"her actions, which include punching another player in the back, possibly throwing a punch at the back of an opponent's head, several instances of elbowing and tripping, and most notably, grabbing the ponytail of a BYU player and yanking her toward the ground."
uuhh, lady, Torsten Frings missed the World Cup semi-final for allegedly punching an Argentine player in the back during a fight (that the Argentines started); and he had to miss subsequent matches during the following season.
And male players DO get suspended. Even the ones for Real Madrid - the douchiest bunch of douches that ever douched.
@That_little_attention_whore: and yes, Real Madrid's coach did try to minimize it, but then again, it's Real Madrid, the douchiest bunch of douches that ever douched (did I mention that? I don't believe I did) and he got a 10 match suspension from La Liga and was fined.
I played soccer in high school and have always loved the sport because of its physicality. When I watched the extended clip, I was pretty unimpressed by most of the fouls. The punch to the back, etc. were no big deal in my opinion - there's a lot of jostling and everyone, male and female, tries to get in an extra shirt tug, elbow, etc.
However, the hair pull is what did it for me. That's not a body check, elbow to the ribs, or anything related to the play, but just a flat-out violent act. She should be ashamed of herself. I don't think that the story would have gotten less coverage if it were a collegiate male player, but obviously the stories wouldn't be framed through a sexist lens, like "ugly behavior from such a beautiful player!" It would just be "look at these out of control violent fouls!" The fact that professionals do worse things is irrelevant - this isn't a professional league, but rather college, which makes a huge difference, I think.
Anyway, I have no sympathy for this woman. If you play that far above and beyond the rules, you risk getting caught and facing the consequences. I just hope none of her opponents were hurt.
@KittyKittyCat: To date Martin Taylor has never apologized, was not fined, nor given a red card. This could have been a career ending injury. Try and tell me that she acted more aggressively than he did. She was provoked and seems to be taking responsibility for her actions (seeing a therapist, etc.).
This is just one example of violence that is common in football. These men are professionals who rarely have account for their actions. Do we see these splashed all over television? No. It's just aggressive well played football. There might be a bit of discussion about how the lads should tone it down a bit, but they are certainly not villanized, but rather admired by people all over the world for their actions. Sorry, but this is a case of sexism, plain and simple. I'm just proud of Ms. Lambert for being accountable for her actions and setting a sportsmanlike example for others who let their emotions get the better of them.
@RenoDakota: Haha... what tipped you off? I know there are other bad tackles out there, but these were just the first ones that popped into my mind. I was trying to find a non-Gooner related tackle that the Dirty Tackle posted a whlie back, but to no avail.
@KittyKittyCat: Taylor WAS sent off for that tackle. And he received a three-match ban - yes, that's just the standard ban, but it's not like he got off without any punishment.
@KittyKittyCat: I'm not sure you can say it's just sexism. Sexism is playing a role in the hype and sensationalism, and likely a great deal of the condemnation is coming from people that might be more likely to dismiss the behavior in a man.
But at the end of the day, the clips you are showing just demonstrate that these men should be punished for the acts on the field. And so should Ms. Lambert.
@curiousgeorgiana: I don't think I am making myself clear. To me the sexism WAS the sensationalist way in which her actions were presented. And it was sexist. I am merely trying to show that things like this happen every day without them being splashed all over the papers as unusual. I NEVER said she shouldn't be punished. She is being punished and she is taking responsibility. I'm glad that she is. Go read the whole NYT article.
Yeah, okay, it IS rare but you didn't get on ESPN or the internets because you are a female doing what you did, Lambert. You got on there because out of the millions of soccer games that us soccer fans watch- we have never seen so many blatant-actually blatant isn't the word, just plain absurdly dangerous fouls that were (1)unrestrictedly administered to those involved in an active play as well as those not actively in a play and (2) so unnecessary and unrelated to the normal course of intentional fouls one sees in soccer.
Forget the ponytail pull, which yeah, was insane and not something that would have to be restricted to women's soccer- she flat out pulls an opposing player's face to her by her hair and then punches her in the face in mid air.
I don't care about her punching the girl in the back. BYU gave her a shot to the ribs and she punched her back which was out of line but not ESPN or noteworthy.
I don't for a second chalk this up to sexism any more than I would chalk Serena's outburst being given attention because she is black. Lambert needs to just own up. When you act like a nut like Zidane, you need to accept you are going to be all over the internet and ESPN.
Edited by Zombies make the heart grow fonder at 11/18/09 10:35 PM
Zombies make the heart grow fonder was starred
Zombies make the heart grow fonder was unstarred
@Diziet_Sma: But that is ONE event. Things like this happen every single week in leagues around the world and no one brings attention to it. The Zidane headbutt was at a World Cup final, which is why it got airtime.
Ever heard of Martin Taylor? Abou Diaby? Both of those players severely injured (read:broken bones) other players in a very intentional manner and were never villanized like Elizabeth Lambert was.
@KittyKittyCat: "Things like this happen every single week in leagues around the world and no one brings attention to it."
What? Im sure you watch Match of the Day and listen to Five Live. Players who engage in dangerous play/elbowing/late tackles etc are called out by the pundits on there, week in, week out. What about Ballack elbowing Evra? Or Joey Barton going in for the stupid late tackle against Xabi Alonso? (These are just two I can remember off the top of my head). To say they suffer no backlash is untrue.
(I don't mean to single out your comments, but I just had to reply again...)
@heykoukla: ah, Michael Ballack. He could pile-drive a guy in the penalty area, then pull out a knife and proceed to stab the guy repeatedly about the neck and chest, and the most he would get is a yellow card. And he would give the ref that "whaaaa?" look.
Actually, three years ago he would have done it. Nowadays he would probably go after the ref with the knife.
I used to really dislike him as a player, but now that's he's getting older, and the end of his career is in sight, he's starting to get kind of desperate and I am kind of enjoying him now that he's bringing the crazy. I'm pretty sure that if Germany doesn't win the World Cup next year, he is going to totally snap. I don't know what he will do, but, you better watch your back, Metze.
@heykoukla: Yes they occasionally get called out, but to the same degree Ms. Lambert did? Rarely. And even rarer that they take responsibility for it like she is.
(Don't worry, I don't feel singled out. This is something I feel VERY strongly about as a football fan and a women and a former player who has engaged in the same behaviors Elizabeth has. I've been all over this thread.)
@That_little_attention_whore: That is freakin' hilarious, I am cracking up at the image of Michael Ballack running, The Shining-style, through the locker rooms!
Poor Ballack, he's a busy little midfielder bee, but damn, if any player is a jinx, it's him.
@KittyKittyCat: I'd agree that the fact that this story has made the non-sports news over the top, and to do with the "novelty" of violence in women's sports.
But if we're talking about how the players have been treated within their own sport, well, I'd say their punishment has been pretty equal. Lambert gets an indefinite ban for several incidents during that match. And, for example, Adebayor gets a three-match ban for stomping on van Persie's face. And a three-match ban in a multi-million-pound league in which teams are under pressure every single week isn't a light punishment, by any means.
@heykoukla: well, what do you expect - the only player on the German national team from the former GDR -and who is old enough to remember Erich Honnecker. I blame whatever drugs the East Germans were spiking his cheerios with in the sports academy in Chemnitz.
@heykoukla: Pepe got 10 for kicking a guy (twice) and punching another player, missing champions league and regular league. plus - the really violent players do get noticed, and get called out. i would recommend anyone here to get on youtube and search for "materazzi's greatest hits." Why, yes, the guy Zidane headbutted has a reputation for being one of the biggest thugs in the game. I know - it's like rain on your wedding day.
@That_little_attention_whore: Oh yeah, Materazzi! True story: a few months after the 2006 World Cup, I was in the Aosta valley, in a bar which was crammed full of Inter Milan fans - there was a game on that night. My husband and I were chatting to the barman and asked him about Materazzi and the headbutt. The barman said "We just cannot believe that Materazzi would say something bad to Zidane. He used to be a bad boy, but now he has changed, he's a good boy."
So the game starts, and about 20 minutes in, Materazzi jostles with a player, knocks him over. The guy gets up and - I kid you not - headbutts Materazzi in the chin! The whole crowd started booing and saying "Zidane due (Zidane the 2nd)!" Of course, being Inter fans, Materazzi somehow was the good guy. Ah, the blind belief of a club supporter.
I don't know enough about sports to know if she got more attention as a female. But if so I don't think the problem is that she got more attention/trouble but that men get less.
I agree that people tend to view aggressive behavior in sports as a male thing and look down upon it when females do it.
However - what she did was not simple aggressive behavior. She committed multiple fouls and engaged in dangerous play that would even get you a red card in RUGBY (and I fuckin play rugby - tight 5, holla). What she did stepped beyond "aggressive behavior" and into unsportsmanlike conduct and dangerous play.
@curiousgeorgiana: Oh yeah, you can't pull that shit in rugby, she'd have been sin binned at least. I've seen professional players sin binned for accidental tackles that weren't as bad as her hitting that other girl in the face or pulling her down by her ponytail. It's straight up dangerous behaviour.
@shorty63136: She is not playing Rugby...but soccer... have you ever seen how rough and competitive Premier League soccer is? Seriously, watch a Man U v Arsenal game... or any game.
The males players may not pull ponytails but they are effin aggressive, just as much as Elizabeth if not more so.
@Tangy.Nihilista.Barcelona: I know it's soccer, which makes it an even more civil game, by comparison. I understand aggression and I understand roughness - but pulling a person down by their ponytail or bashing them in their face is 100% unacceptable. You even admit - male players don't do it. Why should she? This is not sexist, it's unsportsmanlike behavior and dangerous play. If you want to be an aggressive player, be aggressive and win - but don't be that player that has to play all-out dirty to win.
I know people who play high-level soccer - even they were appalled.
There are some major points in this article that need to be discussed but I wanted to make one quick point.
Lambert wasn't just aggressive, she was dangerous. She didn't just punch one player in the back, and then yank another by the hair violently to the ground (that's happened to me before, and it can result in a concussion by the way).
She was violent throughout the entire game. She took players out at the knees, tripped others, and slid into defenseless players, not involved in the play. She could have seriously injured these women and ended their college careers (scholarships) and future sport goals.
Men and women should be banned for this type of behavior.
@curiousgeorgiana: I'm a UNM student, and a former soccer player. behavior like this during a high school game resulted in my right knee being busted up so hard I had to have a replacement; I was violently tackled to the ground during a jump save (I was a goalkeeper) and it RUINED my career. I lost out on a significant athletic scholarship to UNM because of it, as well as losing my ability to play the game I love ever again. I can't even BEGIN to explain how much that devastated me. I'm glad she's being punished for it, personally.
She does have a point about the gender difference, though. UNM's football coach, who has allegedly sexually harassed several female employees and then tried to beat the crap out of his own assistant coach, and has gotten what is essentially some time in the naughty chair and a slap on the wrist. It's disgusting.
@curiousgeorgiana: Pulling of the ponytail aside, she played just as aggressive as men do in World Cup and Premier League soccer. She is overly criticized because she of some preconceived notions about how women should act and not act in sports.
Plus, I didn't see ESPN do a montage of all of Zinedine Zidane's aggressive play after he headbutted Marco Materazzi in the World Cup, and trust me, Zidane is a hell of an aggressive player.
@Tangy.Nihilista.Barcelona: I don't doubt that she got more attention than a male player. My point was that, male or female, her multiple acts throughout the game should have resulted in suspension.
I don't watch ESPN everyday, but I vividly remember them doing long segments on Zidane. And rightfully so. The behavior is inexcusable.
@curiousgeorgiana: Honestly, minus the pony-tail pulling, I'd call that good tackling. It's nothing compared to what I see men doing in competitive soccer games every week.
@curiousgeorgiana: Zidane was ONE player at a FINAL of a WORLD CUP. AKA the most watched sporting event in the world. The headbutt wasn't as big of a deal as the fact that France lost one of their best players in the last few minutes of a WC Final. If he hadn't gotten coverage it would have been shocking.
@curiousgeorgiana: The jostling and the elbowing is something that happens in football week in, week out, every time a player takes a corner (Although she's not as good at disguising it as other players are). And there was one tackle in there that I thought was fair - she got the ball, and it was a clean challenge.
Having said that, the "challenge" where she tripped the player just outside the box? It was so poor it was ridiculous. And the one where she punched the girl in the face? Plain dirty.
@heykoukla: I agree. I don't think anyone is denying the violence that goes on in these type of matches. It's not uncommon. In this match she was just particular over the line and crossed into really dangerous territory. Men do it. Women do it. both should be punished when it goes this far.
She's right that it got much more -- and a different kind of -- attention because she's a woman. She's also right to accept any punishment the school metes out, because man or woman, that was really atrocious behavior.
@Lizabelle: "The point is that these kinds of "dirty" tactics (elbows, jersey pulling, tripping) are all part of how soccer is played."
Er, no it's not. Not to mix my sporting metaphors or anything, but to play like that is just not cricket. FFS- that shit is dangerous, not to mention (obviously) verboten; she should have been pulled up on all of those infractions. Dirty plays like those are an insult to the Beautiful Game. #elizabethlambertdatingad
Wow.
I can't believe Elizabeth Lambert wasn't thrown off the field and out of the game sooner. Not necessarily for What she did, but for the officiating that must have turned huge blind eyes to the game at hand to miss such blatant fouls.
Players talk, ESPECIALLY women. And as a referee, you can tell the exaggerations from the truth. So what happened here?!?
Alright, I admit, at first I was scared the world was headed on a terror against girls who play hard. But that girl did Not head out on to the pitch against BYU without some prior hair-pulling, come-from-behind-tackling and cleating experience. Lambert knew exactly what she was doing, and she's only apologetic she got caught.
All she did was retaliate, and, sure, it was a little more than what the opponent dished out, but that's what retaliation's all about. Lambert was continually trying to get the upper hand, or even force her opponent into exacting her own vengeance, then get caught by the ref. Instead, she got caught. It's a risk you take, and it sucks for her.
So I suppose I'm actually a little sad for her that she got suspended, because those BYU girls weren't saints either, but how many of them will be suspended for their own unsporting behavior? #forthoodmassacre
Ugh. The Fort Hood story punches me in the heart again. I'm really depressed about the lack of comprehensive and sustained psychiatric care for vets, and if this does indeed turn out to be PTSD related, I will fucking punch a wall.
If the Military Industrial Complex is such a dominant force in this country, why does it care so little for the human beings that carry out it's missions? #forthoodmassacre
Hey Georgia Legislative Counsel Sewell Brumby: if you are thinking, at work, about colleagues' sexual organs under their clothes, YOU have the problem and should try to deal with it. Leave them alone. #forthoodmassacre
I breastfeed Lil Ruby (she's 10 months), but any benefits she gets from my milk is most likely offset by the fact that I feed her while watching The Real Housewives of Atlanta. #forthoodmassacre
11/19/09
uuhh, lady, Torsten Frings missed the World Cup semi-final for allegedly punching an Argentine player in the back during a fight (that the Argentines started); and he had to miss subsequent matches during the following season.
And male players DO get suspended. Even the ones for Real Madrid - the douchiest bunch of douches that ever douched.
11/19/09
11/19/09
However, the hair pull is what did it for me. That's not a body check, elbow to the ribs, or anything related to the play, but just a flat-out violent act. She should be ashamed of herself. I don't think that the story would have gotten less coverage if it were a collegiate male player, but obviously the stories wouldn't be framed through a sexist lens, like "ugly behavior from such a beautiful player!" It would just be "look at these out of control violent fouls!" The fact that professionals do worse things is irrelevant - this isn't a professional league, but rather college, which makes a huge difference, I think.
Anyway, I have no sympathy for this woman. If you play that far above and beyond the rules, you risk getting caught and facing the consequences. I just hope none of her opponents were hurt.
11/19/09
11/19/09
This is just one example of violence that is common in football. These men are professionals who rarely have account for their actions. Do we see these splashed all over television? No. It's just aggressive well played football. There might be a bit of discussion about how the lads should tone it down a bit, but they are certainly not villanized, but rather admired by people all over the world for their actions. Sorry, but this is a case of sexism, plain and simple. I'm just proud of Ms. Lambert for being accountable for her actions and setting a sportsmanlike example for others who let their emotions get the better of them.
11/19/09
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But at the end of the day, the clips you are showing just demonstrate that these men should be punished for the acts on the field. And so should Ms. Lambert.
11/19/09
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11/18/09
Forget the ponytail pull, which yeah, was insane and not something that would have to be restricted to women's soccer- she flat out pulls an opposing player's face to her by her hair and then punches her in the face in mid air.
I don't care about her punching the girl in the back. BYU gave her a shot to the ribs and she punched her back which was out of line but not ESPN or noteworthy.
I don't for a second chalk this up to sexism any more than I would chalk Serena's outburst being given attention because she is black. Lambert needs to just own up. When you act like a nut like Zidane, you need to accept you are going to be all over the internet and ESPN.
11/18/09
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11/19/09
Ever heard of Martin Taylor? Abou Diaby? Both of those players severely injured (read:broken bones) other players in a very intentional manner and were never villanized like Elizabeth Lambert was.
11/19/09
What? Im sure you watch Match of the Day and listen to Five Live. Players who engage in dangerous play/elbowing/late tackles etc are called out by the pundits on there, week in, week out. What about Ballack elbowing Evra? Or Joey Barton going in for the stupid late tackle against Xabi Alonso? (These are just two I can remember off the top of my head). To say they suffer no backlash is untrue.
(I don't mean to single out your comments, but I just had to reply again...)
11/19/09
Actually, three years ago he would have done it. Nowadays he would probably go after the ref with the knife.
I used to really dislike him as a player, but now that's he's getting older, and the end of his career is in sight, he's starting to get kind of desperate and I am kind of enjoying him now that he's bringing the crazy. I'm pretty sure that if Germany doesn't win the World Cup next year, he is going to totally snap. I don't know what he will do, but, you better watch your back, Metze.
11/19/09
(Don't worry, I don't feel singled out. This is something I feel VERY strongly about as a football fan and a women and a former player who has engaged in the same behaviors Elizabeth has. I've been all over this thread.)
11/19/09
Poor Ballack, he's a busy little midfielder bee, but damn, if any player is a jinx, it's him.
11/19/09
But if we're talking about how the players have been treated within their own sport, well, I'd say their punishment has been pretty equal. Lambert gets an indefinite ban for several incidents during that match. And, for example, Adebayor gets a three-match ban for stomping on van Persie's face. And a three-match ban in a multi-million-pound league in which teams are under pressure every single week isn't a light punishment, by any means.
11/20/09
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11/20/09
So the game starts, and about 20 minutes in, Materazzi jostles with a player, knocks him over. The guy gets up and - I kid you not - headbutts Materazzi in the chin! The whole crowd started booing and saying "Zidane due (Zidane the 2nd)!" Of course, being Inter fans, Materazzi somehow was the good guy. Ah, the blind belief of a club supporter.
#tips
11/18/09
11/18/09
However - what she did was not simple aggressive behavior. She committed multiple fouls and engaged in dangerous play that would even get you a red card in RUGBY (and I fuckin play rugby - tight 5, holla). What she did stepped beyond "aggressive behavior" and into unsportsmanlike conduct and dangerous play.
11/18/09
11/18/09
11/18/09
The males players may not pull ponytails but they are effin aggressive, just as much as Elizabeth if not more so.
So please, the criticism borders on sexism
11/18/09
I know people who play high-level soccer - even they were appalled.
11/18/09
11/18/09
This is just poor (very poor) sportsmanship, there are no excuses. The best way to defeat a rival is playing without fouls, pure and simple.
11/18/09
Her behavior was glaringly bad. This wasn't aggressive play - this was dangerous and out of line play.
I should know, I acquired enough cards in my day to open a freaking Hallmark store.
11/18/09
Lambert wasn't just aggressive, she was dangerous. She didn't just punch one player in the back, and then yank another by the hair violently to the ground (that's happened to me before, and it can result in a concussion by the way).
She was violent throughout the entire game. She took players out at the knees, tripped others, and slid into defenseless players, not involved in the play. She could have seriously injured these women and ended their college careers (scholarships) and future sport goals.
Men and women should be banned for this type of behavior.
11/18/09
She does have a point about the gender difference, though. UNM's football coach, who has allegedly sexually harassed several female employees and then tried to beat the crap out of his own assistant coach, and has gotten what is essentially some time in the naughty chair and a slap on the wrist. It's disgusting.
11/18/09
Plus, I didn't see ESPN do a montage of all of Zinedine Zidane's aggressive play after he headbutted Marco Materazzi in the World Cup, and trust me, Zidane is a hell of an aggressive player.
11/18/09
I don't watch ESPN everyday, but I vividly remember them doing long segments on Zidane. And rightfully so. The behavior is inexcusable.
11/19/09
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Having said that, the "challenge" where she tripped the player just outside the box? It was so poor it was ridiculous. And the one where she punched the girl in the face? Plain dirty.
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11/16/09
I liked this article a lot.
Just don't read the comments...but the article is pretty awesome. #elizabethlambertdatingad
11/16/09
Er, no it's not. Not to mix my sporting metaphors or anything, but to play like that is just not cricket. FFS- that shit is dangerous, not to mention (obviously) verboten; she should have been pulled up on all of those infractions. Dirty plays like those are an insult to the Beautiful Game. #elizabethlambertdatingad
11/06/09
I can't believe Elizabeth Lambert wasn't thrown off the field and out of the game sooner. Not necessarily for What she did, but for the officiating that must have turned huge blind eyes to the game at hand to miss such blatant fouls.
Players talk, ESPECIALLY women. And as a referee, you can tell the exaggerations from the truth. So what happened here?!?
Alright, I admit, at first I was scared the world was headed on a terror against girls who play hard. But that girl did Not head out on to the pitch against BYU without some prior hair-pulling, come-from-behind-tackling and cleating experience. Lambert knew exactly what she was doing, and she's only apologetic she got caught.
All she did was retaliate, and, sure, it was a little more than what the opponent dished out, but that's what retaliation's all about. Lambert was continually trying to get the upper hand, or even force her opponent into exacting her own vengeance, then get caught by the ref. Instead, she got caught. It's a risk you take, and it sucks for her.
So I suppose I'm actually a little sad for her that she got suspended, because those BYU girls weren't saints either, but how many of them will be suspended for their own unsporting behavior? #forthoodmassacre
11/06/09
If the Military Industrial Complex is such a dominant force in this country, why does it care so little for the human beings that carry out it's missions? #forthoodmassacre
11/06/09
"Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers."
--George Carlin #forthoodmassacre
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