Her comment struck me because it's interesting to see how the feminists of the 60's knew that they were paving the way for women to come in and compete for their jobs & have other women's voices heard better than their own, but they did it anyway because they saw the big picture. They knew that they wouldn't likely see the full immediate effects of their actions but that they were desperately important anyway. They did it for the benefit of everyone who came after them, not for themselves.
It's powerful to think of how selfless these women were. They could have polarized and said to younger generations, "WE did this, what did YOU do?" I feel like they graciously gave future women this gift of not having to always prove ourselves or fight for a position in the world & all they wanted in return was for us to continue being amazing, trying our hardest, taking every opportunity that we're presented with and making feminism a part of us & our every interaction. #gailcollins
"New York Times columnist Gail Collins—the paper's first female editorial page editor—has written a chronicle of the last 40 years of American women's history,"
I had a bit of a tiff with my dad tonight about wages. I'm negotiating a contract and the recruiter's being a knob, trying to lowball me. I'm trying to push him higher, because I've experienced this enough to know that it's rare a number goes that low, even in this economy. I've expressed this to my father, in terms of how women are treated in negotiations (and what I've experienced in the past) and how I hear my guy friends talk about their negotiation tactics, and that's why I'm not jumping at the paltry amount on the table.
He, while usually a pretty reasonable guy, basically accused me of trying to strike a blow for women's rights and in doing so possibly losing out on the contract, or insulting the recruiter, or... I don't know. Bottom line, he seems to think I should've buckled immediately, despite knowing that there's more money on the table and the recruiter's being a shit. Specifically, he said I'm letting feminist leanings interfere with practicality, as though they're distinct elements rather than entwined.
It's been a frustrating evening, and when my own very progressive father can parrot back the "take what you can get, girlie" line at me, it's quite the wake-up call. #gailcollins
Scene: Bf and I in elevator after putting up the laundry in our building. Girl with basket ~ same size as herself full of folded laundry walks in. She pushes button despite huge basket bc of proximity to buttons.
Bf: Oh, I'm so sorry. You should have let me get it.
Girl w laundry: It's ok! It's good for me.
Bf: Ah well, I'm sorry.
Girl: I'm just here staying with my boyfriend. I do his laundry for him, kind of clean up... you know, stuff like that. [cue beaming smile]
Bf and me: [polite chuckle and nod.] Oh, that's nice... have a good night!
[girl gets off on her floor.]
Me: Never. Not in a million years. Don't look at me in that tone of voice.
Bf: Trust me, I know! That's actually kind of sad.
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Now, I can believe that some people genuinely get a kick out of housework and a job well done, but I mean, jeez, really? You're the for-free laundry/housekeeping service? It made my head hurt. #gailcollins
@mb: I'm gonna be honest, since Mr. Honeydew and I have gotten together, I do a lot of the cleaning/laundry... but that's partially because I feel bad because he is ALWAYS stuck cooking and doing the grocery shopping. If we left it up to me, we'd be on a Campbell's soup and toast diet. so yeah, I'm a dork who will be spotted doing her boyfriend's laundry.... but it's because he makes really great eggplant parm, not because I suck. #gailcollins
Gail Collins is cool and I will read this book. On a somewhat petty but not unrelated note:
My options in my home with my male housemate (NOT a significant other) are thus:
1. Be the "housekeeper".
2. Get used to a sticky kitchen counter, dust everywhere, a bathtub with an inch of grime, and shaving clippings all over the sink.
I'm sure my housemate would say we just have different standards of cleanliness. Whereas I would say we have different standards of how our actions affect others. It's not a question of cleanliness. It's a question of being RUDE. By not taking care of a space you share with another human being. And we have collectively as a society encouraged men to be RUDE (not all of them -- my BF is clean and considerate) by allowing them to believe this idea that women just like things to be clean more than they do. #gailcollins
@emfish55: Is it because he doesn't respect you, or because he doesn't see the dirt? I swear, my brothers are, at times, "dirt blind" where it's like the counter literally does not feel sticky to them. They're not waiting for me to clean it up, because they don't think it's dirty. If you like the roommate for all other reasons, how about a housekeeper? If his level of cleanliness is emblematic of how he treats you and the rest of his roommate relationship, I say, kick him to the curb. #gailcollins
@blue2000: Exactly. We live in a society that has invented a bunch of mental handicaps for men. There is no such thing as "dirt blind". Men are also not genetically predisposed to be bad at sweeping, or grocery shopping, or changing diapers, or washing dishes. These are just household chores that a lot of people would prefer not to do. I actually watched my younger brother "learn" to become bad at chores in order to get out of them. He discovered that if he was asked to sweep the kitchen, but just sort of stood there listlessly staring into space and moving the broom around, my mom would sigh, step in, and takeover. Yet the same behavior from me would have resulted in a "lesson" in sweeping. Just like your family has apparently decided your brothers have some magical dirt blindness disease which allows exempts them from both cleaning AND societal standards of cleanliness. That's neat. Where do I get some of this dirt blindness? #gailcollins
So. This is half technical and half political, if you will: I never want to iron in my life. Ever. I have, of course, and I hate it. I've also seen my mother waste entire nights and afternoons ironing clothes for the family, and I don't want to. I am selfish, and bore easily, and I am clumsy with hot things.
If I absolutely need to get the wrinkles out of something, (right here is the technical part) can I invest in a clothes steamer? It looks so much easier. And less dangerous.
Perhaps I should just Teflon-coat all my clothes. #gailcollins
@hydrogen_jukebox: Clothes steamers are great. I actually love ironing, but I'm thinking about getting a steamer just to add to my arsenal. #gailcollins
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I don't have one myself, but my mom does. However, it's some random off brand from the 80s. So sadly I have no advice on that. #gailcollins
I don't know why, but I tend to assume every woman who has reached a point of such power and influence is ... what did she say? ... "some big huge feminist." So it deeply disappoints me to see this:
It just knocks me out that throughout recorded history people believed that women couldn't do stuff and women were inferior. And this ended in my lifetime!
Especially taken among other claims here, it seems she's a shade away from Palin territory when it comes to gender-discrimination denial. That someone who works for a newspaper, one the publishes the expository work of Nicholas Kristof among others, wouldn't realize this thinking has not ended at all is incredibly disturbing.
One of the less important points to be sure, but what especially sticks out to me because I just faced the question is her thinking on marital name change. I chose to keep my name because I am my own person; I haven't changed; I'm not my husband's property and we are married as equals. I felt, for me personally, that both of us maintaining our names declares this. I take pride in seeing "Ms." on my mail. That bit about the mailman is troubling. I'd have raised hell at that post office such as they'd never have seen before. #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I think you have take her context into account here. Yes, there are still lots of huge issues remaining, and she acknowledges that. But her main point there is that when she was 5 years old, the idea that a woman would become a doctor or an astronaut or a professional basketball player -- it wasn't just unusual or marginalized. It was absolutely, laughably, false. She grew up in a world where women COULD NOT do things. And now she lives in a world where even if though there's tons of discrimination and there are assholes who think women can't be funny, or only women can rear kids, or whatever, it is no longer the accepted wisdom that women are simply unable to do the things men do. Now we argue about whether women should do the, or whose fault it is when women are prevented from doing them. But the conventional wisdom is that women are capable of doing just about anything. The problems we deal with are important, but I'm sure watching that transformation during one's lifespan is almost magical. #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I've always thought she was more Palin than Clinton.
This part drives me crazy:
Like, we walked 50 miles and we couldn't wear slacks. And you just don't care! And partly, given the transformation that the world has made, the idea that right now a generation of young women has come into the world without thinking that they can be constrained by their gender—it's such a neat idea I'm perfectly happy to celebrate it.
It's such a neat idea? It's not even a true idea!
I think the female commenters on this site represent a cross-section that is probably wealthier, more educated and more self-aware than the "average" women (I don't know this to be true, just likening the demographic to the "typical" lady mag) and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. we are asked questions as to whether we feel we can ask for more money, or a promotion, or whether we think our bosses are assholes because we're women, we respond in a way that makes evident the fact that not only can we be constrained by our gender but we are constrained by our gender.
@emfish55: Good point. I suppose I just expect someone whom I'm assuming is especially well educated and well read to be more critical. Or maybe it's my glass-half-empty sourpuss outlook? I think I just went into reading this with expectations about what she'd say, which is never a good idea. #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I don't think she's being uncritical. I just think this particular book is about taking a step back and saying "Holy Shit! Way to go, feminism!" Because even though we probably haven't even gotten to the hard part yet, it's pretty awesome the degree to which things changed in the latter half of the 20th century. I don't by any means thing Collins is trying to say Phew, we're done. But I think feminism can use a cheerleader now and then to point out that it has been a worthwhile movement (or movements). If anything, I hope this book inspires women to think positively about attacking the problems we have yet to address. #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I think this is it- she has a glass half full approach. From reading this interview and her book on American women, I don't think she doesn't see the problems, I think she's interested in the whole picture. I'd classify her as a feminist. Until reading the comments, I didn't occur to me that anyone would see her as anything other than a feminist #gailcollins
@emfish55: Well, you're definitely right about feminism needing some positive PR, especially in the wake of that women unhappy-men happy study and the surrounding idiocy. I agree with you in your hopes that the book inspires women to attack ongoing problems, rather than allowing us to rest on the laurels of our foremothers (Is that a word?) or falsely perceive a world in which we're fully equal. But I suppose that's up to the reader, to a large extent. #gailcollins
@clevernamehere: It's not that I don't think she's feminist. I think she herself would say she's feminist (though I don't like the implications of her assuring us she wasn't "some big huge feminist" while in college) and I think her beliefs are largely in line with feminism. But I'm disappointed in what I perceive to be her blindness to some of the realities facing our gender. I should quantify this by saying you've read her book and I haven't, so I'm only criticizing what's here. Maybe I'd be less judgmental if I had read her book for context. Or maybe I'd be less judgmental if I weren't so damn judgmental ;) #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I don't think she is interested in issues so much as the history of women. She's not Gloria Steinmen, she's more like Howard Zinn. #gailcollins
@emfish55: " it is no longer the accepted wisdom that women are simply unable to do the things men do"
You don't work in a male-dominated field, do you? #gailcollins
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Actually, I do. Actually, I work in what some would call a "female ghetto" of a field in which more than 80% of top level management is male. I am well-acquainted with the challenges still out there. But we no longer live in the world that Gail Collins grew up in, and I happen to agree with Collins that there are victories to be celebrated since she was born. I don't completely agree that "it" has "ended". My original comment was intended merely to point out that Collins isn't really the enemy here, and she certainly isn't Sarah Palin. She's just from a different generation and therefore views the current state of affairs differently than we do. That doesn't make her opinion invalid.
And by the by, dismissing my opinion by making an assumption about the kind of person I am and my experiences in the world is the kind of thing that drives these conversations to a grinding hault. I respect your POV, even if I don't agree. But I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt here. #gailcollins
@emfish55: Feminism certainly can use a cheerleader now and then, but I think overly rosy, congratulatory stuff like Collins' sometimes serves to stop progress in its tracks.
"We've come so far!" is what people say when they're arguing that feminism is no longer necessary - that our work is done and we have nothing to complain about anymore. I'd rather not give them the ammunition. #gailcollins
While my boyfriend does not iron, he does cook and clean marvelously. My brother (age 27) does iron, quite well. He has to wear a uniform for work, and his shirts have to be nice and crisp, so he presses them all. My dad irons too. I suspect it may have something to do with having been in military school and the army, and having to keep his own uniforms nice and sharp. I'm a prolific ironer, but I don't really see it as gendered since many of the men in my life are also good at it. Also, I absolutely suck at all other housework.
Also, when I went to college, my mom told me "if you get a boyfriend, never do his laundry." She emphasized this as both a screening tool for eliminating man-children, as well as a setting of boundaries, being a girlfriend rather than a housekeeper. Of course, this doesn't apply to couples who live together and share housework, but I thought it was a brilliant guideline for young women in general. My dad, for the record, does laundry.
@Flackette Goes Retro: I'm a woeful ironer. To be nice I tried to iron my boyfriend's work shirt once, and it looked worse when I was done. He thanked me for trying and re-did it perfectly. He also learned to iron in the military, and now does all of our ironing. It works out very well for me! Kind of ironic that men learn such a stereotypically "housewife" task in the military of all places. #gailcollins
My dad is inordinately proud of the fact that my mother has not ironed a single item of clothing for him over 41 years of marriage. He is a polyester devotee, true, but the point still stands. #gailcollins
@judgingamy: Last week, I arrived at my sister's place to find my brother-in-law sitting at the sewing machine, intensely studying the hemline of a skirt with a seam-ripper in his hand. He was partly waiting for me, intending to ask for some help, but also very bent on figuring it out himself because knows my sister has zero interest in the sewing machine and will never hem or alter her own stuff, no matter how wonky it is. My sister, in fact, was outside grilling dinner.
The whole situation just made me grin. #gailcollins
It does not matter what strides women make in the public sphere if we are not making strides in our personal lives. The second shift will not allow us to live up to our potential in the public sphere. And we can't reach equality in private unless our partners eagerly carry half that load.
And I believe attitudes towards name changing are a real (depressing) indicator of where we stand as a gender. #gailcollins
@SarahMC: Yes, I am of the unpopular opinion that you cannot take your husband's name as a "personal choice" that's just about you and nothing else, because it propagates expectations that all women do the same. And it's just a bullshit unfair unbalanced thing to do. (My husband once went to the ticket agent at the airport to see if we could be seated together, and she looked for me under his last name. When he said no, her last name is __, the female ticket agent said "Oh. She's one of those women." In America, in 2008.) #gailcollins
@JerseyGrrrl: I honestly want to get married JUST so I can keep my own name and challenge people's assumptions. And have a joint "shower" and a feminist ceremony. #gailcollins
@SarahMC: @BeckyIva: I fully agree that revolutions start from the bottom up, but I disagree about the name change.
If/when I get married, I fully intend it to be with a partner who shares equally in those "second shift" responsibilities and who is supportive of my career and personal goals. But if I were to marry my current boyfriend (which is a distinct possibility), I would take his name.
In my own case, I feel very little connection to my last name. I have my dad's name and he left when I was an infant. If I married my current boyfriend, he would be my family and the person I'm building a life with and I would feel more comfortable taking his name than keeping mine. I know its an unpopular choice among many feminists, but its the best decision for me personally.
Do I think there are women out there who take their husband's name because they feel pressured? Yes. But a lot might feel the same way I do, or might even just dislike their maiden name. I believe the personal is political, but in this case, I choose what feels right in my own situation over making a political statement.
That being said, "one of those women"? Really? STFU, ticket lady. #gailcollins
@BeckyIva: One of my biggest regrets was making the whole name thing an issue with my now ex-wife. She was on the fence about it and I pressed her to "just make a decision" even though I didn't particularly care and she finally took my name. I wish I had said "It's your decision, but if you'd like my opinion, just keep yours since the whole name thing is just patriarchal bullshit". But I'm a much better feminist now.
I think now I'd consider taking my wife's name to make a statement (although not an option if I were to marry my current gf since then I'd have the same name as her brother). #gailcollins
@PrettyPolitico: What you have to realize is that "you, personally," are not an island. Your choices are influenced by, and made in, a patriarchy.
Why is it only women with crappy fathers? Or cumbersome surnames? It's not. But women are socialized to have very loose ties with their names, whilst boys/men are socialized to really own their names.
You could always take your mom's surname, or make up a new name with your husband. But even women with horrible fathers usually wait until another man (their husband) claims them and names them. It's not a coicidence. It's patriarchy, baby. #gailcollins
@SarahMC: But women are socialized to have very loose ties with their names, whilst boys/men are socialized to really own their names.
This is so true. I had a "holy shit" moment a few months back when I realized that I have had FOUR LAST NAMES in my life. I had the name I was born with, then my mother decided to change my last name when she married my stepdad, then I changed my last name when I married my ex-husband. I almost didn't change it again, because by that time I realized what a load of gendered horseshit this whole name changing thing was, but then I realized that meant I would be stuck with the last name of the man who had brutalized me for much of my adulthood, and that seemed even less desirable than changing my name yet again.
So I made the choice to change my last name to my husband's last name. Part of it was for the aforementioned reason, and part of it is because I wanted to be the first woman he was married to to share his last name (neither of his previous two wives took his name; he doesn't really care either way). But the whole thing is really so aggravating and frustrating when I think of it on a macro level. Should anything happen to my husband and I, I will not be changing my name again.
FOUR LAST NAMES. WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK? #gailcollins
@SarahMC: I agree with you on a lot of these points. I realize that patriarchy is pervasive and that my choices aren't made in a bubble... there have been a lot of moments where I've had to take a big step back and reevaluate how societal expectations influence my thinking.
But I think its reductive to say that taking your husband's name shouldn't be an option. If we support choice in all other areas of our lives (careers, childbearing, fashion choices, sex work), that are equally affected by the patriarchy, why not here? Its like saying that women shouldn't stay home to raise their children because their choice is influenced by the patriarchy and creates an expectation that all women should do the same. Feminism allows, and SHOULD allow, for the option to choose what is best for you.
I have no connection to my mother's maiden name and even less to one I would make up to share with my husband. In our discussions about this, boyfriend has offered to take my name or hyphenate but I would rather take his because I associate my last name with an unpleasant childhood and his sounds better with my first name. If I loved my last name, I would definitely keep it, and if my boyfriend had the same issues with his name, we wouldn't take his.
I made this decision not because I'm waiting to be "claimed and named", or because I'm letting my husband define who I am, but because its what I wanted to do. And having that choice is more important than feeling pressured to do what the patriarchy or anyone else expects me to. #gailcollins
@PrettyPolitico: I do think taking your husband's name should be an option. But in our society, right now, names are indicative of power, and only a tiny minority of women decide not to change names when they marry. An even smaller number of men change their names to their wives'. That's not a coincidence. It's a result of centuries of patriarchy. All things are not equal. Little girls grow up expecting to change their names one day; boys do not. #gailcollins
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Oh man, if you think the opinions are split here, try spending some time on any website related to weddings. I didn't really think the name thing was a big deal before I saw how many people just default to "husband's last name" without even thinking about it. And also how much tacky shit is marketed to brides with "Mrs." emblazoned on it in rhinestones. #gailcollins
@whynotshesaid: Speaking of four last names, is there an established protocol for how two hyphenated last name people are supposed to name their children? As in if Steve Smith-Johnson marries Jennifer Williams-Davis, (and assuming both of them keep their names the way they are and don't do another hyphenation), what last name are they supposed to give to their kids?
(I swear I'm not trying to troll. The kids' last name thing has always confused me.) #gailcollins
Why do women date/marry men who can't take care of themselves? I mean, what do these guys do when they're single? They MUST do laundry and cook. I know plenty of single guys who do. I can't tolerate ANYONE who can't take care of themselves/their home.
Do women just marry slobs, or do men get lazy once they're married? #gailcollins
@femme-bot: A lot of the guys I know just let their laundry smolder for as long as they've got clean clothes. Then they'll take it to a landromat with those industrial washers that will hold everything. EVERYTHING. ALL AT ONCE. D:
Cooking isn't terribly necessary these days either. #gailcollins
@anteup: How do they keep jobs if all their clothes are dirty? How much money do they waste on takeout/frozen food? Do women really put up with guys that that?
I'm just so shocked and confused, haha. If I ran into a guy who didn't do his laundry/clean his place/eat real food, I'd run away asap. #gailcollins
@femme-bot: Well, that all depends. The guy I married, we started dating when he was 19, during his freshman year of college. He had some skills, but not everything together all at once yet. I think that was really just a function of his age, because boy can that man cook now!
And he is FAR better at folding laundry than I am. #gailcollins
@femme-bot: Was it you and I going at that other commenter yesterday about blaming women for their own oppression?
Now this... this is one area where I WISH women would stop rewarding helplessness and unintentionally perpetuating sexism. Stop partering with lazy men who are domestically useless! #gailcollins
@SarahMC: Yup, that was me.
I just don't understand it. Clearly, the second shift harms women, and lots of women recognize that their S.O. is domestically useless, why do they put up with it?
Either partner with someone who is a grown up, or make them be a grown up. That's what "domestics" are about, being a grown up. #gailcollins
@femme-bot: I think most just absorb the idea that they are failures if they don't "find a man," no matter how demanding/whiny/sexist/whatever. So they put up with it because hey - at least they're not alone. Blech! #gailcollins
@SarahMC: That's depressing. I'll take singledom and no second shift over marriage to a man-child.
We really need to get away from the idea that marriage is what we're "supposed" to do. Down with the life script! #gailcollins
@femme-bot: What I have noticed happening is this:
Man and woman marry or move in together.
Woman wants to show her love, so she takes on a little extra housework to be nice. Maybe she cooks dinner and does the dishes every night.
Woman expects man to adore her for this and do something similar for her.
Man thinks "Sweet! I have a wife that cooks!"
Six to twelve months later, woman flips out because she feel unappreciated.
Man doesn't want to take on his share of work and complains that he thought she liked it.
I don't think its as simple as men are lazy, but I do think a lot of men have a competitive mindset and want to get away with things. They don't necessarily think about how the other person feels all the time. They take advantage of nice without realizing
I think everyone should divide chores like roommates the second they move in together. #gailcollins
10/28/09
It's powerful to think of how selfless these women were. They could have polarized and said to younger generations, "WE did this, what did YOU do?" I feel like they graciously gave future women this gift of not having to always prove ourselves or fight for a position in the world & all they wanted in return was for us to continue being amazing, trying our hardest, taking every opportunity that we're presented with and making feminism a part of us & our every interaction. #gailcollins
10/28/09
Shouldn't that be 50 years? #gailcollins
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He, while usually a pretty reasonable guy, basically accused me of trying to strike a blow for women's rights and in doing so possibly losing out on the contract, or insulting the recruiter, or... I don't know. Bottom line, he seems to think I should've buckled immediately, despite knowing that there's more money on the table and the recruiter's being a shit. Specifically, he said I'm letting feminist leanings interfere with practicality, as though they're distinct elements rather than entwined.
It's been a frustrating evening, and when my own very progressive father can parrot back the "take what you can get, girlie" line at me, it's quite the wake-up call. #gailcollins
10/27/09
Scene: Bf and I in elevator after putting up the laundry in our building. Girl with basket ~ same size as herself full of folded laundry walks in. She pushes button despite huge basket bc of proximity to buttons.
Bf: Oh, I'm so sorry. You should have let me get it.
Girl w laundry: It's ok! It's good for me.
Bf: Ah well, I'm sorry.
Girl: I'm just here staying with my boyfriend. I do his laundry for him, kind of clean up... you know, stuff like that. [cue beaming smile]
Bf and me: [polite chuckle and nod.] Oh, that's nice... have a good night!
[girl gets off on her floor.]
Me: Never. Not in a million years. Don't look at me in that tone of voice.
Bf: Trust me, I know! That's actually kind of sad.
-------------------------
Now, I can believe that some people genuinely get a kick out of housework and a job well done, but I mean, jeez, really? You're the for-free laundry/housekeeping service? It made my head hurt. #gailcollins
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My options in my home with my male housemate (NOT a significant other) are thus:
1. Be the "housekeeper".
2. Get used to a sticky kitchen counter, dust everywhere, a bathtub with an inch of grime, and shaving clippings all over the sink.
I'm sure my housemate would say we just have different standards of cleanliness. Whereas I would say we have different standards of how our actions affect others. It's not a question of cleanliness. It's a question of being RUDE. By not taking care of a space you share with another human being. And we have collectively as a society encouraged men to be RUDE (not all of them -- my BF is clean and considerate) by allowing them to believe this idea that women just like things to be clean more than they do. #gailcollins
10/27/09
Have you raised it with him at all? #gailcollins
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If I absolutely need to get the wrinkles out of something, (right here is the technical part) can I invest in a clothes steamer? It looks so much easier. And less dangerous.
Perhaps I should just Teflon-coat all my clothes. #gailcollins
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It just knocks me out that throughout recorded history people believed that women couldn't do stuff and women were inferior. And this ended in my lifetime!
Especially taken among other claims here, it seems she's a shade away from Palin territory when it comes to gender-discrimination denial. That someone who works for a newspaper, one the publishes the expository work of Nicholas Kristof among others, wouldn't realize this thinking has not ended at all is incredibly disturbing.
One of the less important points to be sure, but what especially sticks out to me because I just faced the question is her thinking on marital name change. I chose to keep my name because I am my own person; I haven't changed; I'm not my husband's property and we are married as equals. I felt, for me personally, that both of us maintaining our names declares this. I take pride in seeing "Ms." on my mail. That bit about the mailman is troubling. I'd have raised hell at that post office such as they'd never have seen before. #gailcollins
10/27/09
10/27/09
This part drives me crazy:
Like, we walked 50 miles and we couldn't wear slacks. And you just don't care! And partly, given the transformation that the world has made, the idea that right now a generation of young women has come into the world without thinking that they can be constrained by their gender—it's such a neat idea I'm perfectly happy to celebrate it.
It's such a neat idea? It's not even a true idea!
I think the female commenters on this site represent a cross-section that is probably wealthier, more educated and more self-aware than the "average" women (I don't know this to be true, just likening the demographic to the "typical" lady mag) and EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. we are asked questions as to whether we feel we can ask for more money, or a promotion, or whether we think our bosses are assholes because we're women, we respond in a way that makes evident the fact that not only can we be constrained by our gender but we are constrained by our gender.
10/27/09
Well look! Women can be doctors now, we're lettin' y'all be equal! Why are you still complaining? #gailcollins
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You don't work in a male-dominated field, do you? #gailcollins
10/27/09
And by the by, dismissing my opinion by making an assumption about the kind of person I am and my experiences in the world is the kind of thing that drives these conversations to a grinding hault. I respect your POV, even if I don't agree. But I would appreciate the benefit of the doubt here. #gailcollins
10/27/09
It was a question. #gailcollins
10/28/09
"We've come so far!" is what people say when they're arguing that feminism is no longer necessary - that our work is done and we have nothing to complain about anymore. I'd rather not give them the ammunition. #gailcollins
10/27/09
Also, when I went to college, my mom told me "if you get a boyfriend, never do his laundry." She emphasized this as both a screening tool for eliminating man-children, as well as a setting of boundaries, being a girlfriend rather than a housekeeper. Of course, this doesn't apply to couples who live together and share housework, but I thought it was a brilliant guideline for young women in general. My dad, for the record, does laundry.
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It's called "Tumble Press". :) #gailcollins
10/27/09
"Do you want me to do it?" I asked.
He turned to me with the saddest face and said "Yes, please. I am so so sorry. I know what this means to you politically, and I am sorry."
Great interview!
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10/28/09
The whole situation just made me grin. #gailcollins
10/27/09
And I believe attitudes towards name changing are a real (depressing) indicator of where we stand as a gender. #gailcollins
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If/when I get married, I fully intend it to be with a partner who shares equally in those "second shift" responsibilities and who is supportive of my career and personal goals. But if I were to marry my current boyfriend (which is a distinct possibility), I would take his name.
In my own case, I feel very little connection to my last name. I have my dad's name and he left when I was an infant. If I married my current boyfriend, he would be my family and the person I'm building a life with and I would feel more comfortable taking his name than keeping mine. I know its an unpopular choice among many feminists, but its the best decision for me personally.
Do I think there are women out there who take their husband's name because they feel pressured? Yes. But a lot might feel the same way I do, or might even just dislike their maiden name. I believe the personal is political, but in this case, I choose what feels right in my own situation over making a political statement.
That being said, "one of those women"? Really? STFU, ticket lady. #gailcollins
10/27/09
I think now I'd consider taking my wife's name to make a statement (although not an option if I were to marry my current gf since then I'd have the same name as her brother). #gailcollins
10/27/09
Why is it only women with crappy fathers? Or cumbersome surnames? It's not. But women are socialized to have very loose ties with their names, whilst boys/men are socialized to really own their names.
You could always take your mom's surname, or make up a new name with your husband. But even women with horrible fathers usually wait until another man (their husband) claims them and names them. It's not a coicidence. It's patriarchy, baby. #gailcollins
10/27/09
This is so true. I had a "holy shit" moment a few months back when I realized that I have had FOUR LAST NAMES in my life. I had the name I was born with, then my mother decided to change my last name when she married my stepdad, then I changed my last name when I married my ex-husband. I almost didn't change it again, because by that time I realized what a load of gendered horseshit this whole name changing thing was, but then I realized that meant I would be stuck with the last name of the man who had brutalized me for much of my adulthood, and that seemed even less desirable than changing my name yet again.
So I made the choice to change my last name to my husband's last name. Part of it was for the aforementioned reason, and part of it is because I wanted to be the first woman he was married to to share his last name (neither of his previous two wives took his name; he doesn't really care either way). But the whole thing is really so aggravating and frustrating when I think of it on a macro level. Should anything happen to my husband and I, I will not be changing my name again.
FOUR LAST NAMES. WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK? #gailcollins
10/27/09
I didn't know that "the personal is political" had transitioned to being an unpopular opinion.
*adds to list* #gailcollins
10/27/09
But I think its reductive to say that taking your husband's name shouldn't be an option. If we support choice in all other areas of our lives (careers, childbearing, fashion choices, sex work), that are equally affected by the patriarchy, why not here? Its like saying that women shouldn't stay home to raise their children because their choice is influenced by the patriarchy and creates an expectation that all women should do the same. Feminism allows, and SHOULD allow, for the option to choose what is best for you.
I have no connection to my mother's maiden name and even less to one I would make up to share with my husband. In our discussions about this, boyfriend has offered to take my name or hyphenate but I would rather take his because I associate my last name with an unpleasant childhood and his sounds better with my first name. If I loved my last name, I would definitely keep it, and if my boyfriend had the same issues with his name, we wouldn't take his.
I made this decision not because I'm waiting to be "claimed and named", or because I'm letting my husband define who I am, but because its what I wanted to do. And having that choice is more important than feeling pressured to do what the patriarchy or anyone else expects me to. #gailcollins
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(I swear I'm not trying to troll. The kids' last name thing has always confused me.) #gailcollins
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10/27/09
Do women just marry slobs, or do men get lazy once they're married? #gailcollins
10/27/09
Cooking isn't terribly necessary these days either. #gailcollins
10/27/09
I'm just so shocked and confused, haha. If I ran into a guy who didn't do his laundry/clean his place/eat real food, I'd run away asap. #gailcollins
10/27/09
And he is FAR better at folding laundry than I am. #gailcollins
10/27/09
Now this... this is one area where I WISH women would stop rewarding helplessness and unintentionally perpetuating sexism. Stop partering with lazy men who are domestically useless! #gailcollins
10/27/09
I just don't understand it. Clearly, the second shift harms women, and lots of women recognize that their S.O. is domestically useless, why do they put up with it?
Either partner with someone who is a grown up, or make them be a grown up. That's what "domestics" are about, being a grown up. #gailcollins
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We really need to get away from the idea that marriage is what we're "supposed" to do. Down with the life script! #gailcollins
10/27/09
Man and woman marry or move in together.
Woman wants to show her love, so she takes on a little extra housework to be nice. Maybe she cooks dinner and does the dishes every night.
Woman expects man to adore her for this and do something similar for her.
Man thinks "Sweet! I have a wife that cooks!"
Six to twelve months later, woman flips out because she feel unappreciated.
Man doesn't want to take on his share of work and complains that he thought she liked it.
I don't think its as simple as men are lazy, but I do think a lot of men have a competitive mindset and want to get away with things. They don't necessarily think about how the other person feels all the time. They take advantage of nice without realizing
I think everyone should divide chores like roommates the second they move in together. #gailcollins