you know than the proverbial stranger-jumping-out-of-the-bushes.
@Eriu: I agree with femputer. Don't trivialize your rape by attaching "date" in front of it as if that somehow makes it less of a violation. I can't think of any other crimes in which knowing the offender beforehand warrants a different label. It's so odd, at best.
And don't say you "let" this control your life. Rape is an incredible trauma and we don't exactly live in a culture that recognizes that. I'm sure you're doing the best you can.
@femputer: @AndalucÃa: She's not necessarily belittling or trivializing her rape. While there are rape apologists who think date rape isn't rape-rape, it's not inherently trivializing. Like you said, it's a uniquely shitty experience to be raped by someone you care about.
@Our Lady of the Massacre: I thought about that as well. I wonder if maybe she did but, like a lot of women, had a miscarriage so early she didn't know she was pregnant?
Either way, I can't imagine a child having to know they were borne of this. I shudder at the thought of it.
I read the testimony on the Salt Lake Tribune Web site yesterday and how he "married" her and then raped her-she had to have known what was coming. Oh god I'm about to cry thinking of it.
@ritualtheory: It does seem unlikely that she wouldn't, unless the stress of the daily trauma somehow prevented it.
There were rumors that the family denied that she *was* pregnant when she was finally found, mostly because she looked a lot "curvier" than before she was kidnapped, but then looked less curvy a week later when her hometown welcomed her back.
Regardless, she has come through this remarkably well it seems, and I do hope her family has allowed her to be open enough about her experience and not just repressed it (her father has always rubbed me the wrong way for some reason).
@intime: If she wants to keep the abortion of a pregnancy conceived from rape secret, more power to her. In fact, if any woman wants to keep her abortion secret she has my blessing. It's a personal decision, and a personal procedure.
I'm very proud of her for so many reasons. She has always remained calm, collected and strong. She advocates for tougher laws, not for book deals. It's great to see that she has become a well-adjusted, levelheaded young woman.
@o-line: She was calm, cool, and collected a few years ago when she totally shot down Nancy Grace, who was being pushy and intrusive. It was awesome, and Elizabeth displayed poise beyond her years...
@formergr: Wow. Could Nancy Grace be more condescending?
Her apology after Elizabeth Smart tells her that she doesn't appreciate being grilled on the particulars (for those who can't watch vid at work): I`m sorry, dear. I thought that you would speak out to other victims. But you know what? I completely understand. A lot of victims don`t want to talk about it and don`t feel like talking about it.
It is as though she feels Ms. Smart has some sort of obligation to behave in a certain way. I find so many people have expectations for how victims should behave or what victims owe other people. Elizabeth Smart and I are the same age; I know I would never have her strength in a similar situation. I am extremely humbled that she has chosen to be a public advocate. But she has no obligation to anyone - no victim does. This mindset drives me insane.
@alwayswrite: Not that I ever liked her, but Nancy Grace showed a really petty and unpleasant side of herself with that "apology" that you reference-- she knew she just got owned by a teenager, and did the most back-handed, passive-aggressive insult that she could get away with.
@formergr: "I'm sorry dear"? That whole apology was bunk, especially considering that Elizabeth HAS spoken out to other victims and there have been two books written by her family. If you really want to roll around in the shitty details, they're available. And "Were you glad people were looking for you?" What the hell kind of question is that? "No, Nancy, I was really enjoying being torn from my loving family and beautiful home to hide out in the foothills chained to a tree with my crazy rapist and his equally crazy wife. I hoped I'd never be found!"
Elizabeth, I think I saw an eye roll on your part and I love you just that much more for it.
@formergr: Why is she talking to her like a deaf 5 year old? She keeps obsessively using the phrases "little" and "girl" and "victim" and the condensation in Nancy Grace's voice is disgusting and grating. I hadn't seen that interview before and I loved that Elizabeth rolled her eyes when asked if she was afraid and replied, "Yeah, I was afraid." I think in Nancy Grace's mind she was interviewing a five year old child not a grown woman.
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The Nancy Grace video someone posted below illustrates that, with her condescending to Elizabeth about how close she was being held captive, and didn't she hear anyone calling her name and want to cry out?
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I hope juries would realize that when a man steals you out of your house in the dead of night, rapes you, and says he'll kill you and your family if you scream and you are only 14 years old, you're probably going to do what he says. I hesitate to use the word "brainwashed", but it was clear when she was recovered and for some time after her return, she was not herself.
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Oh, she most certainly had Stockholm, and I think Nancy Grace was obnoxious in that clip---why yes, Nancy, I'm sure she did want to scream for help. Good call.--I was just agreeing with utensil42 that sometimes being strong and resilient in the face of these type of things can be used against you in court.
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While the circumstances of all rapes are not the same, considering how many women have been raped by men, probably a good many of us have healed. Rape is so common. Society would shut down if our trauma was insurmountable.
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Also, Elisha Cuthbert would totally play her in a Lifetime movie. The resemblence is uncanny.
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It's reprehensible that so many twisted kidnappers seem to justify their sexual and physical abuse with religious talk. And it's an automatic prelude to an insanity plea in most cases. If he had been singing itsy bitsy spider and calling the judge a fucker, I'm sure no one would be doubting his sanity.
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I am not sure where she gets her strength from- be it her support system, her faith, whatever- but we should all be so fortunate. I know so many who have been completely shattered by so much less.
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As for the new details about what that man did to her, I truly have no words.
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You do have strength; you're still here. xoxo
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And don't say you "let" this control your life. Rape is an incredible trauma and we don't exactly live in a culture that recognizes that. I'm sure you're doing the best you can.
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Either way, I can't imagine a child having to know they were borne of this. I shudder at the thought of it.
I read the testimony on the Salt Lake Tribune Web site yesterday and how he "married" her and then raped her-she had to have known what was coming. Oh god I'm about to cry thinking of it.
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There were rumors that the family denied that she *was* pregnant when she was finally found, mostly because she looked a lot "curvier" than before she was kidnapped, but then looked less curvy a week later when her hometown welcomed her back.
Regardless, she has come through this remarkably well it seems, and I do hope her family has allowed her to be open enough about her experience and not just repressed it (her father has always rubbed me the wrong way for some reason).
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[www.youtube.com]
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Her apology after Elizabeth Smart tells her that she doesn't appreciate being grilled on the particulars (for those who can't watch vid at work): I`m sorry, dear. I thought that you would speak out to other victims. But you know what? I completely understand. A lot of victims don`t want to talk about it and don`t feel like talking about it.
It is as though she feels Ms. Smart has some sort of obligation to behave in a certain way. I find so many people have expectations for how victims should behave or what victims owe other people. Elizabeth Smart and I are the same age; I know I would never have her strength in a similar situation. I am extremely humbled that she has chosen to be a public advocate. But she has no obligation to anyone - no victim does. This mindset drives me insane.
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Elizabeth, I think I saw an eye roll on your part and I love you just that much more for it.
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