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The Red Sea
Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
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NefariousNewt
08/24/09

In reply to The Red Sea
I would certainly like to visit Dresden.
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Rocket Queen
08/24/09

In reply to The Red Sea
Reminds me of a scene in Inglourious Basterds.
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JinxyMcDeath
08/24/09

@Rocket Queen: Ha! I see I'm not the only one who can't stop thinking about that movie. Loved it.
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greengrey
08/24/09

@JinxyMcDeath: I want to see it again. So good.
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Rocket Queen
08/24/09

@JinxyMcDeath: LOVED IT!!! So much. I was there was a thread we could discuss it in. The first scene was so sad. And Landa. Incredible and villainous.
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alouette
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
The astronaut love triangle sounds like a rip off of The Office. Now, who's stealing from whom, hmm?
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
People need to stop hurting animals. Seriously. There was a story in our local paper on monday: a cat was found outside a library in my county on sunday morning. The cat had fourth-degree burns on most of his body, and had evidently been wrapped in plastic before he was torched. He was ALIVE. The animal hospital also determined that he had some broken bones, indicating that he'd also been beaten. Again, he was ALIVE. The hospital did everything they could, but he didn't make it. Want to know who the "person of interest" was? A NINE-YEAR-OLD BOY. Shit makes me so sick. I know he's only a child, but I'd like to see him locked up permanently and kept away from all other living beings. It's just my natural response in cases of animal abuse/murder. Sorry to be a downer on a lovely friday evening, but this has been on my mind all week. I just feel so bad for that poor darling little cat.
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Mediokra
07/10/09

@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: I'm fairly certain animal abuse is the saddest thing in the entire world. I believe that anyone who kills a cat should be tried in the same manner as if they had killed a human being. It's so awful and sickening and inexcusable. I cannot even wrap my mind around a nine-year-old ... what will they do with him?
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LawFairy
07/10/09

@..now it's just Aesop's Foibles.: I am so completely with you. Perhaps it means I fail on some level as a human being, but nothing, I mean NOTHING, gets to me like hearing about an innocent animal being made to suffer. Not massive genocide, not poverty and starvation and war, not even child-killing type stuff -- all of which, obviously, are HORRIFIC and which of course I do care very much about. But, nope. If you want me turning on the waterworks, tell me about some sick fuck who's decided to torture a puppy. Only sure way to get yourself treated to some serious sobbing and fist-pounding.

I think it has something to do with the pure innocence of animals. They have an innocence I think human beings, by virtue of our superior intelligence, on some level just aren't *capable* of.
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Mediokra
07/10/09

@LawFairy: I hear you. I can watch the saddest, most ridiculous things on the news and not shed a tear, but then an ASPCA commercial comes on and I literally sob. It's not that I don't care about human beings, of course, but I agree with your comment about their innocence and utter defenselessness. It really, really gets to me.
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schweppes
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
I think the monkey thing was (should have been?) more about naming a monkey after a famous person who's last name is unique enough to unequivically tie that person with the association. So, yeah, maybe the zoo SHOULD have changed the name to a more neutral (or first) name, but the fact that it's another common name in Africa? Kinda irrelevant.
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doodley is not amused
07/10/09

@schweppes: How is it irrelevant? It seems the real problem was that giving the monkey an African name perpetuates an ethnic slur. From the article: “Black people continue to be confronted by associations with the animal kingdom and primitivity.” How is giving the monkey a different African name resolving that issue?
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Edited by doodley is not amused at 07/10/09 6:13 PM

schweppes
07/11/09

@doodley is not amused: Because, as almost every commenter in this thread has pointed out (correctly): MOST animals in zoos are given names that are traditional in the region that they hail from.
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LadyFabulous
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
I am really disappointed about the ski jumping thing. I thought it would've been so great for the 2010 Olympics to have the first women's ski jumping event. This is the second time you've disappointed me this week Vancouver, what's up with that, yo?!
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kelsium
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
Changing the name is discriminatory against monkeys. Monkeys should have the right to be named after historic presidents the same as lichen !
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LaComtesse
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
I dunno: I definitely understand the Obama monkey issue but not so much with Okeke if the monkey is an African species. We give tigers from India Indian names and Siberian tigers Russian names. Clearly it is not the intention of the zoo to pay tribute to a racist stereotype, but rather to keep in line with the way they name animals.
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schweppes
07/10/09

@LaComtesse: Also, it was the Dresden zoo, the little guy was born right after Obama's visit AND the zoo has a thing where they name all the animals born in a certain year with the same letter, and 2009 was "O." Makes it seem pretty harmless, actually.
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eri401
07/10/09

@schweppes: Intentionality does not contain every consequence though nor does it stay in an ahistorical bubble of good intentions. Even if it was "meant well" or it "makes sense" in other contexts, the association of a monkey with an African person --and named after a prominent figure who was publically equated to a monkey during his campaign -- is probably not a good step.
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mbot says Spock yeah!
07/10/09

@schweppes: That makes it more understandable, if nothing else. But still... awkward!
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Le Kangourou de Kataroo
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
Re: Womenz and the work dress code. I wish I could dismiss the following clip as farce, but I had essentially the same conversation with our 23 year old admin this week (I'm 24), but instead of "YOU NEED TO WEAR A BRA" it was "YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR CLEAVAGE IN CHECK"
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Penny
07/10/09

@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: When I was at my first job out of college, our receptionist dressed SO inappropriately (especially around the boob area) and HR enforced this crazy-strict dress code, including wearing pantyhose in the summer. I knew it was because of her, I was so pissed.

Also....hi!!

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kelsium
07/10/09

@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: A good friend of mine was telling me that she had to have the HR rep talk to a food service worker about the fact that her dress was too short and her bra was hanging out the top. Seriously? I've worked food service and I would NEVER wear anything in which I were not completely comfortable that no ladybits would spontaneously appear.
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Edited by kelsium at 07/10/09 5:55 PM kelsium was starred kelsium was unstarred

Le Kangourou de Kataroo
07/10/09

@Penny: Hello!

The thing that worries me the most is we don't have a dress code at all, for the sole reason we haven't had to have one, especially since we're a casual office. I fear for the day the dress code is necessary, but I'm pretty sure the 6 guys in the office don't mind... just me and the other (female) marketing director!

Still, I'm amazed at the sheer number of people in general who do not understand how to dress appropriately for various situations.

(Now, get off my lawn)
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Edited by Le Kangourou de Kataroo at 07/10/09 6:11 PM

LawFairy
07/10/09

@Le Kangourou de Kataroo: I dunno. Cleavage issues make me a little nervous. Women's clothing is designed to emphasize cleavage. Period. So in order to look "professional" women with large cleavage have to choose between stylish but inappropriate and frumpy but acceptable? Seems kinda sexist how there's no comparable calculus for men. I mean, I understand some of the reasoning behind it, and certainly there are blatant violators, but I've been in work situations where a woman with large breasts was told to dress more modestly when she was already wearing fucking TWIN SETS. In LOS ANGELES. It doesn't get a lot more matronly than twin sets. It always irks me how there's such a huge focus on breasts, as though there's something natural about obsessing over exactly how much breast a woman should show at work. How about we start sitting down and talking to men about their inappropriate inseams, hmm?? Because I have DEFINITELY found occasion for distraction on that front, and I KNOW I'm not the only one. You know what I mean, when a hot dude sits down and pulls his pants legs up and crosses one foot across the opposite knee? Come on, TELL me you've never noticed.
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Vivelafat says Sweep the leg, Johnny.
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
What word would you like us to use Tony? Perhaps rape??
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Dodgergirl
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
Good news for adulterous jetsetters and others too busy to sit down at a computer for their extramarital liaisons: cheating website AshleyMadison.com is now available on iPhone and Blackberry.

They should really consider naming the program for Mark Sanford.
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Edited by Dodgergirl at 07/10/09 5:38 PM Dodgergirl was starred Dodgergirl was unstarred

Penny
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
I don't know, with that hair-do he's looking a little more like Larry King. Give him some suspenders and I don't think I'd be able to tell them apart.
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KiddyKat
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
I went to the museum of sex in NYC, once. If the Berlin one is anything like that (and it sounds worse or better, depending on who you are), DO NOT go there with your mother. Most uncomfortable moment of my life.
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lilbobbytables
07/10/09

@KiddyKat: D: That sounds awful! Not the museum, per se, but the being there with your mother aspect. I think that mamatables and myself would never be able to speak to each other again.
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KiddyKat
07/10/09

@lilbobbytables is a la-di-da feminist: Oh my jeebus, she was not happy with the second floor where all the porn videos were playing in a loop. The first floor (sex toys and erotica), she was fine with...which is also something I don't want to dwell on.
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thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe.
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
Hey Dresden Zoo,

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Edited by thesciencegirl wields the truth like a mighty axe. at 07/10/09 5:36 PM

HuckleberryFriend
07/10/09

@thesciencegirl: It's reverse racism! No, wait. Just normal racism
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schweppes
07/10/09

In reply to Zoo Renames "Obama" Monkey • Apology Might Secure Journalists' Release
To be fair, statistically/scientifically/medically, babies born to older mothers DO have a higher likelihood for a whole host of medical conditions. I don't know if I would cast that as "widespread rhetoric about the evils of delaying childbearing."
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Penny
07/10/09

@schweppes: No, but it's a shame that every time I hear it (which seems to be a few times a week) I look at my watch and think "oh, shit."
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slowpoke.r
07/10/09

@schweppes: As a childless 35 year old, I can tell you that that phrase is not far off. According to the media, as of my last birthday I am doomed to either not be able to reproduce at all or to create some hideous beast that will be born burnished with a scarlet "35" on its forehead so that everyone will know its mother "waited too long."

Seriously though, the blurb about the article doesn't refute what you're saying; all they say is that the mothers deal just as well, not that the babies do.
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Edited by slowpoke.r at 07/10/09 5:54 PM slowpoke.r was starred slowpoke.r was unstarred

Lymed
07/10/09

@Penny: You wouldn't want your eggs to get old, now would you?
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schweppes
07/10/09

@slowpoke.r: Honestly, though, I've yet to hear a single news report refer to the children of 35+ yo women as "hideous beasts." I get it was supposed to be hyperbole, but, again, those news reports are true. Are they too frequent? Maybe, I don't really know if women need to be reminded that much. BUT, it's not really a witch hunt (unless you're watching/reading different shit than I am)
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slowpoke.r
07/10/09

@schweppes: I don't know how old you are, or if you have any interest in having kids, but if the answers are "under 35" and/ or "no", then maybe it's just that I'm simply more sensitive to the frequency and tone of articles about the topic?

Anyway, though it was mostly hyperbole, there is a LOT of reporting about increased difficulty in conceiving and increased birth defects for women over 35. There's a factual basis for it, yes, but the amount of reporting on the topic has more to do with how we feel about women making choices about career, education, and childbearing and what order we choose to do (or not to do) them in. It just seems to me, and other women I personally know who are in the same boat, that there's a lot of shame and guilt being tossed towards women who "delayed" their childbearing. Think of the children, you know?
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itsonreserve
07/10/09

@slowpoke.r: I think what makes the tone so bothersome to me (under 35) isn't that they say it, but that it's so commonly rattled off as something true without the numbers. I honestly don't know how much of a raise in defects there are after 35 as it's never quoted. 5%? 50%? No clue.
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slowpoke.r
07/10/09

@itsonreserve: You know, I'm not so sure either, so I just googled and here's some info from the first link I hit (webMD, the second link, doesn't bother with the numbers):

Risk of Birth Defects

The risk of having a baby with chromosomal disorders increase as a woman grows older. The most common of these disorders is Down syndrome, a combination of mental retardation and physical abnormalities caused by the presence of an extra chromosome. At age 25, a woman has about a 1-in-1, 250 chance of having a baby with Down syndrome; at age 30, a 1-in-1,000 chance; at age 35, a 1-in-400 chance; at age 40, a 1-in-100 chance; and at 45, a 1-in-30 chance.

Chromosomal Birth Defects

One major reason for apprehension in a pregnancy after age 35 is increased risk of chromosomal abnormalities. Age-related chromosomal birth defects such as Down syndrome occur in only about 1 in 200 pregnancies for women aged 35. However, for women age 40 at the time of pregnancy, the risk rises to about 1-2 percent.

Yup, that's right, your risk of bearing a child with this specific birth defect increases to a 1 in 400, no wait, a 1 in 200, or maybe it is a 1 in 400? chance as soon as you hit 35. And no, I did not edit that at all- these two paragraphs are right next to each other. No wonder I'm so annoyed with all the reporting about this topic.
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Edited by slowpoke.r at 07/10/09 7:20 PM slowpoke.r was starred slowpoke.r was unstarred

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