Jezebel 
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New York, 3:13 PM
Thu Dec 3
69 posts in the last 24 hours
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03/20/09
JUSTICE FAIL.
03/20/09
And I know for sure they don't sit well with some feminists on here (or so I've been forcibly informed).
03/20/09
It is really disheartening to see some of the reactions, but even though it's Jezebel, it's the internet, so I'm not exactly shocked to see the worst in people come out.
03/20/09
I just hope he gets a case of flesh-eating bacteria, his dick gets all necrotic, and anesthetics and painkillers fail to work. I hope that he gets "locked in" his own brain, never to escape the pain of the lesions and his own deranged thoughts.
03/20/09
[en.wikipedia.org]
03/20/09
I totally applaud a justice system that truly aims to rehabilitate rather than just punish (and can see how bonding with animals could lead to compassion for people), but...Jesus.
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Perhaps I should just walk from these threads, but I find it honestly so very disheartening to see people veering from my definition of reasonable reactions so wildly.
03/20/09
Mentally ill people range from good to bad, just like people without mental illness.
03/20/09
No one wants to admit that there are probably some 'good' traits within Fritzl, but it's virtually undeniable in my book. No one is born evil.
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03/20/09
@SarahMC: A comment such as "He is evil and should rot in a hole" suggests that an individual is completely evil. I don't believe there is such a thing as a "good" or "bad" person, only individual people. And people sometimes make deplorable or "evil" actions, and many times, the most deplorable of actions are perpetrated by individuals with a history of mental illness. That does not mean they are Satan, and vilifying someone to that point does the justice system a massive disservice.
Even individuals who commit the most heinous crimes have people who care about them, and people they care about. It's a tough pill to swallow, but the reality exists nonetheless.
03/20/09
What admitting his illness does allow is a discourse that means we can learn from his actions. As I said above, Fritzl is an extreme case study. Anything that can be learned from him, his life and his mental state can be used to prevent things of this nature recurring.
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03/20/09
Antisocial personality disorder is in the DSM, and sociopathy is generally considered to be the same thing as ASPD. So yes, it is considered a mental illness by medical professionals. However, many criminals do have ASPD, and no one is saying it excuses them from criminal behavior. So just because someone might consider sociopathy to be a mental illness, and might have compassion for the person, yet not for the crimes, does not mean they don't think they shouldn't be isolated so that the community is safe. There is a big difference between punishing someone in a retributive manner, and punishing someone so as to isolate them from society to protect it.
When you are dealing with someone who has a mental illness (and I don't know what Fritzl's is), it is pretty barbaric to punish them in a retributive, throw his evil ass into a whole to rot manner, and a lot more palatable to simply isolate him from society so he can't re-offend. Don't forget, even if Fritzl was charged with these crimes at 40, he could be held indefinitely until he was deemed "rehabilitated." It's not necessarily a policy that will always be "fairer" to those with mental illness, since they can and do sometimes find themselves locked up for longer than a sane person would have been had he or she committed the same crime.
03/20/09
"There's a biological and environmental factor that leads to how every one of us behaves, all the time. I do believe that mental illness exists. However, I also believe that incredibly ordinary people are capable of incredible cruelty."
After following this case since it emerged, I must say that I am highly disappointed in his punishment- OF COURSE, all mentally ill people aren't inherently evil, and if it could be determined (which I don't think enough time was spent on cross examination or psycho analysis of him to have possibly determined this) that he was severely mentally ill, he should definitely not be punished barbarically.
However, I am of the opinion that there are certain crimes that one could commit that one just can't simply be rehabilitated from(see clockwork orange), especially if one is found to be of sound mind, and acting only on selfish desire to indulge one's own capacity for incredible cruelty(this condition I personally do not think should be classified as a mental illness that one puts one into that "excusable" territory)- rape in general, (and of one's own daughter, none the less- AND FOR 24 YEARS NONE THE LESS) is one of them.
That being said, I cannot stomach the idea of punishing him in a manner "more palatable to simply isolate him from society so he can't re-offend" -it seems bizarre, considering palatable is nowhere in my vocabulary when I consider how his daughter must have felt all those years, now, and probably will for the rest of her life.
Although it won't ever happen, I would have no problem living in a world where offenses such as his were punished more barbarically. (and let's not split hairs here- no I'm not saying ay ole thing should get your dick chopped off- just things specifically having to do with heinous crimes on a large scale- and yes I know that's sort of relative to whom-ever deems things heinous and large scale) I think that more horrific punishment might just prove to be a deterrent to those who find themselves capable of such crimes, be they simply capable of great cruelty. And if believing that make me, therefore, cruel, or seemingly mentally ill myself, then I am perfectly OK with that.
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03/20/09
I'm surprised they're even considering rehab. His crimes are so horrible that he deserves life imprisonment as some form of attonement.
The U.S penal system has many flaws, but I do think it a good thing that life without parole is regularly given. Some people do not deserve their freedom.
In the U.K, people are released from prison in a horrifically short space of time. Especially considering the fondness judges have for only convicting for manslaughter those who murder their wives and/or children .
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03/20/09
That pretty much sums up my feelings.
03/20/09
And my heart bleeds for her.
A lot.
But a lot of me does not buy that the wife knew nothing. I mean, maybe she didn't. Maybe she didn't want to know...I don't know...the whole thing is so complicated, but I think that she maybe had an idea...I mean, some of Elisabeth's kids appeared "mysteriously" on the doorstep, and some of those kids got to live outside the basement.
03/20/09
One might think by the same token, that a husband/father couldn't do what he did, but that turned out to not be true. It's such a staggering tragedy.
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03/20/09
On the other hand, at least the consecutive vs. concurrent debate is moot here. At 73, a 15-year sentence is equivalent to life. This man will never breathe free air again.