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New York, 4:52 PM
Fri Dec 4
72 posts in the last 24 hours

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    Dsmvwl  Admin  Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×
    Image of debbyherbenick debbyherbenick
    06/13/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    This is such a tricky one. I used to find this practice discriminatory too. However tubal ligation is rarely reversible whereas vasectomy often is reversible. This couple, like others who don't want children (or more children than they already have), can also choose vasectomy which is (a) more affordable, (b) often reversible and (c) less risky to the patient.


    While it's a useful and valid question to ask why more women cannot choose this procedure, it's also a worthy question to ask why so many couples choose tubal ligation in the US compared to vasectomy. Research around vasectomy suggests hesitancies based on ideas of masculinity being wrapped up in men's ejaculation and ability to impregnate a woman.


    Also, the longer I've been working in the field of sex research/education, the more I've met OB/GYNs who have - repeatedly - met women in their mid to late 20s, or 30s/40s, who had a tubal ligation when they were younger but then something happened - they broke up with or divorced the first partner, for example - and later on decided they wanted to have more biological children. When these women come in for a "reversal", they are often devastated to learn that it's not that easy.


    So it's not just "what if you met a billionaire and wanted to have his children?" but the more common scenarios of "what if life happens and things don't work out with this relationship, and you later want to have another child?" Things that - while it's hard to say - one doesn't always think are likely scenarios when one is 21 and madly in love.

     Reply
    debbyherbenick was starred debbyherbenick was unstarred
    Image of audition4THIS audition4THIS
    06/13/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    I wouldn't do this on a 21 yo woman either if I was the doctor. First do no harm. Sterilizing someone who has no idea what's ahead in life is doing harm. What if god forbid her kids died while she was still of reproductive age? She might want more.
     Reply
    audition4THIS was starred audition4THIS was unstarred
    Image of bowleserised bowleserised
    06/13/09

    @audition4THIS: "do no harm"?


    What?


    You're invoking "do no harm" for tubal ligations?


    If that were the case you'd be banning all kinds of medical procedures.

     Reply
    bowleserised was starred bowleserised was unstarred
    Image of deleahrium deleahrium
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    "We've all seen that woman who had two kids, had her tubes tied at 28, and at 29 [has] a new boyfriend and wants it reversed."


    Raise your hand if you've NEVER seen this woman and call total bullshit on this guy. *raises both hands*

     Reply
    deleahrium was starred deleahrium was unstarred
    Image of philoclea philoclea
    06/13/09

    @deleahrium: I think she was talking about the experience of gynecologists, not of random people.
     Reply
    philoclea was starred philoclea was unstarred
    Image of RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    So tired of this attitude among GYNs -- and it's not just the male ones. I'm almost 40-fucking-years-old and I still get the GYNs with the "No, you don't want an IUD," and "No, you really don't want to go through sterilization." What part of DO NOT WANT KIDS do these "highly trained medical professionals" NOT understand? What part of IT'S MY DECISION TO MAKE do they not understand?


    Sorry for venting. This is a sore spot. And no, still haven't found one willing to do IUD or sterilization.

     Reply
    RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was starred RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee): I'm surprised you've had trouble getting a doctor to insert an IUD. I'm 25 and didn't have any issues- I see a midwife for well-woman care, so she may have been more open than a traditional doctor? Still, I don't see any reason for your doctor not to give you one. Do you have a planned parenthood in your area?
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
    06/12/09

    @NellMood: Yes. They declined me on the IUD, saying it was too difficult and the risk of complications too great because I haven't had kids. This is the 2nd PP to do so. I'm not sure if it's because I want the copper one or what.
     Reply
    RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was starred RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee): That's really strange- I have the copper one. Complications are incredibly rare as far as I understand.
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
    06/12/09

    @NellMood: It's baffling and frustrating. I'm hunting for a new OB/GYN in hopes I'll find a lady doc willing to either give the IUD a go or help schedule sterilization.
     Reply
    RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was starred RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee): Good luck to you! I really hope something works out- maybe you should consider going the midwife route? Mine seriously didn't even blink an eye when I asked about IUDs.
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of FashionShowAtLunch FashionShowAtLunch
    06/12/09

    @RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee): I have a friend who's 40, and the last time she was at the GYN to get oral contraceptives, her doctor asked her when she was planning on having children, and that her time was running out. Her female doctor.
     Reply
    FashionShowAtLunch was starred FashionShowAtLunch was unstarred
    Image of tcurt tcurt
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    At the risk of TMI, I'd like to share a somewhat happier doctor story. We have three kids and that's our limit. We started late and my wife's last pregnancy was at 40. What our wrinkle is is that my wife is a nurse for a catholic charity hospital. We aren't catholic, but her work-supplied insurance is. Therefore, her insurance doesn't cover things the catholic church doesn't approve of like birth control and tubals (or vesect. either). What saved us was our very kind OBGYN. He's a seminary student cowboy grandparent who can't retire because of his own medical bills from his own battle with cancer. We explained the dilemma to him, and he did the proceedure for free while my wife was having her c-section. No judgements at all.


    He is a amazing guy. Truly. He's so old school, he can actually tie knots in your wounds that don't leave scars. No staples. And he can use honey to fight infection (no idea). The appointments can go long while he tells stories though.


    PS. He tried to just switch from being an OBGYN to just a GYN so he could have a more regular schedule and less surgery. But apparently, while ladies will break down and see a doctor once they are pregnant, it's nearly impossible to pay for a practise based solely on ladies going to see their doctors on an regular preventive basis. I know it's icky, but go see your doctors, please!

     Reply
    tcurt was starred tcurt was unstarred
    Image of WantToTouchtheWahine WantToTouchtheWahine
    06/12/09

    @tcurt: I'd go more often if my insurance covered more than ONE well woman exam per year!!!


    HELLO, HPV!!!

     Reply
    WantToTouchtheWahine was starred WantToTouchtheWahine was unstarred
    Image of bellhop68 bellhop68
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    Wait a minute - I thought the Canadian healthcare system was perfect? Could it be that Canadians are not actually perfect? Gasp!!!
     Reply
    bellhop68 was starred bellhop68 was unstarred
    Image of poires et poireaux poires et poireaux
    06/12/09

    @bellhop68: We're almost perfect. Our farts still smell like socialist roses.
     Reply
    poires et poireaux was starred poires et poireaux was unstarred
    Image of Elizabooth Elizabooth
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    I posted this in another comment, but I'll say it again -- I too live in Canada and most doctors also will not give men under 30 a vasectomy, even if they have kids. So, it's not a woman thing.


    I'm not going to defend these doctors, because in this case this woman obviously seems to know what she wants, but I think a lot of women (or men) might see surgical sterilization as the perfect form of birth control, then come to regret it. Not sure what the rules are, but if either the operation or the reversals are covered by Canadian Health Care, I can understand why the doctors/government might be hesitant to do it.

     Reply
    Elizabooth was starred Elizabooth was unstarred
    Image of WantToTouchtheWahine WantToTouchtheWahine
    06/12/09

    @Elizabooth: I bet the men don't get condescending comments though.
     Reply
    WantToTouchtheWahine was starred WantToTouchtheWahine was unstarred
    Image of umami umami
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    I am wondering if part of this is due to doctors' fear of liability. What if the patient turned around years later and decided to sue?


    While I support every woman's right to choose her own reproductive future, it is true that there are many other ways to prevent unwanted pregnancy.


    If I were a gynocologist, I would recommend a patient consider using an IUD and then revisit the subject when the IUD has to be removed three years later. It would be absolutely terrible for someone to make a decision this big and then regret it a few years later, and as a professionals who takes an oath to "do no harm," it is not entirely unreasonable for doctors to be wary.

     Reply
    umami was starred umami was unstarred
    Image of blueberrypancake blueberrypancake
    06/12/09

    @umami: That'd be a good solution if the IUD didn't post any health risks or side effects, as compared to the tubal ligation. I think when you have an IUD you can't use tampons or cups, right? That would NOT be cool with me.


    But you have a good point about the lawsuits. I hate how litigious our society is because it can really get in the way of medical care. However, if I wanted to be sterilized I'd happily sign a waiver saying I wouldn't sue if I wanted it reversed and it couldn't be!

     Reply
    blueberrypancake was starred blueberrypancake was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @blueberrypancake: You can use tampons with an IUD, and supposedly cups, but they make me nervous.


    But there can be a lot of side effects with an IUD, so I'm not sure it would be the best solution for someone in this situation.

     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of umami umami
    06/12/09

    @blueberrypancake: I found several reputalble online sources that say you can still use tampons when you have an IUD. Here's one:


    [www.cmdhd.org]


    I've been researching them lately because of concerns about the pill ending up in our water supply and turning fish into hermaphrodites. It seems like they are the "greenest" form of reversible contraceptive.

     Reply
    umami was starred umami was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @umami: IUDs are awesome! My period is slightly longer and crampier, but they are totally worth it. I'm trying to muster up the courage to use a cup so I can stop wasting so much money on tampons.
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of Wit is periodically disensouled Wit is periodically disensouled
    06/12/09

    @umami: Then why not have her sign a waiver? Write down all the possible complications and have her sign that she read it? Make her agree in writing that she has been advised of the ramifications and complications, that it is considered a permanent alteration that may not be reversible which she requested, made a knowing decision to enter into and consents to, etc.


    This isn't brain surgery...

     Reply
    Wit is periodically disensouled was starred Wit is periodically disensouled was unstarred
    Image of BytheSea BytheSea
    06/12/09

    @Wit is periodically disensouled: Lawyers can get around waivers.
     Reply
    BytheSea was starred BytheSea was unstarred
    Image of Wit is periodically disensouled Wit is periodically disensouled
    06/15/09

    @BytheSea: Yes, I know, I am one. But just because you can get around some of them some of the time doesn't mean they're useless or worthless. It's rather like birth control, actually.
     Reply
    Wit is periodically disensouled was starred Wit is periodically disensouled was unstarred
    Image of battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    Well, thanks for reminding me how 'ephemeral' female rights are. SURE you can haz birth control, unless your doctor decides your weak female brain can't handle it. SURE you can tie your tubes, unless of course your doctor decides your weak female brain can't handle it. SURE you can have an abortion, unless some dickbag with a gun decides to shoot anyone who tries to help you.


    Fuck you, America.

     Reply
    battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch was starred battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch was unstarred
    Image of battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch
    06/12/09

    @battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch: & Montreal. Whatever. GENERAL POINT STILL STANDS!
     Reply
    battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch was starred battleaxonista...is a humorless bitch was unstarred
    Image of randomnessish randomnessish
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    Don't you realize? It's God's Will that we pop out as many babies as humanly possible, as many as the stars in the sky.


    Pop! Pop! Pop!

     Reply
    randomnessish was starred randomnessish was unstarred
    Image of WantToTouchtheWahine WantToTouchtheWahine
    06/12/09

    @randomnessish: Ooo, I better get to work on that then! At least the process is fun!
     Reply
    WantToTouchtheWahine was starred WantToTouchtheWahine was unstarred
    Image of RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee)
    06/12/09

    @randomnessish: Have now imagined babies popping out from bubble wrap.
     Reply
    RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was starred RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee) was unstarred
    Image of randomnessish randomnessish
    06/12/09

    @RoseColette (fewer thorns; more coffee): I was picturing more like a vagina-cannon. But I guess the sound effects would be more like, "FWOOM FWOOM FWOOM"
     Reply
    randomnessish was starred randomnessish was unstarred
    Image of KiddyKat KiddyKat
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    One more thing: if you go in to get your tubes tied, you've probably been thinking about it for a very long time and are probably really sure you don't want kids.


    Unless it's like abortion, where you just decide to get one, one day as you walk down the street. Actually, I bet these doctors do have those kinds of views of abortion. Would make sense.

     Reply
    KiddyKat was starred KiddyKat was unstarred
    Image of BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit) BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
    06/12/09

    @KiddyKat: Yeah, one day I decided to get an abortion. It was right after I went to the dry cleaners then stopped for delicious yogurt. Then I remembered I wasn't pregnant. Damn.
     Reply
    BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit) was starred BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit) was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    @BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit): It's always the worst when you're really set on getting an abortion and then you realize you aren't pregnant yet. It's just such an awesome experience- definitely one of my favorite things to do on a lazy Saturday.
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of weetziebat weetziebat
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    she's married, has a college degree, has a job, and has a kid and one on the way, all by age 21? Damn, this lady has her shit together. Snaps to her for being so accomplished at such a young age, and for standing up for her right to make her own decisions about her body.

    It took three obgyns for me to find one that would let me get a mirena at age 21, as a childless woman who plans on adopting and future children. I can only imagine how many i would have to go through to get a more permanent form of birth control.
     Reply
    weetziebat was starred weetziebat was unstarred
    Image of Inkymonkey Inkymonkey
    06/12/09

    @weetziebat: The lockdown on IUDs blows my mind. It doesn't impair your ability to have children in the future. Really, prohibiting them to young women is just a way to force us to keep shelling $30 a month for pills.


    Getting my mirena was an awfully nice perk of becoming a mom. I always wanted one and never could find a doc who'd do it.

     Reply
    Inkymonkey was starred Inkymonkey was unstarred
    Image of Gingerlime Gingerlime
    06/12/09

    @Inkymonkey: Hearting you for this. Maybe it's Big Pharma after all??
     Reply
    Gingerlime was starred Gingerlime was unstarred
    Image of WantToTouchtheWahine WantToTouchtheWahine
    06/12/09

    @Gingerlime: Dude, of COURSE it's Big Pharma.
     Reply
    WantToTouchtheWahine was starred WantToTouchtheWahine was unstarred
    Image of colormeroutine colormeroutine
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    My mom's doctor tried to talk her out of having her tubes tied when she was in her 30s and had 3 children. That did not go over too well with her
     Reply
    colormeroutine was starred colormeroutine was unstarred
    Image of badmutha badmutha
    06/12/09

    @colormeroutine: That is absolutely right.
     Reply
    badmutha was starred badmutha was unstarred
    Image of NellMood NellMood
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    Wouldn't it be nice to live in a world where we actually had autonomy over our own uteri? I would love be judged competent enough to make my own choices about what I do with my reproductive organs.
     Reply
    NellMood was starred NellMood was unstarred
    Image of WantToTouchtheWahine WantToTouchtheWahine
    06/12/09

    @NellMood: Oh, you silly little woman. Stick to what you can handle - shoes and martinis!
     Reply
    WantToTouchtheWahine was starred WantToTouchtheWahine was unstarred
    Image of Grim Reaper of the Forest Grim Reaper of the Forest
    06/12/09

    In reply to Doctor Thwarts Canadian Woman's Choice To Be Sterilized
    This is exactly like mandatory waiting periods for abortions. Women can't be trusted to make their own decisions.
     Reply
    Grim Reaper of the Forest was starred Grim Reaper of the Forest was unstarred
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