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Red-headed bookworm
12/09/08

In reply to
I hope, if they don't have a job, someone employs these men. If they can do this kind of thing, imagine what good they could do for a company. If I was employer, this is the kind of person I would want to hire.
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gherkinfiend
12/09/08

In reply to
The sense of achievement these men will feel for raising money and feeling important and valued for once will do them wonders instead of being judged by people.

Everybody wins here!
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morninggloria
12/09/08

In reply to
Good job, homeless dudes in Detroit. You have succeeded in making me feel like an asshole!
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morninggloria
12/09/08

@morninggloria: (srsly, though... that is pretty neat.)
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bluebears
12/09/08

@morninggloria: ha! first thing I thought was like, oh shit what am I doing for people this xmas I should do more.
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beechbeauty
12/09/08

In reply to
Some of the most selfless people I know have hit rock bottom themselves.
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rmric0.wedding.photographer.and.manny
12/09/08

@beechbeauty: People with lower incomes generally contribute a higher portion of those incomes to charitable causes, as well as donating their time.
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labeled
12/09/08

In reply to
I just had the oddest stab of... rage. On one hand we're snap-judging moderate-to-fab-wealthy celebrities in fur, on the other, this.

What the fuck is wrong with this picture?
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labeled
12/09/08

@labeled: To clarify - obvs didn't mean we're snap judging this. Just that this is where our country is at.

OK, so... socialism for the win. There, I said it.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/09/08

@labeled: the snap judgement contributes nothing but entertainment (technically) - but this story could compel some to give back when, without it, they might not have.

They are two posts but they fall in polar opposite categories.

Spice of life, I say.

Also, these men need to be recognized and honored for their selfless generosity.
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labeled
12/09/08

@Sukie in the Graveyard: No, even despite my clarification, I wasn't clear...

I view Jezebel as a pretty accurate snap judgment of us - of the life and times we live in, at least as it (generally loosely) applies to "me."

And that "life and times"? Srsly fucked. I'm going to briefly channel my 11yo self and just say this:

Mom, it's not fair.
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Sukie in the Graveyard
12/09/08

@labeled: hahaha, ah, now it is clear.

Yes, socialism is awesome.

Also, who's with me on jumping Naomi for the coat and giving it to someone who needs it? (it's her own damn fault for leaving the house without pants.)
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NefariousNewt
12/09/08

In reply to
Perhaps the spirit of the holiday season has not completely disappeared.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/09/08

@NefariousNewt: Indeed, I learned yesterday that the spirit is upon us:
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

In reply to
Thanks, period! Now I'm crying.
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BrutallyHonestBabes (aka Mrs. Sarah.of.a.Lesser.Hobbit)
12/09/08

In reply to
Amazing. Thanks so much for posting this. Something to think about and remember now just now at Christmas.
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Nadja
12/09/08

In reply to
I moved away for grade school this fall, but my sister still lives in Detroit - its stories like this that make me miss it soooo much. Detroit has a shitty reputation, but some of the best, most generous kind people in the world live there.
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stacyinbean
12/09/08

@Nadja: Even Michigan in general. I grew up there and I will say people are just so much nicer and happier to be alive than anyone I've ever come across in Boston, and most of those people have about 1/10th of what people here have.
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TheEternalOptimist
12/09/08

@Nadja: You are so right!!! Us Detroiters get the short end of the stick, due to the media just showing everyone else about the crime here, but not the people. Everytime I go on vacation, I cannot wait to come back home. There's no other place quite like Detroit.
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sarah.of.a.lesser.god (aka Mrs. BrutallyHonestHobbit)
12/09/08

In reply to
I am crying for a good reason now. This is what the season is supposed to be about, not about getting awesome deals on plasma TVs at Wal-Mart. (So says the atheist Jew who loves Christmas)
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
12/09/08

@sarah.of.a.lesser.god (subservient to the ovumlord): I may be a cynical, anti-consumerist, atheist lapsed Catholic, but nothing compares to Midnight Mass. Weirdly, that's the only thing about Christmas that I've ever been keen on.
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Dude, I "de-converted" years ago, but I still love church, especially around big holidays. The music and ceremony are still quite moving to me, even if I don't believe in the dogma.

I saw a great article once, about a small movement of people who aren't Christian (or any kind of theists, really) but still go to services. I can't find it, but it resonated with me.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: Me too; I see my attachment as stemming from my cultural/ethnic background, rather than filling a 'spiritual' need. You may have read something about the Sea of Faith network? Check out Lloyd Geering and Karen Armstrong (I'm sorry, I'm a religious studies geek, and Lloyd founded the department at my university).
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: I think those people are commonly called "Catholics."
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: Sometimes they prefer the term 'Anglican'; my family used the terms interchangeably (depending on whose Mass was latest).
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Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane
12/09/08

@Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith: Midnight Mass is improved even more if you do the tradition my friends and I have started, and go drunk.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane: yeah right, two glasses of mulled wine and I'm passed out by O Come All Ye Faithful.
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane: Now I know what I'm doing for Christmas Eve.
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Vivien Smith-Smythe-Smith
12/09/08

@Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane: I stayed in Wellington over Christmas last year, and my (heathen) boyfriend came to Midnight Mass with me. It was a real eye-opener for him, and he's totally excited to go again this year. The Sacred Heart schoolgirl in me still finds the idea of getting drunk before Mass incredibly sacrilegious, but I do always take an extra big sip during Communion (my Godmother is a Eucharistic Minister at our parish church back home, and she's told me about how they pretty much draw straws to see who's going to have to finish the wine off, so I figure I'm doing them a service).
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AuntieEm (robots from the year 2000 > zombies)
12/09/08

In reply to
that's beautiful
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sportz.star
12/09/08

In reply to
This made me feel like I never give enough last night and again today. Mission: find more, better ways to give. :) What a wonderful example of charity.
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returnofthemac
12/09/08

In reply to
Here's where I'll be sending money to this Friday!

Doreen Webb at 313-962-9446 (ext. 230) or at webbdmi@comcast.net. ...the contact from the article
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Samanthrax
12/09/08

In reply to
I am printing this out and giving it to every dumbass Em Effer who gives me shit for being nice to homeless people. You don't know shit about them, or their circumstances.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@Samanthrax: Those em effers probs don't give ANYTHING to charity, if I know the sort of em effer you're talkin about.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@Samanthrax: what kind of scrooge tries to make you be mean to homeless people?
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: libertarians, I'm guessing.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@SarahMC: charity just creates market failures, you know.
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Samanthrax
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: LOTS of people I've known over the years have. People I wouldn't exactly call friends have pissed and kicked homeless people.

It's not as uncommon as I would like to think it is... to have not just a lack of respect for the homeless, but I desire to shit on their existance.
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returnofthemac
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: I work in the er and I get more shit than you would think about trying to find homeless guys new clothes, clean socks, new boots....etc, etc. If they're old or incapacitated I've been known to wash them down right there on the stretcher.

I once tried to call a national chain shoe store to get a new pair of boots for a guy one time and they told me that they cut the soles on the bottom of their outdated shoes so that people can't return them for money....yeah I had to throw up.

gonna stop now cause I could rant about this all day.
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@SarahMC: I have mild libertarian leanings, but I'm also human, which means I care about other human beings needing a sandwich, a few bucks, or a hug. I got seriously pissed off when a former co-worker gave me a disgusted lecture because I slid a cup of milk and a sandwich (which we would have thrown out anyway) to a homeless woman.

"I can't believe you'd do that. They did it to themselves. You're just enabling."
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: I hope you weren't offended by my off-the-cuff comment. All sorts of people are unsympathetic to the homeless. Even "Christians" who want to "keep the Christ in Christmas" can treat homeless people like subhuman scum; it's terrible and ignorant and rage-inducing. Meanwhile, these homeless men who have NOTHING are giving more of themselves than the vast majority of people who live lives of material wealth. Sad.
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: Somewhat related, your post made me think of a Toby Keith song where the very right-leaning Keith sings about how he thinks everyone should work but he gives homeless people sandwiches (or something) because he's human. It's bizarrely touching.
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@SarahMC: No, dude, it's totally cool. Honestly, I find that I don't get along with many folks who call themselves libertarians, even though we do agree on some ideas. Just like the stereotype of an asshole conservative, the stereotype of the asshole libertarian is around for a reason, unfortunately--the most vocal of 'em are usually big jerks.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@sportz.star: Toby Keith is a Democrat!
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@sportz.star: I love the notion that "eveyone should work," that allows people to continue ignoring the plight of the homeless. Yeah, YOU gonna hire a homeless man with no permanent address when he comes in asking for a job application? Substance abuse issues and mental illness abound; you think homeless people can just waltz into a place of business, ask for a job, and his/her problem is solved? Most of my well-off, college-educated friends can't get an interview but the man who's been living under an overpass is supposed to "get a job" like they're readily available or something.

/end rant
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evil_green_eyes
12/09/08

@Samanthrax: I think people tend to forget we're always only a disaster or two away from being homeless ourselves.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
12/09/08

@Samanthrax: I used to pass the same homeless man every day on my way to work when I lived in Boston and actually walked places. He stood outside a convenience store, and every morning I would go in and buy him a sandwich and a coffee. One morning, I did not have any money and couldn't afford the coffee and sandwich and he cursed me out and yelled at me as I walked by. I had been buying him the food every single day for more than 6 months, and one stupid time I couldn't afford it.

I was so hurt that I actually cried when I got to work. I felt awful that I had been trying to be nice to this man, and was spending some of the very little money I had on him and he made me feel so badly about the one time that I couldn't. I don't know where this story was going, but I have been reluctant to be nice to homeless people since, and I know that I shouldn't have let one man spoil it for me.
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Samanthrax
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: Well, one time I was at a McDonalds drive through and a gave a homeless man a few bucks. He reached into his pocket, smiled at me, and brought out probably close to a thousand dollars in cash. I was furious. He had more money than I did, and In fact I doubt he was homeless. But- they aren't all unnapreciative. You can't let that one experience shape your opinion of the homeless population.
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Samanthrax
12/09/08

@evil_green_eyes: So true- and that goes for everything! Especially things like poverty/homelessness, even the handicapped. My one friend called me the other day laughing because a person running in the special olympics had their prosthetic leg fall off and they tripped over it. I seriously hung up on them. You could be in a car accident tomorrow. You could die, lose a leg, be paralyzed, whatever!

I know some serious shitheads, this thread is making me realize this!
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: if you are going to give you should probably do it with the expectation that the person is mentally ill, going to use the money for drugs, and will not see you in a saintly light/feel grateful towards you. if you don't want to give under those conditions, you should just give to a shelter or a homeless peoples' rights organization.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@SarahMC: I'm all about the "housing first" model. How can someone get their lives together, especially if they are dealing with mental illness, addiction, trauma, etc. if they don't even have a shower and a safe place to sleep?
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: Really? O.o

He always seems so TEAM AMERICA FUCK YEAH in his songs, very much a caricature of an ultra-red state dude.
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@Samanthrax: Yeah, maybe (probably) that guy was a scammer, but also a lot of homeless people don't have bank accounts. So all the cash they have they have on them. It makes them serious targets for robbery. I mean, if he is trying to save up money for down payment and one months rent, a thousand dollars isn't so much...
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J.D.Regent
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: I know! I just learned that this election cycle. I believe he is what we refer to as "blue dog Democrats" or Dixie Dems.
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Red-headed bookworm
12/09/08

@returnofthemac: That's horrible! They couldn't even donate them to at least Goodwill or something? What a waste. I bet they just throw them away, too. Not only could someone use them, now they are taking up space in a landfill.
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yvanehtnioj
12/09/08

@Cafezinha: Well he's a Democrat from an ultra-red state. Oklahoma. Went more for McCain than any other state; one of the only places on the map to get redder in '08 than in '04. So it shapes the Dems just like the Repubs.

/can you tell I went to college in OK?
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Red-headed bookworm
12/09/08

@SarahMC: Ah yes, this comes from the same people who look at poor people and say they could do better if they "just work hard enough." Really? What part of the person who is working two jobs just to maybe pay bills isn't working hard enough? Is the person cleaning at hotels or serving you your food "not working hard enough"?
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returnofthemac
12/09/08

@Red-headed bookworm: yes, they do throw them away...with cut soles. I still can't wrap my mind around that years later.
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farmersdaughter
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: I think TK is more of a self-identifying Dem than a voting one. His family was all Democrats and I think that is how he is registered, but he has talked a little about how his grandfather would roll over in his grave for voting Repub. So yeah, hes a Blue Dog. Hahahha. (Full disclosure, so am I. Although I vote Dem 90% of the time.)
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Little Time Bomb
12/09/08

@returnofthemac: please please name this chain store because this makes me so damn sick I could cry.
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southernbitch
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: i think i'm going to make a t-shirt with that slogan on it.
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@SarahMC: I couldn't agree more. A substantial percentage of the homeless population are un-medicated schizophrenics. The number of hurdles for that population to live a "normal" work-a-day life are just incomprehensible to me.

[Also, in the song, it's "I believe that every able soul should work" - and so do I, but there are many many who are just unable, and we (society) need to help them.]
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returnofthemac
12/09/08

@Little Time Bomb: I really wish I could but I fear retribution from the man.
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sportz.star
12/09/08

@J.D.Regent: And my love for him grows more!
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Cafezinha
12/09/08

@evil_green_eyes: This. Who's to say I couldn't be the next one out there? I don't have but a high school education, don't have a license, and not many skills, and if Sr. 'Zinha were to lose his job or die, I would be hard-pressed to support our daughters. I'm terribly lucky, and I know this. Not everyone is.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

@returnofthemac: You're allowed to complain about companies on the Internet; nobody will hurt you I promise!
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yvanehtnioj
12/09/08

@farmersdaughter: @J.D.Regent: Sorry guys, that's not Blue Dog, that's Yellow Dog (or Dixiecrat). Blue Dogs work within the framework of the Democratic party to make it more "centrist" or "southern" or whathaveyou, but voting Dem b/c your family always has (grandfather rolling over in grave, etc) is a Yellow Dog thing - party before beliefs. Yellow Dogs may be conservative personally, and probably live in part of the country where the Dems that they vote for are conservative, but the tagline is "I'd vote for a yellow dog if it was on the Democratic ticket." The difference is subtle, but basically Reagan Dems are blue dogs, yellow dogs do not vote Repub. Evah.
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gherkinfiend
12/09/08

@evil_green_eyes: They say you are never more than two paychecks away from being homeless...
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farmersdaughter
12/09/08

@yvanehtnioj: Yeah, and he has voted Repub - I don't have time to find the interview, but he isn't a Yellow Dog. He's a Blue Dog. And Dixiecrat was a separate party, which ended up folded into the Repubs, mostly, after Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrat bid for Pres in 1948 failed. I know people still use the term to refer to southern Dems, but its a little disingenuous.
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yvanehtnioj
12/09/08

@farmersdaughter: I don't think it's disingenuous at all, but that's because the only time I really hear the term (Dixiecrat) it's someone self-identifying. And it's not to refer to all Southern Dems, just a subset.

Either way, if Toby Keith has voted R, then you're right, and he's more of a Blue Dog. I was working off that pseudo-quote about his gramps.
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farmersdaughter
12/09/08

@yvanehtnioj: Yeah, I understand where your coming from, not trying to attack. I'm pretty sure the article with the quote about his grandpa also said he had switched his voter registration to Independent out of disgust with the political choices he had and the hate in the campaigns this year.
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yvanehtnioj
12/09/08

@farmersdaughter: Hah! Until Barack won, and then he was all over the place with "He's the best candidate we've had in a loooong time, and I'm saying that as a Democrat!" Sure, pal. And this after the rah-rah war songs right after 9/11 and then again when Iraq was still popular with his fan base?

Maybe he's neither Yellow Dog nor Blue, neither Reagan Dem nor Dixiecrat. Could be he's just an opportunist.

:\
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Mama Penguino
12/09/08

@TheVaginaWig: VW: I worked in a homeless shelter when I was younger and I know it's hard understanding why that man yelled at you when you had shown him nothing but kindness. Extraordinary kindness, at that. Other folks have mentioned mental illness and I'll say probably 75% of the people who came through our shelter were mentally ill or struggling with unimaginable problems. I've been on the receiving end, too, of some pretty awful things so please know that this man had no doubt come to depend on you in a certain way and you "letting him down" triggered some elementary anger he had about his circumstances or some such thing. Or, he could have simply been out of his mind and that's how he reacts to everything that irritates him. The bottom line is you perform some serious mitzvot and I applaud you.
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SarahMC
12/09/08

In reply to
Wow. How selfless.
How bad off must a family be to accept money from the homeless?!
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