Does it matter? This is something Dan Shuler needs to work out in therapy, if at all. The only reason the Bastardi's need confirmation of fault is to sue someone, and really, just get on with your life. Money and vengeance won't bring your family back.
Lots of people do this when someone dies, elevate the person and denigrate themselves. Jsut leave them alone, they'll either work it out on their own or they won't. Public judgment or scrutiny will only cement this guy in his delusions. #dianeschuler
@BytheSea: "The only reason the Bastardi's need confirmation of fault is to sue someone, and really, just get on with your life. Money and vengeance won't bring your family back."
That's needlessly cold. I saw nothing in that article that indicated they were looking for a payout.
It's perfectly normal when a wrong has been done, to expect an acknowledgment that it happened.
If on the other hand someone killed your family member and their family kept going to the press about how it's not possible that they did what they did because the killer was super-mom, and she wasn't drunk even though the official autopsy shows she was LOADED, I suspect you'd be pretty livid as well. #dianeschuler
@BytheSea: They've a right to be pissed off. They're son and husband have been murdered. The person who did it got off scott free. They want to punish the person who's responsible and that person is out of reach. The only people they have left are Diane Schuler's family, who are complicit in her murder/suicide. It's not about money. It's about justice denied. #dianeschuler
@Vulcan Has No Moon: I wouldn't characterize dying in a fiery crash "getting off scott-free," but otherwise I agree with your assessment. I don't blame the Bastardis for wanting someone to blame and being even more infuriated that the other person's family wouldn't even acknowledge the pain their loved one caused. #dianeschuler
@willwriteforfood @ LadybirdRamone: "Scot-Free" is a reference to a verdict in Scottish law where someone is found "guilty without incurring any monetary penalty". In other words there was enough evidence to bring them to trial, but not enough to bring in a verdict (hung jury). In all likelihood, she is a mass murderer, but she's escaped being tried in a court of law for 6 counts of vehicular homicide. Although, burning to death or dying on impact, is probably more punishment than she'd receive from the courts for murder/suicide, (I was assuming) the Bastardi family probably feels cheated of justice since they don't get to see her tried in a court of law. #dianeschuler
@Vulcan Has No Moon: I honestly don't even think it's as far as that-- likely they are just looking for closure.
And I have a feeling that just a single statement from the Schuler family initially to the effect of, "We have no idea what happened that day, and are completely shocked by Diane's alleged role in it. We are so sorry for your loss," would have seriously mitigated a lot of their anger (but of course not their pain). #dianeschuler
@BytheSea: I'm not an attorney, but I'm pretty sure that husbands have no legal liability for torts (such as wrongful death) committed by their deceased wives. #dianeschuler
Poor woman had NO ONE to confide in obviously. That shit WILL kill you even if you don't drive the wrong way on a highway full of vodka and weed. #dianeschuler
@sybann: Actually if you read the story closely you can surmise that this woman chose not to confide in anyone. Big difference.
Obviously her parents divorce took a tremendous toll on her if she was the only one not speaking to her mother. Her brothers did. Maybe that's why she agreed to marry a man who she could mother more than be an equal partner. He views on his wife don't exactly strike a progressive cord.
The sad truth is that this woman had obviously deep problems that she kept well hidden from her close knit world. With those secrets she left behind a world of grief for others to follow. #dianeschuler
Is this idea of perfection his own creation because he doesn't want to be judged or to have people think that he (a) didn't know his wife, (b) made her unhappy or(c) didn't talk to her. Or is it that he truly thought she was perfect in every way?
Something about it makes me think it's (a), (b), or (c). That is pretty one-sided of me, but I can't help it here. #dianeschuler
@WaltzingMatilda: BTW - I don't blame him for wanting to hold on to this "perfect" vision of his wife - a lot of people have rose-colored visions of their loved ones after they've died.
His press conferences after the accident seemed so strange to me though. I feel like a press conference after a car accident is pretty rare and it just accentuated the strangeness of his protestations. #dianeschuler
@WaltzingMatilda: I think that denial is a fairly common component of co-dependency and addiction. In my experience, I've found that though an abuser may claim their addiction, an enabler may hide evidence of the addiction or deny it, in order to: a) stay in the chaos that the addiciton creates; and/or b) hide how complicit they were in the addiction. An enabler can feel soul-crushingly guilty, and mask that guilt by deflecting it to something else -- in this man's case, proving to the world that his wife was innocent (and so was he, see?!) Also, constant enabling behavior with no acknowledgement of the other co-dependent's illness makes a strong case for identifying Mr. Schuler as a likely addict himself -- his addiction, however, may have been to enabling behavior (and long preceeded this marriage). This facet of enabling behavior (that is is addictive) is a common affliction that can keep both addicts in an addiction-loop for until they both actively seek help. Unfortunately for these two, neither one was able to seek the help they each seemed to need so badly. #dianeschuler
@WaltzingMatilda: I've a feeling one or all of those is true. Many times people feel that admitting a fault on their loved one's part is somehow represents a failing on their own part for having chosen that person to be with. #dianeschuler
@BytheSea: That could be totally be true. I wonder if that is the case...
Some enabling addicts begin the behavior in childhood -- it's an attempt to regulate the uncontrollable: "If I make it easy for X to be my friend, X will never not be my friend" or "Daddy will never drink" or "Mommy will not leave" etc. etc. etc. That's more what I was thinking -- but *any* kind of previous history with this sort of denial is troubling.
I wonder what sort of grief counseling he's seeking for himself and for his son. #dianeschuler
Just because some readers might not know and it's not mentioned in the post, but in addition to the Schulers' 2 year old daughter, her three nieces aged 5, 7, and 8 were also in the car and killed. #dianeschuler
@formergr: The rest of the family are covering for her too. They all are refusing to say she's responsible for this. They're refusing to admit that perhaps they (or at least the Brother) knew she was driving under the influence when she drove off with the kids. #dianeschuler
@Vulcan Has No Moon: It blows my mind...I really wonder what the poor wife of those 3 little girls is going through.
I really, really hope family pressure isn't preventing her from venting any (completely understandable and expected) anger towards her brother's wife for killing her daughters. #dianeschuler
@Cairn: I thought that the father of the oldest niece was on the phone with her, told Diane to stay put, and was driving towards them to help get them home. But she got on the road anyway. So they are probably wrapped up in grief and possibly guilt because they didn't call in the highway patrol. #dianeschuler
i keep wondering if the wife had a secret lover who broke it off, and in her mad grief she downed the vodkas before she realized how drunk she was. and if she really never did drink much before this, that amount of alcohol would definitely send her out of control.
or else she found out her husband was screwing around, and got crazy drunk.
but even if you're very introverted, if you have substance abuse problems it's nearly impossible to keep that hidden. people pick up on it. it affects your personality one way or the other, so that you change. i keep thinking she wasn't an alcoholic; something devastated her that day and caused her to grab something to erase some great pain she was feeling. let's face it, booze is easily available almost everywhere. #dianeschuler
@msAnthrope: Her friends say that she smoked pot regularly, which seems like the only outlet in a crazily controlled life. There's no telling if she actually drank secretly as well.
I was interested in the toxicology report, which stated that she had a BA of .19, after doing 10 shots of vodka. I drink socially, and 10 shots would knock me out. Seems to point to an increased tolerance?
The whole story is just sad for everyone. #dianeschuler
@jebash: In the article it says that her friends didn't know she smoked pot -- or drank. It seems like their impressions of her, even as good friends, didn't reflect the full truth.
@msAnthrope: Recovering female addicts have commented that it's fairly easy to hide behind the role of mom or wife and use daily. Social drinkers probably wouldn't have 10 shots in 60 minutes while driving a car full of kids when feeling "down," so that signals some other mental/emotional issues. #dianeschuler
@ardentlilac: You're right - most of her friends say they had no idea, but one friend was very aware of her habits. I think she was probably living an incredibly segmented life. #dianeschuler
@jebash: But tolerance doesn't change BA, it just makes you able to function at higher BA numbers. 10 shots and a .19 BA... that just doesn't square. #dianeschuler
@msAnthrope: Since she rarely saw her husband due to their work schedules, it would be verrrry easy to put to the kids to bed, have a few drinks "to help me sleep" and be able to function in the morning. Even her social outlets seem to be focused on "mom" stuff...she wasn't going out every other week to play cards with the girls or something.
It sounds like a textbook set-up for creating a functional alcoholic to me. #dianeschuler
i'm just curious because i had a codeine/ painkiller "addiction" and not only my boyfriend, but two casual work associates at a summer job could tell immediately when i'd taken them. lots of times i believe we *think* we are acting the same, but we're not.
also, a couple of years after i ended my own codeine addiction i worked at another place where one of the guys had shoulder surgery and was given oxycontin for pain. and boy could i ever tell the days when he took it! he was mindlessly "up," talking much louder and more animated than usual.
it may be that people around just don't want to know, which gives the addict the impression that they could "hide." either that, or the people around them have their own issues and aren't paying any attention to them. like this guy, whose most meaningful conversations with his wife revolved around cleaning the gutter.
just because somebody doesn't say something to an addict doesn't mean their behavior isn't off. #dianeschuler
the boy was 5 years old. believe me he would know if mommy was hitting the booze every night. he'd have said something. kids can sense when their parents are off. they're super tuned into the nuances of their parents' behavior. #dianeschuler
@msAnthrope: This is weird, because people will say "wow, is he high!" or "she's pretty drunk" and unless they're acting the stereotypical way, I don't always notice. I'm a writer and pretty observant about most other things, but it's like I just accept the reality in front of me and don't always question it. #dianeschuler
This is really hard for me to articulate. I keep a lot to myself, but substance abuse is very hard to hide. I feel like this has less to do with who she really was, and more about how those around her wanted her to be.
I think also that if her husband is so hard-pressed to deny any wrongdoing on her part, perhaps others in her life are reluctant out of pity for him.
I don't like the insinuation that if she had been "able" to do something, this would have been preventable. We all fuck up. I couldn't even begin to guess how many of us have driven drunk. Sometimes you fuck up, and you take others with you. And sometimes it's at simple as that. #dianeschuler
@Penny: exactly. I tend towards sympathy for everyone involved. If the husband stood up right now and admitted his wife had a drinking problem then what? These people wouldn't be any less dead. And for all we know he does admit it privately (at this point) why does he have to make that public?
@Penny: And, what husband shouldn't do as he is doing? Of course the victims want him to throw his wife under the bus. That's reasonable. But he is stubbornly refusing to see anything but perfection in her. Isn't that what we all want from our spouse---unflagging support, even when we're wrong? #dianeschuler
@Cairn: Actually, no. I don't want my partner to pretend I'm perfect if I have a problem that I need to seek help for.
When I get depressed or super-anxious, it's not healthy for me to pretend that everything's fine, and I don't want my partner to, either. The best support he can give me is to be honest about what he sees happening with me, and to push me to get help and take care of myself. That's what's better for me, and us, in the long term. #dianeschuler
@Penny: It could have been me. I drank and drove in blackouts, countless times. Stories like this give me the chills - because it so easily could have been me. #dianeschuler
@Penny: Many of us have likely driven drunk, bu I seriously hope that none of us has chugged 10 shots worth of vodka straight from the bottle just before getting into a car with 4 children under the age of 8 years old. #dianeschuler
@bluebears: I think the issue is: crime or accident? Police/sheriffs by law must interview witnesses, examine evidence and determine which it was, even though it doesn't bring the victims back. #dianeschuler
@ardentlilac: yes the cops should investigate but he really doesn't have much to do with that. They have all the ammo they need anyway they've got her blood alcohol. #dianeschuler
@comrade tacky: That was absolutely my first thought, too. Maybe because of the sort of deadpan delivery. Like, "Yes, Michael, as long as your rental car is sinking in the lake, you can take your seatbelt off." #marystrey
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Lots of people do this when someone dies, elevate the person and denigrate themselves. Jsut leave them alone, they'll either work it out on their own or they won't. Public judgment or scrutiny will only cement this guy in his delusions. #dianeschuler
11/16/09
That's needlessly cold. I saw nothing in that article that indicated they were looking for a payout.
It's perfectly normal when a wrong has been done, to expect an acknowledgment that it happened.
If on the other hand someone killed your family member and their family kept going to the press about how it's not possible that they did what they did because the killer was super-mom, and she wasn't drunk even though the official autopsy shows she was LOADED, I suspect you'd be pretty livid as well. #dianeschuler
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And I have a feeling that just a single statement from the Schuler family initially to the effect of, "We have no idea what happened that day, and are completely shocked by Diane's alleged role in it. We are so sorry for your loss," would have seriously mitigated a lot of their anger (but of course not their pain). #dianeschuler
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#dianeschuler
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Obviously her parents divorce took a tremendous toll on her if she was the only one not speaking to her mother. Her brothers did. Maybe that's why she agreed to marry a man who she could mother more than be an equal partner. He views on his wife don't exactly strike a progressive cord.
The sad truth is that this woman had obviously deep problems that she kept well hidden from her close knit world. With those secrets she left behind a world of grief for others to follow. #dianeschuler
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Is this idea of perfection his own creation because he doesn't want to be judged or to have people think that he (a) didn't know his wife, (b) made her unhappy or(c) didn't talk to her. Or is it that he truly thought she was perfect in every way?
Something about it makes me think it's (a), (b), or (c). That is pretty one-sided of me, but I can't help it here. #dianeschuler
11/16/09
His press conferences after the accident seemed so strange to me though. I feel like a press conference after a car accident is pretty rare and it just accentuated the strangeness of his protestations. #dianeschuler
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Check out the picture - that's second wedding clothes. #dianeschuler
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Some enabling addicts begin the behavior in childhood -- it's an attempt to regulate the uncontrollable: "If I make it easy for X to be my friend, X will never not be my friend" or "Daddy will never drink" or "Mommy will not leave" etc. etc. etc. That's more what I was thinking -- but *any* kind of previous history with this sort of denial is troubling.
I wonder what sort of grief counseling he's seeking for himself and for his son. #dianeschuler
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I really, really hope family pressure isn't preventing her from venting any (completely understandable and expected) anger towards her brother's wife for killing her daughters. #dianeschuler
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or else she found out her husband was screwing around, and got crazy drunk.
but even if you're very introverted, if you have substance abuse problems it's nearly impossible to keep that hidden. people pick up on it. it affects your personality one way or the other, so that you change. i keep thinking she wasn't an alcoholic; something devastated her that day and caused her to grab something to erase some great pain she was feeling. let's face it, booze is easily available almost everywhere. #dianeschuler
11/16/09
I was interested in the toxicology report, which stated that she had a BA of .19, after doing 10 shots of vodka. I drink socially, and 10 shots would knock me out. Seems to point to an increased tolerance?
The whole story is just sad for everyone. #dianeschuler
11/16/09
@msAnthrope: Recovering female addicts have commented that it's fairly easy to hide behind the role of mom or wife and use daily. Social drinkers probably wouldn't have 10 shots in 60 minutes while driving a car full of kids when feeling "down," so that signals some other mental/emotional issues. #dianeschuler
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It sounds like a textbook set-up for creating a functional alcoholic to me. #dianeschuler
11/17/09
i'm just curious because i had a codeine/ painkiller "addiction" and not only my boyfriend, but two casual work associates at a summer job could tell immediately when i'd taken them. lots of times i believe we *think* we are acting the same, but we're not.
also, a couple of years after i ended my own codeine addiction i worked at another place where one of the guys had shoulder surgery and was given oxycontin for pain. and boy could i ever tell the days when he took it! he was mindlessly "up," talking much louder and more animated than usual.
it may be that people around just don't want to know, which gives the addict the impression that they could "hide." either that, or the people around them have their own issues and aren't paying any attention to them. like this guy, whose most meaningful conversations with his wife revolved around cleaning the gutter.
just because somebody doesn't say something to an addict doesn't mean their behavior isn't off. #dianeschuler
11/17/09
the boy was 5 years old. believe me he would know if mommy was hitting the booze every night. he'd have said something. kids can sense when their parents are off. they're super tuned into the nuances of their parents' behavior. #dianeschuler
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@BytheSea: The KĂĽbler-Ross stages of grief. The Bastardis are Anger and The Schulers are Denial.
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This is really hard for me to articulate. I keep a lot to myself, but substance abuse is very hard to hide. I feel like this has less to do with who she really was, and more about how those around her wanted her to be.
I think also that if her husband is so hard-pressed to deny any wrongdoing on her part, perhaps others in her life are reluctant out of pity for him.
I don't like the insinuation that if she had been "able" to do something, this would have been preventable. We all fuck up. I couldn't even begin to guess how many of us have driven drunk. Sometimes you fuck up, and you take others with you. And sometimes it's at simple as that. #dianeschuler
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When I get depressed or super-anxious, it's not healthy for me to pretend that everything's fine, and I don't want my partner to, either. The best support he can give me is to be honest about what he sees happening with me, and to push me to get help and take care of myself. That's what's better for me, and us, in the long term. #dianeschuler
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Other than that though, he is a dead ringer. #marystrey
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