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New York, 2:36 AM
Fri Dec 4
68 posts in the last 24 hours
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11/16/09
11/16/09
Last year I bought the first book for my little sister (along with Weetzie Bat and the first Georgia Nicholson book), and have repeatedly talked to her about relationships within the text, and what she does and doesn't like about the books, the characters, and the plots. I'm not going to be a hard-ass on her for what she likes. She's a smart kid and she understands the line between "romantic" and "creepster" pretty well. #twilight
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Yet, as much as I hate to admit it, I still like the books. They're nice for when you don't want to think...that, and my thirteen year old mind loved the idea of being with a vampire. Except I loved (and still love) Jasper. That being said, I am pissed at the movies for fucking him up. D:
Also, about Stephenie's writing...if you want to see bad writing, take a glance at the House of Night series by P.C and Kristen Cast...I have one word for those books (and those of you who have dared to pick one up will know what I'm talking about): Bullpoopie. #twilight
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To me, it sounds kind of like the equivalent of, "Man I hope my kid never watches Beauty and the Beast. That Beast has some serious rage issues." #twilight
11/17/09
The asshole part never became a part of what I liked in real people, because of course he's an asshole, he's a Beast who has to live in a castle full of talking furniture because the rest of society wants to kill him because of how he looks. And of course Edward is creepy because he's a vampire who can read everyone's thoughts and knows that the other vampires want to eat Bella. If you're not a Beast or a vampire you don't have any reason to be an asshole or a creep. #twilight
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...I don't have any issue with the fandom itself.
Stories connect differently to different people. Clearly something about this resonates with a lot of women of different ages. My personal opinion is because it's overwrought, adolescent, romance...the girl gets to be special, the boys get to be ogled, and it keeps up the tension by not sexually consummating until what, the last book? It's a relatively safe fantasy with the promise of undying love and eternal youth and life. Themes that people have glommed onto for as long as stories have been told, I'd imagine.
I think there are problems with it, mostly in the perpetuating troubling cultural gender issues arena. And the fact that it's difficult to have an analytical discussion about it without someone freaking out that you dared critique it, or someone else just deciding it doesn't matter enough to look at. Something that's this significant a pop culture phenomenon seems important to me, though.
I do not, by the way, have anything against the literary version of brain candy. Sometimes we just want something that makes us feel nostalgic. And the promise of adolescent romance and angst is pretty powerful stuff.
I just hope it leads to better fare. You can still have all those things and actually get solid social critique in, too. #twilight
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I really have the hardest time responding to this without out right saying the writing sucks and then sounding like a book snob. However, I am a book snob, so maybe I should start being a little bit more forthright with that fact. #twilight
11/16/09
It's at the point where Twilight fans at work refuse to discuss Twilight in front of me because I just can't stop myself and they don't want to hear their bible being trashed. #twilight
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I was obsessed w/vampires many moons ago as a teenage girl and, basically, and hugely disappointed that I didn't write it... #twilight
11/17/09
I think where it succeeds is appealing to overwrought adolescent emotions. But I'd rather watch Buffy. :} #twilight
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Also, at least they're reading? #twilight
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And the thing is, we don't really know what else they went to. This past year was packed, and this coming year has already mostly sold out 4 day tickets. It's November.
And considering how non-girl friendly the comics industry in particular has presented itself to be for literally decades, I'm not surprised. Even though lots of women work in the industry creatively, actively, and visibly...the industry still acts like a boys club when it suits it, and gets bent out of shape whenever something new drops in.
Comicon has evolved. Either we accept that and move on, or stew in our nerd rage. I really don't see the point.
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Considering comic book sales compared to Twilight book/movie/merch sales, I'd think you'd want to find ways to get them in. To appeal to them. They're buying a ton more Twilight stuff than anyone is buying comics. #twilight
11/16/09
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I don't know what numbers of them actually visited the rest of the Con, and I don't think anyone else does either. But there wasn't much effort made to entice them, and the attitude that "you can't sell comics to a teenage girl who only wants to make out with an ice cube" is pretty dismissive. They're fans of a genre story. There's a lot of room for crossover there if anyone bothered to try it. Lots of teenage girls like Manga, for instance. And I can see plenty of crossover with Twilight and Shoujo.
And frankly, "the average Twilight fan" appears to be teenage girls, tween girls, and adult women. That's actually a pretty broad fandom in terms of interests and experiences and buying power. They're also the demographics comics as an industry has the most trouble appealing to outside of very specific creators.
My point is that they COULD be comics fans, if anyone bothered to view them as something more than annoying. If you're only selling to people who already like something (ie. comics as a storytelling medium) then you're limiting your audience needlessly.
The question should be: How do we get the Twilight fans to check out the rest of Comicon and maybe buy these books?
Not: When are they going to go away, they're wounding my comic geek sensibilities with their fandom? #twilight
11/16/09
To be quite honest though, the fangirls seemed more upset then the fanboys about comic con. I think it's a feeling of "We're different. Twilight has gone mainstream but we aren't and this is our space, are you are in it" and also "We have to prove our selves enough. We have to prove that we are just as dedicated and worthy as male geeks and you're holding us back" not that it's right but that sentiment does exist.
11/16/09
Most fangirls in comics are 1. used to marginalization 2. supportive of fandoms in whatever form and 3. too busy being actively engaged in the industry to complain about Twilight.
I just find it hilarious that people would rail about the "obsessiveness" of Twilight fans when there's barely a fandom out there that doesn't have a rabid element. There's something really threatening about the audience for this by some elements of the status quo. #twilight
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I suspect a lot of the issues with Twilight is the quality of the books, rather than the fans. There's not a fangirl alive who hasn't read something truly shitty and enjoyed it, so, to my mind, those that you've encountered doth protest too much. Especially since a lot of comics fangirls are into fanfic or slashfic.
And really, you can't resent Twilight fans for being more "mainstream" than comics fangirls, because it's a fandom of girls. They aren't marginalized within their own fandom. They're just dismissed by other fandoms.
I get that other fangirls would like to get treated more seriously, and not have to deal with the screaming teen fan stereotype. But that was there before this anyway. Girl fandoms are not widely respected no matter what the object of obsession is. They're treated as either "crazy" or too marginal to pay attention to. #twilight
11/16/09
"I don't always like the way Star Wars fans get into heated arguments about Jar Jar."
We'll have to agree to disagree here however because I find it absolutely hilarious. #twilight
11/16/09
The question of 'how do we get the twilight fans to go to other parts of the con' isn't fully valid. The con organizers book twilight related things all day, and because of the sheer number of twilight fans there, most of these people send their entire day waiting in line to get into a panel or (as discussed earlier) camping a panel. You can't even show a property to someone who isn't curiously wandering the con floor.
And since there is a finite number of passes to comic con, if 1/3 of those are a fandom of people who isn't even visiting the floor, then that's 1/3 less people to a presumably sold-out show who I can talk with. Does that mean no one was there at the comics end of the con? My goodness, no. It's a massive event.
I talked to a number of twihards at the con, and none of them were rude or 'wounded my comic geek sensibilities' (thx for being mildly insulting) they're simply there for Twilight stuff. Comic Con is expensive and I can't blame them for showing up to spend their money only on the thing they're totally crazy about.
That thing just happens to not be comics. : )
I'm sorry you took any of my comments as dismissive of a fandom. #twilight
11/16/09
But he's also the dad of a little girl who's into Twilight, and seeing people treat his daughter like she's less than them pissed him off. #twilight
11/16/09
Oh, Jar Jar. Kids love him. Some of us wonder if he's really just the alien version of a minstrel show...etc. I laugh as well, until the upteenth time you have to sit through one. And then it's like, come on folks, let's just pretend those prequels were a bad dream. #twilight
11/16/09
I edit comics, I'm well aware of having to stay ahead of that sort of thing. Vampires are perennials, those kinds of stories (like zombies, and a lot of horror) tend to appeal to the same folks. But they're not the only thing. Twilight is as much teen angst/romance as it is vampire. And there are tons of comics that fit that description, vampires or not.
As far as the panels go, that's a Con organization problem. Not a fan problem. And panel camping has been an issue for years, it's not new to Twilight. So having to be online all day is true of nearly any popular fandom that's there. I know people who had to wait all day to go to a panel on The Office last year. So unless you're into something really obscure, chances are you're stuck. Scheduling, overbooked rooms, and lines, are just part of the routine of Comicon. So while I get the annoyance from some, it's misdirected. Twilights not responsible for any of that. And this last year, I think most everything was scheduled on one day. So if those fans were really only interested in Twilight, then they likely only bought one day passes. So unless all 4 days of Comicon had/are having big Twilight events, that doesn't explain why those ticks, and the ones for the Wed. preview night, are already sold out, unless some of those folks are seeing other things. And considering the swing of Comicon being a pop culture convention, rather than comics at this point, that's been true for awhile.
Again, Comicon has been catering to things other than comics for way longer than Twilight got involved. Maybe people minded less when there was more presumed crossover, but Twilight isn't the first non-comics event. Most of the con isn't about comics anymore, right or wrong.
I was making a statement about the attitude being presented about this fandom, which does smack of comic geek sensibility wounding. I didn't say you said that, I posed that one question is more helpful than the other. Although I'm not sure how else I should read the comment that the fans just want to make out with an ice cube. Or the following statement about hoping they'd just go away. Instead of, say, figuring out ways to get even a fraction of that buying power into comics.
Look, I'm not a Twilight fan. I couldn't possibly care less about the books themselves. But the fans of Twilight are precisely the elusive fandom comics has been failing to reach for a long time now, especially in those numbers. It seems shortsighted to me to dismiss those fans, or assume they couldn't get into something else that actually interested them. I'm not saying they necessarily will, either. But since there are...what...4+ books to make into films? We might get to find out. #twilight
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Thanks everyone for your suggestions! #twilight
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I guess what bothers me is that this is the same kind of fantasy that has been getting women involved with potentially dangerous men for ages (you know, the guy who loves you so much, and wants to be with you all the time, and gets angry at you and/or in the faces of other men who look at you, because you're everything to him, and he'd die without you...) It's a story that seems to advocate dependence and a "stand by your man" mind-set. I don't like that these books portray this kind of relationship as the ideal to young girls, and that they are eating it up in a frenzy. And I'm disappointed that so many mature women appear to be in a frenzy, too. Don't we want more than a dreamy guy who'll protect us? Don't we want to be able to protect ourselves, or better yet live in a world where women don't need so damn much protection? Don't we want to advocate the idea that an average women can elevate herself or be someone of note through more than just a relationship with a man?
I think it's possible to enjoy the book on a guilty pleasure level. But it's the degree of emotional investment some women and girls are making in this fantasy that is a little unsettling. #twilight
11/16/09
Twilight sex results in nothing but creepiness. #twilight
11/16/09
I'd say it's a small price to pay for being, like, totally HAWT. #twilight
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Yeah. Soooo not going there. #twilight
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