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Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?

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happymisanthrope
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I'm confused. Of course fashion (like pop music) tends to be youth orientated -- young people who don't have to dress for a job every day can take more risks clothing wise. If you want to stay ahead of the curve you look at what the teenagers are wearing. That's just the nature of the art.
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quickqueenof
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
Chicos. Now, before you get all "omg I would never shop there even when I am an olds" I ask you look in the store. It is not so bad and it gets better each year. (they are totally down to 1 poncho top per season) I shop at White House/Black Market which is a super chic offshoot of Chicos, and I think that I will be a Chico's lady later in life.
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lolacat
05/22/09

@quickqueenof: Chico's may be getting better. I like their jewelery. So long as they move away from the safari look, I'll give them a chance.
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tiredfairy
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I've always thought that the focus on a very specific version of youth was, in part, a cultural way of setting an impossible ideal that we then struggle to maintain far past the point of that miniscule sliver of time.

It's like everything is stuck somewhere around this idealized time of 14-16 or so...where your skin is glowing, you never get a zit, and you're lithe and mostly under developed. Except that describes very few actual 14-16 year olds, who are spending all their time trying to look older and more womanly.

It's an insane cycle.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
05/21/09

@tiredfairy: It strikes me that it's a fairly recent phenomenon, too. Forty or fifty years old at the most, and only about twenty in the current incarnation. Was once a time when a woman wasn't really an adult until she had a husband and kids. We rejected that model--and rightly--in second-wave feminism, sometimes delayed or rejected marriage, started to go to college and have careers and redefine ourselves as professionals, and I suspect thought that would be the end of it. But it wasn't. It was the point at which that definition of womanhood shifted to something else, no one thing, and when suddenly, though we've deprived them of any responsibility for themselves, we've started to be obligated to take adolescents seriously. There's more to it than this, but somehow we've found ourselves at the very height of our power--educated, earning professional salaries, in control of our fertility, making better marriages when we choose to make them, and loosed of the old artificial paradigm about our womanity, and somehow we can't translate that power into rejecting the notion that teenage girls are the end-all, be-all of our beauty standard and our behavior standard.

I say, enough of this shit. But I'm an old bat in training, and happy about it.
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Shotrock
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
Maybe the problem isn't that there's nothing out there. Maybe the problem is that some people like Talbot's and some people don't. And some people like Boden and some people don't.

I don't like Talbots; so I say, "I don't like Talbots." If you do like Talbots, how does that statement make you feel?

Some people don't like Boden. They say: "Boden is the costume of a particularly smug brand of privilege..."

If you do like Boden, how does THAT statement make you feel?

There's a helluva difference between the "I can't find anything in store X that fits me" response and the "OMG what kind of uptight bitch would WEAR their stuff?" response.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
05/21/09

@Shotrock: This. So much of this has been not about how people feel about themselves in clothes, but how they feel about other people who wear certain clothes, or how they feel about stores and people who shop in them. Some of it is unavoidable, I think. Branding cuts both ways. But some of this is so close to, "I could never shop there because their clothes are BORING and I'm sure that people who shop there are BORING and I can't bear to look BORING."

Makes nudity look better and better. And as we age, no worries about how to hide the Tampax string.
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lolacat
05/22/09

@Shotrock: @TheFormerJuneBronson: I think there is a certain point, though, to complaining about stores that nominally make clothing for all women in the non- plus size universe. Nominally, because their clothes don't actually fit women who are larger than a size 10 though they sell those sizes. And they sell those sizes at full retail because they stock so few- my sizes don't often make it to the sales rack (unless it is horribly unfit) because they only stock a few.

Anyway, I can complain about Talbot's and all those stores. I don't like them. I don't like their clothes- in style. I don't like the branding. And, yes, the clothing is "boring" to me. Clothing is an important expression I make. It is important to me and I would hate to be forced to choose something (becasue of the size of my hips) I find "boring"
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TeFrey
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
My mom was complaining about this just yesterday. She doesn't want to dress like her kids, but she's also not ready to dress like an old lady. There needs to be something in the middle.
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jrhys
05/21/09

@TeFrey: I quite like Zara, actually...
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Scout
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
i say NAKED FOR EVERYONE! (as weather permits)

why? because you know what? at least HALF of the people who look good IN clothes don't look so hot OUT of their clothes - they would then have no room to speak of the "flaws" of others

We would then see that we are all more alike than different - that the uber skinny girl has no muscle tone, that the larger girl has lovely, super soft skin, that the handsome dude has back and shoulder hair, that the chubby guy has the nicest bubble butt ass.....et al

clothing allows people to hide all sorts of things and appear as something they are not
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Her Grace
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I have jeans, t-shirts, chucks, and ballet flats. If med school doesn't let me dress like House, I renounce my plans to be a doctor.
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GuyNermit
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I'm 48 and yes, there is almost NOTHING out there for me.

All those other retailers are apparently idiots, forcing me to spend my huge disposable income only at J Crew last year (And Target--I love Target clothes)!

The styles at Talbots, Ann Taylor, J Jill, and those other stores supposedly "aimed" at my demographic make my skin crawl. Ugh! And they're also cheaply made, overpriced, and cut to make anyone look like a granny.
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trublusu
05/21/09

My friend works for Talbots and he wonders why so many stores are going out of business. Maybe it's the butt ugly clothes that are meant for the over 35 woman, no thanks, I'll pass. I have had some luck in Lord and Taylor and Saks, but it's too expensive.
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happymisanthrope
05/21/09

@trublusu: My Mom loves Talbots...
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trublusu
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I just came from shopping, Macy's, Marshall's, Talbots, Ann Taylor - everything looks like it fell off the ugly truck, all friggin flowers and shit and it all looks like maternity wear.
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emilyanne
05/21/09

@trublusu: meanwhile it's shit hard to find actual maternity wear that's ok in this country. Or at least I've struggled.
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TheFormerJuneBronson
05/21/09

@trublusu: If you only knew how hard it is to find actual maternity wear, that's comfortable and professional and well-made, unless you're a size -4 and cute as a button. Apparently size 14s aren't supposed to get laid, either. But we do, and the world can suck it.
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emilyanne
05/21/09

@TheFormerJuneBronson: yay exactly. It's a nightmare finding maternity gear.
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saintbernadette
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I work in an actual office, and every damn day I wear jeans, some kind of t-shirty shirt, and flip flops. I worry about myself all the time, because I should be dressing better, and frankly, I could spend money on clothes . . . but the ones I want simply do not exist.
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lefteye
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
Funny, because I had the reverse experience when I was in my 20s and trying to shop in "petites." Ladies, I give you Alfred Dunner.
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the dodo, the cuckoo, and the nene
05/21/09

@lefteye: My grandma wore Alfred Dunner petites throughout the 80s and 90s. She always loved shopping for "slacks" and shirts with a band around the bottom. At least you have more stylish choices now!
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hausfrau76
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
I'm stocking up on Golden Girl-like outfits, strappy mules? Got 'em. Flowy pants? Yup. Gauzy blouses and long jackets? Call me Dorothy!
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saintbernadette
05/21/09

@hausfrau76: I'll meet you in the kitchen for cheesecake in 5.
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leftcoaster
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
OK, so obviously a t-shirt and tights is a ridiculous failure of a suggestion for everyone who doesn't work in a dance studio. But what are older or average-American-proportioned women looking for? I hear a lot of complaining but I really don't know what they want.
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saintbernadette
05/21/09

@leftcoaster: Classic, but with a smidgeon of cute/character thrown in.
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jrhys
05/21/09

@leftcoaster: To look sexy but not slutty, professional but not dowdy, hip but not mutton dressed lamb.
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oohlookasquirrel
05/21/09

@leftcoaster: Something between mom jeans/pleated pants and ultra low rise distressed skinny jeans. There does exist a middle ground, but finding a store that sells it can be tricky.
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Trilby O'Ferrall
05/21/09

@oohlookasquirrel: Banana Republic, J Crew, Club Monaco, Zara, and H&M. Plenty of that in those stores.
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Merkin
05/21/09

@lawschoolnolongermakesmecrazy...because I graduated!:
Banana Republic- Mostly frumpy
J Crew- Only available online here; generally cut skinny with tight sleeves. Like Gap, looks dowdy if you're not pencil-thin, very often.
Club Monaco- Getting into the lower end of the "luxury" market here, for whatever reason. I have a $300 CM draped sweater that I bought in a fit of madness while on vacation; I don't know why I bought it. Probably too rich for the average blood.
Zara- I only wish. I love what I see of their clothes. Come to Canada, Zara.
and H&M- Cheaply made, everything I've picked up. V. overpriced.

But on a more serious note, here's quite a good blog about "style for the 50+"; Duchesse has good taste (though not my taste, sometimes) and is pretty honest about what she, and other women her age, are often looking for in clothes.
[passagedesperles.blogspot.com]
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Trilby O'Ferrall
05/21/09

@Merkin: But see, then the issue isn't "there are no fashionable choices for women over 35", the issue is really "there are no choices in the fashion that I personally like for women over 35." Because really, the best dressed women in the world are 30+ on almost every list I ever see. And the current style icons, except for MK Olsen, are all women over 30. Need I even mention the Carrie Bradshaw years? And how women are STILL copying her style? I am not frumpy at all, neither are my friends, but we find plenty to wear in the stores I listed, and other stores too. J Crew has amazing summer dresses and accessories, and Zara is fabulous. H&M is throwaway chic which is great for those of us who are just gong into or coming out of grad/law/med school. The others are good for work clothes. But they aren't your personal style, so then you think there are "no" options but that isn't true. There are plenty of choices, high and low end, just not to your taste. Those stores are not "old lady" and not "sexy teen", they are exactly in the middle. Which is what people seem to be complaining there is a lack of. Thus, my confusion as to why this is an issue.
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Merkin
05/21/09

@lawschoolnolongermakesmecrazy...because I graduated!: Well, there are no (or rather, few) choices I personally like, because few of them fit me properly, or look good on my shape, or are comfortable. And my personal style has been created out of years of living in my personal shape, which is much more stereotypically "mature woman" than the boyish androgyne who has, by and large, been treated as the ideal figure for years - so... it's kind of circular. I can't dress like Sarah Jessica Parker, or Kate Lanphear, or Carine Roitfeld, because I am five-three on a good day, my shoulders are eighteen inches across, my thighs are generous, and the world is simply not standing in line to see that. And the world is making nice clothes, yes, but mostly REALLY for women who look like those women, and even if it nominally comes in my size, the shape, the proportions, the everything are all wrong.
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Trilby O'Ferrall
05/21/09

@Merkin: What you said there? I agree with. I think that is actually the real problem here. It's not that there is no fashionable clothing for women over 35, or that fashion ignores women over 35. A casual perusal of Vogue, W or Harpers Bazaar would show that to be false. It's that women's bodies usually change as they age, and the fashion industry does not allow for that. So they offer plenty of clothing that is age-appropriate, but they make it to look best on skinny model types who are not kids, such as Naomi Campbell, SJP, Angelina Jolie, etc. That's the real beast here, sizeism, again.
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sallyfloyd
05/21/09

@Merkin: Wow, so the two brands THIS over-35 relies on for everyday staples -- Banana Republic and J. Crew -- are "frumpy" and "dowdy." Good to know. It's awesome how, in a discussion over whether or not there are clothes out there for women that acknowledge a wide variety of ages, social situations and tastes, we can so confidently blanket a few brands with pejorative aesthetic qualifiers.

Shit, I can see where the WSJ lady's coming from now.
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lolacat
05/21/09

@lawschoolnolongermakesmecrazy...because I graduated!: I have to say all of your selections make clothes for skinny women. Their larger sizes are fairly ill-fitting. And the shirts, Fugeddaboutit!. I don't think they want women to have anything over a B cup. I have to buy a shirt three sizes too big just to button over my breasts. And of course, they have 200 size two's in stock but 3 size fourteens (which sell out fast).
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Merkin
05/21/09

@sallyfloyd: Sorry; thought my post made it clear that their selections were mostly frumpy on ME PERSONALLY. Because I am short, and broad in the shoulders, and if things don't fit or hems hit in the wrong place, my entire outline, which can be pleasingly curvy in the right clothes, becomes boxy, squat, and yes, frumpy and dowdy. The baggy khakhi preppy look was only mine for the brief period when I was starving, but also size 2 - as lolacat points out.

Skinny women look good in everything these days. Easy. A skinny 45-year-old woman can wear something that might, on some women her age, be overly young - because she's not bulging out of it inappropriately, her silhouette is "right". But cross that magic size 6-8 marker - and I know, cos I did it, live-action, not so many years ago - and suddenly not only does every single brand have a different and unpredictable cut, which might or might not fit, and might or might not be completely bizarre considered in comparison with an actual human body, but even if it does fit, one must give serious consideration to the philosophical and entirely subjective question, "can I really pull this shit off?"
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lolacat
05/22/09

@lawschoolnolongermakesmecrazy...because I graduated!: I think sizeism is an issue there. However, I think what we are complaining about is that designers and shops that sell nationally (like BR & J. Crew) do not bother to even attempt to dress women across the size 6-8 divide. A size 10 is this no-man's land. Sure, they stock it. They just don't attempt to alter the fit in any way to account for the proportions of a Size 10. So the thigh ratio for a size 2 is the same size ratio for a size 10- which presents the bizzarest fit you can imagine. The waist may fit but I can't get it over my hips.

So yes, that is a sizeist complaint- of sorts. However, it is absolutely disgusting that I have to whine about my size when it is a perfectly normal size. I am not expecting to fit into runway samples or expect off-the-rack couture to fit. I want to fit into the clothes that are sized 14- my size. I want to shop at the Mall in Missouri, not Paris or Milan.

I would rather dress at Banana Republic (even at their prices), however, they don't care to dress more than half the women in America. The places that attempt to dress me or at least offer more forgiving or faithful sizing (i.e a 14 is actually a 14 and not a 10 to shame me) serve an overly large demographic. The places where my hips fit are also looking to fit the hips of every woman from 35 to 85. Yes- the other clothing stores sell the same clothes to a FIFTY year demographic.

I don't want to shop at Talbot's or Land's End or, please God I am not ready yet, Chadwicks of Boston. I want what the country is selling to everyone but me because my body is shapely and comely- in a Bottecelli kinda' way.

I'm too old to squeeze into fancy Nordstrom's jeans that fit badly. But, I'm too young to proudly wear elasticized jeans.
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lolacat
05/22/09

@Merkin: My fat-shaming family has a saying: "Everything looks good in a size two."
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punitentiary
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
not quite! anyone seen "not your daughter's jeans" at nordstrom? its another way of saying "mom jeans" and it makes me laugh every time.
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lolacat
05/21/09

@punitentiary: Nuh-uh. Those things are awesome. They are high enough to prevent the horrid middle-age muffin top-overload. But low enough and do not have an obvious elasticized waistband. The styling is totally acceptable. They remind me of Gap jeans styling- nothing earth-shattering but I am happy to wear them. And no drawstrings or wierd washes.
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Acquanetta
05/21/09

In reply to Are Older Women Ignored By Fashion?
Fuck 'em.

I'm 51 and most of my clothing money goes toward cycling clothes. As in bicycling.

And bikes. And bike parts. And bike computers. And ride registration fees.

That shit's expensive!
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jrhys
05/21/09

@Acquanetta: You rock!
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