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Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned

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TheUptightMidwesterner
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Deflecting sexual harrassment with humor = Workplace Survival for Women in the 1960'-1970's.

That was all you had back then- so don't blame her for not jumping on the lawsuit bus. That is what she knew and what worked for her.
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Pearl Forrester
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Geez, her "feminist" attitude about sex was that we should ENJOY being men's sex objects, not that we should take control of our own sexual identities/pleasures.

Empowerment: ur doing it wrong!!!
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SarahMC
01/14/09

@Pearl Forrester: Exactly. The sexual revolution was one led by men, with the goal of turning women into perpetually available sex objects. Women didn't have much freedom to say "no" to sex during that time, and as it turns out, plenty of people still push that agenda.
The women's liberation movement actually had women's LIBERATION in mind.
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Nuckin Futz for you
01/15/09

@Pearl Forrester: I think we still fight this issue though. Aren't the half clad girls used in advertisments in men's magazines being a man's sex object. We seem to glorify that we now have a CHOICE to not be a sex object but for every girl that wants to be graded on herself as a total package of looks, brains, and personality there is another girl happy to be nothing but a walking sex symbol. We may have won the right to say no but we still allow women to be judged and valued based on the amount of sexiness they put out there. Its a double edged sword.
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fuzzyorangabear
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
So it's a relic of a bygone era and it brought "feminism" a new feel to make it easier to swallow for the masses. I would feel great about that if I didn't see the end result of that today. It seems like women were sexually freed just to constantly struggle to be seen as beautiful--or to be objectified. I see the mindset of Cosmo as a kind of forerunner to those lovely pop culture things like Girls Gone Wild. Okay, I guess that's vicious and I don't know if that makes as much sense on here as it does in my head.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@fuzzyorangabear: did you read female misogynist pigs?
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BabyJane
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
HGB always reminded me of some flamboyant character straight out of a Jacqueline Susann novel. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad?
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Trashtastic
01/14/09

@BabyJane: Either way, you bet your ass it's fabulous.
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emilyanne
01/14/09

@BabyJane: oh oh that is so true, as I said elsewhere I never really knew who she was growing up in the UK so I used to see pictures and think oh it's that crazy plastic surgery lady but Jacqueline Susann makes so much more sense.

ps I am sad that you dropped being Neely O'Hara, I was hoping for some crazed doll-fuelled postings.
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BabyJane
01/14/09

@Trashtastic is sneaking back into your interwebs, stealth l...: That's a given!
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BabyJane
01/14/09

@emilyanne: Ha! No worries. Crazed doll-fuelled postings by me are pretty much a given under any name!
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sportz.star
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Some of her positions on important women's issues: so wrong.

Her "say whatever and disregard the shock value attitude": I like it.

Yeah, she's a relic and had some crazy/wrong/anti-woman ideas, but I can salute that she said what she thought as a woman running a magazine and trying to break down barriers. If only Cosmo would realize where the good was and get rid of the bad, well I might even read it.
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Princess Leela
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
She referred to Oregon Sen. Bob Packwood, accused by 10 women of making unwanted sexual advances, as "poor old Senator Packwood," and scolded one journo, "My darling, would you please remember that he was one of the congressmen who supported legal abortion. He was one of us, so we have to forgive him for being a jerk."

Gloria Steinem, though not in so many words, basically said the exact same thing about Bill Clinton 10 years ago. Discuss. (I'll start off with conceding that yes, I know ... Bill Clinton's sexual advances were not 'unwanted'.)
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bluebears
01/14/09

@Princess Leela: that made me so fucking mad! i really don't have anything else to contribute except my recalled seething anger.
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Princess Leela
01/14/09

@Princess Leela: Well, not the ones he made to Monica, anyway.
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

@Princess Leela: Uh, well the problem with that is that I can see a bunch of sexually aggressive men claiming to support abortion so that they can make unwanted advances at you. It's just wrong.

I don't care if you support abortion, I don't want your hand running itself up and down my backside!!
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emilyanne
01/14/09

@Princess Leela: and actually I have always had serious issues with the pass people give Bill on Monica and the whole 'she wanted it'. She was 20 odd years younger than him, as someone who had a complicated relationship with a 46 year old when I was 23 I can say that it's rarely as simple as that when power and status is involved and I don't and never will give Bill Clinton a pass on this.
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Princess Leela
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: No, of course. I was more interested in the dissonance between this comment being one of the "last straws" that got HGB fired, while Steinem could say what amounts to the same thing and remain an unchallenged feminist icon.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@emilyanne: I have to say not only did I not give Bill Clinton a pass on this it forever tainted my view of Hilary.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/14/09

@emilyanne: Yes, yes, yes and yes. It was definitely not as simple as it was made out to be. I doubt Monica even realized this herself, at the time.
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emilyanne
01/14/09

@bluebears: actually mine too although the events of the last couple of years have begun to change that for me. I don't know the man I was involved with wasn't even married but there was so much pressure in that relationship and looking back on it the moments when I thought I was being the most mature and grown-up were in reality the moments when I was least in control.
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

@Princess Leela: Ah I see where you were going. In that case, no, I wouldn't give Steinem a pass. And I find it strange that no one challenged her on that.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@emilyanne: not to mention the fact he was POTUS if there was EVER an unequal balance of power that was it. I've been slow to warm up to Hilary, yes she is way more likable now that she's not going around calling these women money hungry lunatics or mindless republican plants but i don't trust her and I wouldn't vote for her. it pains me to say that, but there you have it.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: it wasn't just her either. off the top I can think of erica jong, patricia ireland, katrina van huevel (sp?)...
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

@bluebears: Oy. As the daughter of a woman who got fired for reporting her boss for sexual harassment, that just boils my blood. Like I said, that's giving sexually aggressive men license to harass women as long as they pre-empt it with "But I support abortion".
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bluebears
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: yeah, it really just makes me sad now because those women will always have an asterisk next to their names in my mind.
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Princess Leela
01/14/09

@emilyanne: @terribletwenties aka Aesop's Foibles: @bluebears: Yeah, though I threw "it wasn't unwanted" out there to see what everyone thought, I agree with you ladies all around. Underneath the politics of it all, the basic reality is that this was extremely UNPROFESSIONAL behavior. Which should indeed have given any professional woman -- regardless of the POTUS's support for female-friendly public policies -- at least a little pause.
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TheGuvnah
01/14/09

@bluebears: wow, congrats on turning this thread on HGB into your personal anti-hillary manifesto.
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TurtleWexlerKickedMe
01/14/09

@bluebears: but you can't really speak for Monica or assume anything about her emotional position at the time. And no one can understand fully what happens in someone else's marriage. So the fact that you think Hillary is "tainted" is really unfortunate and upsetting to me, but completely indicative of why Hillary faced insurmountable obstacles from an otherwise liberal voting demographic.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@TheGuvnah: oh you're welcome!
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mariamariamaria
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Her legacy is that she was a trailblazer. No, she wasn't perfect, but she had the audacity to use what God gave her to her greatest advantage and to make something of herself and to help women navigate the early years of feminism. Yeah, it was some kooky shit (madcap bachelorette trying to trap herself a man!) but I admire her moxy.
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Mkp-hearts-NYC
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
I think maybe in the earlier era, it was necessary to play "kittenish" and deflect sexual harassment with humor. I'd like to believe that today we are better served by being professionals at work (quenching sexual harassment with a withering glare) and whoever we want to be in private. Frankly I don't want a man I have to play kitten for, but there are men who like kittenish women and women who like being kittenish. Like the actual Bible, Cosmo's dictates don't resonate with everyone.
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Samanthrax
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
"She ran a piece titled "Reassuring News About AIDS" reporting that women whose lovers were neither homosexual, bisexual or intravenous drug users faced little risk. "

Good thing she's a psychic and knows everything the person she is having sex with has done in their life. That, and nobody lies, ever. Smart.
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dianersb was bit by a zombie
01/14/09

@Samanthrax: You mean humanity isn't inherently honest??? What?! I'm so disillusioned.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
She ran a piece titled "Reassuring News About AIDS" reporting that women whose lovers were neither homosexual, bisexual or intravenous drug users faced little risk. Brown said, "We spent such a long time getting sexual equality for women, and just when we're beginning to enjoy ourselves, somebody's got to come along and say sex kills."

Yeah, uh, Ms. Brown? A lot of men will hide the fact that they are gay, bi, or druggies. So, y'know, better safe than sorry. Thanks for the old college try!
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (2009: a space ovumlord): Yeah, and further to that, it's not like straight people CAN'T contract AIDS either. I'd like to know when she ran that piece. Because something that ridiculous sounds like it came straight out of the Reagan era.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: Seriously. Tell all the AIDS sufferers in Africa that.
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margareita metermaid
01/14/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (2009: a space ovumlord): What's Africa? Never heard of it.
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bananaprincess
01/15/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (2009: a space ovumlord):

I bet she was a great boss though. One that you would really work hard for, not just because she was paying your salary and had paid you for your time, you know?
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pandorasmittens
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Wait...I have to put makeup on my AREOLA now? Deflecting sexual harassment with humor brings fun back into my life?
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/14/09

@pandorasmittens: Well, yeah! The mens don't like women whose nipples aren't just the right shade of come-hither mauve, and if you "complain" about "sexual harassment", you're just an old stick in the mud! Now run along, the boss is waiting for his coffee.
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pandorasmittens
01/14/09

@terribletwenties aka Aesop's Foibles: If everyone read "catcall" as "compliment", think about how much happier the world would be!
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
01/14/09

@pandorasmittens: And women would be much better able to get a man if they could just wrap their lil heads around this fact: If a man brushes his hands across your breasts or palms your ass every time you walk by, it's his way of saying, you're so pretty and vivacious, I just can't resist! So, ladies, if this frequently happens to you, rest assured you are doing everything right!
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Macloserboy
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
Oddly, she's like Hugh Hefner's female counterpart in that they were once on the forefront of a cultural struggle that mattered, but once it succeeded, they kinda stayed where they were, unable to move forward and are now slightly embarrassing relics of a bygone era.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@Macloserboy: I agree, except he's lauded everywhere as some sort of icon and she's largely forgotten. oh well. sucks to be a woman. as always.
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Macloserboy
01/14/09

@bluebears: Well, I hate to say it, but he's had the good sense to keep his mouth shut and rest on his laurels, while she tried to stay current and failed miserably.
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bluebears
01/14/09

@Macloserboy: true, he did step away from running the mag in what? the 90s?
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BeckySharper
01/14/09

@Macloserboy: He's definitely tried to stay current. Have you seen his reality show? Both of them embarass themselves by refusing to acknowledge that they're not 25 any longer.
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Macloserboy
01/14/09

@BeckySharper: Well, the sexual revolution and the struggle for women's right obviously coincide but are different. The latter is obviously much more complex and therefore there are more landmines for her to step on and step on them she did. Also, there's a huge difference between having a dumb reality show and making political comments. Can you even find something Hefner has said about AIDs or sexual harassment?
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BeckySharper
01/14/09

@Macloserboy: True. He basically sticks to a party line of "everyone should just fuck their brains out."
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
"Who cares about the incidental boo boos along the way? You'll never find a Cosmo girl who hasn't learned to get what she wants using a few tricks learned between the pages of her bible."

Betsy, I can assure you that no girl, no matter what, wants to contract AIDS. Telling readers that the risk does not exist if you are sleeping with a partner that is gay, bi or an iv-drug user is irresponsible and dangerous.
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EkaterinaBallerina
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: Oy...I forgot to insert the word "unless" in my comment. It should be " the risk does not exist UNLESS you are sleeping with a partner that is gay, bi or an iv-drug user".
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lalaland13
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
I think her legacy is more "girls putting rogue on nipples = open sexuality." Not so, I believe. It's more than that, and you can have a strong sense of your sexuality without having to put a scrunchie on your man's peen.
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BeckySharper
01/14/09

@lalaland13: Also, there were plenty of other writers and feminists promoting women's sexual liberation in ways that didn't include fucking your boss, having sugar daddies, or rouging your nips.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/14/09

@lalaland13: @BeckySharper: But those are the only ways I feel empowered!
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samethingwedoeverynightpinky
01/14/09

@BeckySharper: I have to go teach my class in a minute and should be preparing, but I am sitting here dumbfounded that anyone would ever rouge their nipples. Just, umm why? That's seems like the King (Queen?) of useless ridiculous beauty tips.
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pandorasmittens
01/14/09

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (2009: a space ovumlord):But what about pole dancing classes? Gratuitous plastic surgery? Hot girl on girl action for all the boys to see?

I feel empowered just mentioning these things!
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BeckySharper
01/14/09

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: Besides, wouldn't the rouge rub off on your clothes? What a mess. To say nothing of a dude getting a mouthful of rouge if you get lucky...

@pandorasmittens: You forgot drinking. Especially vagina shots. Those make me feel totally empowered.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
01/14/09

@BeckySharper: I also tried Virginia Slims in an attempt to be empowered but just ended up emphysama'd.
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SarahMC
01/14/09

@EkaterinaBallerina: It makes sense that men like that would support legal abortion - for completely self-serving reasons. Ew, no thanks.
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gherkinfiend
01/14/09

@samethingwedoeverynightpinky: to make them pinker and more aroused looking. It can make your breast look more pert in photos...

But I know this from training as a make up artist. I can't imagine why you'd bother in real life.

(But Spice lip liner by MAC works a treat btw!)
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Trashtastic
01/14/09

@morninggloria:
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Trashtastic
01/14/09

@Trashtastic is sneaking back into your interwebs, stealth like.: DANG IT
://www.dlisted.com/node/28724
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RedVelvetCake
01/14/09

@lalaland13: I'm sure a lot of rogues do like nipples, and probably a lot of women like rogues on their nipples.
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mepo - Robert Cornhole invented it
01/14/09

@RedVelvetCake: Yeah I did until Sarah Palin went rouge, ruining it for nipples and other rogues everywhere.
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Edna Sednitzer
01/14/09

In reply to Sex & The Single Girl: Why Cosmo's Helen Gurley Brown Got Canned
deflecting sexual harassment comments with humor

why? not to confront the harasser directly? that's not very empowering, is it?
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kkatt
01/14/09

@Edna Sednitzer:

Yeah that line struck me as odd as well. What exactly does she mean?
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clevernamehere
01/14/09

@kkatt: I think it is meant as a way of shutting it down without having to go to management. When its just one iffy comment I think humor could kind of shut it down, particularly if their wife or sexual harssment laws are part of the joke.
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