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Iran Denounces Scholarship For Iranian Students
Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
The Stoning Of Soraya M. Gives Voice To The Silent Women Of Iran
Her Finger Does The Talking
Iranian Graffiti
Sarah Palin As VP, And Other Visions Of Dystopic Futures
Stop Worrying About Obama Losing Already

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Susan B.
11/11/09

In reply to Iran Denounces Scholarship For Iranian Students
Even if her death was orchestrated by the opposition...isn't it still sad? Shouldn't they at least be saying, "Oh yes, our evil enemies killed her, let's memorialize her!"

But then they wouldn't allow her a proper burial, so I guess I should stop making sense. #iran
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rd2uk
11/11/09

In reply to Iran Denounces Scholarship For Iranian Students
While i completely disagree with the claim that Nedas death was orchestrated by the opposition, and do not intend to discount her death in any way, I have to agree that naming a scholarship after her does, in fact, undermine Oxford credibility. I think, as an academic institution, Oxford should not be naming internal endowments after political figures (which, unfortunately, the circumstances of Neda's death have made her). It would be a different story if the fund was provided by external donors etc, but as this is an internal institutional scholarship, it should not betray such obvious political leanings. If for no other reason, then because it will make it that much harder for students from Iran to attend/return after attending this very prestigious university.

Of course, this is just my opinion, but I say this as an academic as the other 'big university' in England. I think most academics here agree that our goal is to welcome and educate students from throughout the ethnic/racial/economic/political etc spectrum..and taking a atrong political stance as an institution makes that difficult to do.
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Edited by rd2uk at 11/11/09 9:41 AM rd2uk was starred rd2uk was unstarred

DexterHaven
11/11/09

@rd2uk: I see your point, but I think it's also hard to overlook the ideological history of much of Oxbridge's financing/endowments etc. Look at the Rhodes scholarship for a good example. Or the Said business school. And according to the story the donations were from external donors for this purpose. #iran
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greatsheelephant
11/11/09

@rd2uk: I agree with you and the comments on the Times piece show why. While I very much support the opposition in Iran, the fact that I would feel outraged if a similar scholarship was set up to commemorate something I didn't support but others do makes me think that this type of politicisation is wrong.It might be different if Neda Soltan was a Oxford alumnus but I don't see any connection there. I'm also a little worried whether the recipient of the award will suffer if she returns to Iran. By the way, the article suggests that the fund is provided by external donors.
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Alohamaid
11/11/09

@rd2uk: I'm an Oxie and I totally support the creation of the scholarship. Here's why I don't think Neda is a political figure that's problematic: IMO she's not partisan. She has become a symbol of oppression not necessarily any political group, like the infamous tank man. My only critique of the scholarship is that its a bit soon. #iran
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rd2uk
11/11/09

@DexterHaven: agree with you that we at oxbridge have a history of attaching ourselves to ideaologies that we 'like' but in the recent past (past 2 decades, really) theres been a concerted effort to remove the Uni itself from any political stance - which is why I think this is problematic. With reference to the donations being external, you are absolutely that the money comes from external sources, but it is awarded by the university and not by an external body, therefore aligning it to the Uni directly. It just seems like an unnecessary political statement that is just really divisive - which is the Uni (IMO) has no business being. #iran
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DexterHaven
11/11/09

@rd2uk: I suppose my view is that if the university had rejected this endowment that in itself would have constituted a political statement, given that it has been quite willing to take money from eg Said (pretty recently too, in 2001). #iran
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rd2uk
11/11/09

@DexterHaven: thats true, but I gott say, we get hundreds of proposals for small endowments (4000pounds over 2 yrs is a small amount for grad work for an intl student as tuition itself is about 10,000 a yr), that we dont agree to take on as internal grants but direct our students to as external grants. I mean, Im glad the someone gets extra help while in school, but dont like academia getting ties to politics so blatantly, its murky waters. #iran
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Valois
11/11/09

@rd2uk: This may be a small point to make, but this is not University funding. As far as I understand it, it's a scholarship through Queens College, with money put up by 2 anonymous donors (most likely, former students of the College). You also have to be a member of the College to qualify for the award - it's not available to the full spectrum of philosophy students across the Uni. Of course there are political overtones to this (and please don't think that I purposefully understate them) - but as far as Oxford credibility goes...well, from firsthand experience I can say that it is nigh on impossible for an international student to afford a graduate degree at Oxford. You pay your £11,000+ in fees alone - and that doesn't cover how you will make rent, feed yourself, cover research expenses, or get home to see your family. Oxford talks alot about 'access' - but the truth of the matter is that you'd better be rich if you're foreign (and especially if you're over the age of 25). As the Provost mentioned, Oxford is losing out on the best graduate candidates, in part, because the cost of attending is simply too much for most people. This certainly relates to the University's 'credibility', doesn't it? It also relates to being able to take in the students who deserve to be there. #iran
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Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred)
11/11/09

@Valois: Oxbridge may be expensive for foreign students, but there are a lot of countries where it's a damn sight worse. I really wanted to study Palaentology originally, but it isn't offered at most UK unis, and the cost of American ones, especially Ivy Leage, negated that as an option for me.

Also, I don't know about Oxford, but at Cambridge there is a policy that once someone has been offered a place at the university, they should not have to drop out for financial reasons. Especially at the larger colleges, the numbers of grants etc available are staggering. #iran
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Valois
11/11/09

@Glitterbug (likes life shaken, not stirred): I knew I should have gone to Cambridge! :) I don't want to get too off-topic, but I will say that I don't think Oxford will kick you out if you can't pay. But they WILL charge you penal interest. And they WILL let you starve in the meantime - especially now that hardship is centralised. #iran
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NefariousNewt
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
Death is the hallmark of revolution. Ask those who died at Lexington and Concord. Of course, in this day and age, where information is easily manipulated, there is the haunting idea that it could have been staged or faked. But all you have to do is watch it once to know, viscerally, that it is not. And she will not be the last to die.

In a way, the current Iranian theocracy is now being hoist upon their own petard. They are uncomfortable in the spotlight and are lashing out at the West, because that is easier than admitting their own mistakes.

This may be the turning point, but don't believe there won't be more blood running in the streets before this revolution is over, no matter the outcome.
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Grim Reaper of the Forest
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
I stayed at a B&B this weekend that was run by an Iranian woman and we had some really interesting conversations about the situation over there. In a weird way it reminded me of Bush in the U.S. A lot of people abroad saw him as someone who stole the election and was uniformly stupid and evil, and had trouble understand how/why a good portion of the U.S. population voted for him. Not to discount the exponentially greater level of vote-rigging and protest there.

In her view, the huge youth population and gradual opening of debate have opened up the floodgates and the Guardian Council can't adapt as quickly as necessary to the large amounts of change that the people want.
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Our Lady of the Massacre
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
The thing hat bugs me most about the situation is how most Americans seem really disinterested or ambivalent about caring. Did Bush & Co. really do that good a job at poisoning our minds against the Iranian people? It's their GOVERNMENT that's the problem, not the people. The people are striking out against the government, therefore we Americans should have no problem supporting them! I agree that Obama needs to remain officially neutral for now, but the rest of us are free to show our support.
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kaiwhakamarie
06/22/09

@Our Lady of the Massacre: I posted a link on Facebook yesterday about Iran and a friend of mine, who just returned from active duty in Afghanistan, commented with, 'Who the hell cares about them, they're allied with North Korea. Blow them all up, it'll do the world good'. I was shocked. I shouldn't have been shocked, but I was.

Needless to say several of my other friends had plenty to say to him, but even after he'd had his ass handed to him and I'd defriended him, I was still very upset by his comments. I mean, I know this kind of ignorance exists, I see it everyday. I know that kind of hatred and prejudice exists. But to be openly confronted with it is another matter. I mean, does this guy really think that the Iranian people have anything to do with what their government does? That they automatically share the same opinions? Even the most average of bears would realize that the people are being completely OPPRESSED by their government - why else would they be protesting and being killed over there for speaking out? I think what disturbed me most was that this guy obviously hadn't even thought of that at all. He was too busy spewing hatred.
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Laulau
06/22/09

@Our Lady of the Massacre: Agreed. That sentiment reminds me of the comment in the last couple of weeks, to the effect of "let's just nuke North Korea already". Hello? Oppressive regimes aren't just potentially dangerous to outsiders - though they are - they are ACTUALLY dangerous to the people stuck within them. As much as I'm kind of shocked by the light media coverage here in the U.S., at least in this case it seems to be pointing to the distinction between a political regime and the people who live under it.
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LamontPelias
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
For people who think this is exploitation or shock value, remember what Emmit Till's mother said about why she asked for an open casket funeral:

"I wanted the world to see what they did to my baby."

For a similar principle, there is the publication of Anne Frank's diary. Nobody learned anything new from either case - anyone who cared could see that blacks were being treated as inferior human beings in the supposed Land of the Free and that the Holocaust was a blight on our history from which we had shamefully looked away - but putting a face to these tragedies made them all the more powerful.

I have not watched the video and I don't think I will, because the still image was enough. But I will defend the right of anyone to air them. Remember, the media used the same argument about exploitation and bloodlust to argue against showing the cost in bodies and blood of our strikes on Iraq.
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kaiwhakamarie
06/22/09

@LamontPelias: Exactly. Not only that, but I think with the people of Iran going to such lengths to get videos like this to the outside world, the least we can do is watch a few to see what they are going through. They want us to know about it.
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Laulau
06/22/09

@LamontPelias: For better or worse, we're a visual species. Studies have shown that a picture of a single victim elicits more sympathy than an article describing the extent of a wider problem, and even than a combination of the picture and article. Whatever helps us be better people, I am for it.
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Samanthrax
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
As much as I would like to believe that people are watching it to commiserate with the people of Iran, I think it's disturbing that some people need to see a young woman dying to be able to do so. In other words, I think many people are watching it purely for shock value at this point. That makes me sad.
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SarahMC
06/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I agree with you. Neda is not the first person to have died in this conflict, nor will she be the last. I am a bit befuddled by it all. Yesterday everyone was saying "you MUST watch this!" (on Jez). I did, and it didn't affect me much at all. At this point it strikes me as almost pornographic.
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Eleanor Ramilly
06/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic: I don't think it's disturbing. I've been following this all weekend and it wasn't until I forced myself to watch the video that I felt I understood what was happening in the slightest manner.

I'm a very squeamish person. I can't watch people get hurt, I will never, for the life of me, understand the Faces of Death videos.. even most realistic horror movies are too much for me. I watched the video so I could relate on a physical and emotional level to what these people are actually going through. I agree with a commenter above that everyone should watch it.
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AmericanSplendor
06/22/09

@Samanthrax is Sarcastic:

It was the first 10 seconds or so that matter, not the blood. She was just so scared. I felt anger/frustration/anxiety before, but now I feel it that much more acutely.
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Samanthrax
06/22/09

@Eleanor Ramilly: @AmericanSplendor: To be blunt, I'm not really talking about you guys- "you guys" being the readers and commenters of this site. I don't think your average bear is pressing play to gain some understanding, and if you think they are- well, I guess you have a better opinion of the general populace than I do.
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chattanooga
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
They finally showed the entire video unedited on CNN last night. I think it's important that everybody watches it, because in the US we tend to be disconnected on an emotional level to events that take place outside this country. Her death has brought people all over the world together.
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AthertonMerriweather
06/22/09

@chattanooga: Unfortunately, the majority of Americans don't watch CNN or any other news network while eating dinner or for primetime viewing. I would even go so far as to say that many Americans barely aware of what's really going on in Iran right now.
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Trulymadlyme
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
The mourning cycle could continue in perpetuity. My main concern is whether the Shah is going to just up and ban all uses of communication devices in public period. No cameras. No phones. No one witnessing the senseless death of so many. It's their move now. I wonder what they'll do.
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stoprobbers
06/22/09

@Trulymadlyme: Are you kidding? That kind of ban would start a revolution. If the Ayatollah has any interest in keeping the people of Iran from physically storming his gates, he won't even try that.

He knows, all the people in power know, that you can only limit people so much. The question is whether they're crazy enough to invite the revolution.
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Trulymadlyme
06/22/09

@stoprobbers: My mistake on confusing the Shah with Ayatollah. I need coffee and a time machine to return me back from 1978.
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angryblackgurl
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
I can't watch this video, just the frozen still was enough to make me shudder. Why is the world so UGLY??
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mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
Sky News appears to be questioning the video's authenticity. I was surprised by the tome they were taking as it was odds with all other reporting of Neda's death.
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formergr
06/22/09

@mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it: I honestly don't see how that could have been faked.

I've watched a couple of people die or come very close to it in my job as an EMT (but nothing violent or gruesome thank goodness), and that fading/vacant look in her eyes is not something you can fake. Nor the copious blood that pours from her nose and mouth at the end.

Or are they saying it is a real video of a woman dying, but isn't from the current situation in Iran??
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fuzzylizardkitten
06/22/09

@mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it: Ugh, it seems that there's always someone that jumps into the "questionable" boat and say things like this might be/are fake. It reminds me of videos of violence in China/Tibet, and how the government denies the coverage is even real.
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mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
06/22/09

@formergr: It's led on their main page with the heading: Neda - A Victim, A Symbol, Or a Hoax? Which seems more than a little leading.

It continues by saying there are questions surrounding her identity. They discount the validity of the tape by saying that she was first identified as a 16 year old girl. They fail to address the fact that due to a blanket ban of foreign reporting such information is bound to be slowed down. What I don't understand is why that post is still up now that there solid information regarding her identity.

Plus the comments are appalling Lets bombard the site jezebelles.

[news.sky.com]
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mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
06/22/09

@fuzzylizardkitten: Sky News is basically a tabloid news station so I shouldn't expect anything else. The article included this response.

"Can anyone prove she actually died? - I've seem more convincing death scenes on CSI
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formergr
06/22/09

@mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it: Sounds like that person has seen *too many* deaths on CSI, and doesn't realize that real life tends to be a bit different than crime serials. Duh! (directed on the article commenter, not you of course).
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BlondeGoddess
06/22/09

@mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it: Un-be-lieve-able.

I guess people find it hard to believe that this is actually happening, to real people, who really die when they get hit by bullets.
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LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues
06/22/09

In reply to Will Neda Agha-Soltan's Death Tip Iran Into "Revolution"?
By the way, that video- it is upsetting to watch. Very, very upsetting. It has value, but please- don't watch it if you don't want to see an actual human being die rather gruesomely.

/PSA
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cuteasabutton
06/22/09

@LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues: I haven't watched it. I can't bring myself to do it and I don't want to. I've read the story and I understand and I want to show respect for this woman who has died.
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Sputnik_Sweetheart
06/22/09

@LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues: I didn't dare watch it. Just the screen grab was enough to give me nightmares.
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GoldenRatioφ (aka -girl11)
06/22/09

@LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues: It was a little strange to see it on CNN yesterday. I'd already played the first 3 seconds on Jezebel before I couldn't watch, but when it made its way to tv it was harder to look away despite their repeated warnings. I saw it after I watched a Chinese gangster movie, and I was shocked by how much the video upset/moved me. We talk about being immune to scenes of death and violence because our culture glorifies violence in movies and on tv, but there is no comparison, between anything I've seen before, and the gruesome, untimely death of an innocent young woman.
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dianersb was bit by a zombie
06/22/09

@LindsayC: doctoral hilarity ensues: Yeah, I can't watch it. The photos, other videos and stories coming out of Iran are enough to give me nightmares. I can't bring myself to watch someone die.
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RStewie
06/18/09

In reply to The Stoning Of Soraya M. Gives Voice To The Silent Women Of Iran
I will have to watch this!! The oppression of women is so downplayed in the West, for the most part. Stories like this are treated like some far-away tale, but these are real women, who are killed, burned, abused, and mistreated every day in their homelands.
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PicosPardos
06/18/09

@RStewie:

Women are killed, burned, abused, raped and mistreated everywhere.
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skahammer
06/18/09

@PicosPardos: As are men.
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CurtCole
06/17/09

In reply to The Stoning Of Soraya M. Gives Voice To The Silent Women Of Iran
I hope this comes to Dallas!
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Bgirl_Hamster
06/17/09

In reply to The Stoning Of Soraya M. Gives Voice To The Silent Women Of Iran
Thank you, Katy, for taking the time to post this.

While I often question my support for the death penalty, I do know this: stoning should NOT be the punishment for adultery. Moral shaming? Okay. Guilt? Yep. Being beaten to death by tiny rocks? WTF?
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