domestic abuse - Jezebel

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princesscrunchy
07/24/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
After months of lurking on this site, I am compelled to post. I have a lot of mixed feelings about this thread. Admittedly I was more judgmental about abuse before I became a victim myself. My bff was/is still in an abusive relationship; she often left him to stay with me. She always went back and I never understood why. Years later, I do. My ex was good-looking, charming, charismatic - all classic abuser traits. Anyway, like the rest of you, there was no way I was going to admit to the world that I, a smart, educated feminist, was in an abusive relationship? Heck, we were the perfect couple! My family ignored all signs, and in true repressive fashion, told me I was "exaggerating" & "dramatic". Yup, even after a trial and he was sent to jail they maintain that my relationship with him was merely a "bad decision". There is a lot of denial, shame and lack of education about abuse out there and so-called feminists like this don't help any of us!
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whynotshesaid
07/24/09

@princesscrunchy: I know this is late but I wanted to say thanks for sharing this. You are among a whole mess of women who have gone through similar things. Also, good for you for getting out, and for taking him to court and having him put in jail! (I wish I did the same.) I am sorry about your family, though. Please know they are wrong, and you are right.
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Eriu
07/24/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
"I took a pounding for asking: Why didn't she leave?"

It's interesting that she's been criticizing victims this whole time and is now trying so very hard to portray herself as one.

(Megan, amazing job, as usual. Thank you.)
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franzen
07/24/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
I became obsessed with the Rihanna case this winter, when I picked up my first boyfriend. It wasn't until a month or two ago that I figured out why this hit me so hard: I was being abused at the time. I knew exactly how it felt to be made to cower, to be afraid for my life, to have to justify myself, to make fake phone calls in order to escape. The kicker was figuring out, slowly, that I had been sexually assaulted, realizing that I had PTSD, and then having my friends and mother turn around and tell me that I couldn't really have been assaulted because I didn't say "no" enough or that my fears were irrational or it was all okay because I was going to be happy again someday. Duh. How easy!

I am grateful every fucking day that I didn't realize I was being abused until afterward, because if I had had to live both through all that happened (which, to be clinical about it, was not exactly the worst-case scenario and I was very lucky) and the knowledge that I would have to deal with this shit if I dared to open my mouth, I think I would have given up. The hardest part was not the abuse; the abuse is a hazy, strange nightmare, something that I know happened but no longer need to live through each day. I know, now, what to look for, how to identify an abuser, how to better protect myself. I have made my peace with the fact that my former boyfriend is, essentially, the thing under the bed that goes bump in the night.

The part where I know now that it's hopeless to even try to explain, to ask my friends not to cut me off when I try to say "I WAS ABUSED," to have to justify my every decision when I discuss this, to be fucking grateful when someone I know calls this person an asshole or tells me it wasn't my fault: I don't know how to make sense of that. My abuser was the rare kind who was also a sadist, and I can accept and understand that, because it explains what happened to me. But how am I supposed to make sense of shit like this, that says this is my fault, that even what I did right wasn't enough when I didn't even fucking know what was happening to me?

To borrow from Aaron Sorkin: Lady, I'm not embarrassed that I was abused, nor am I ashamed that I was assaulted. You fucking are. The world fucking is. And that is the greatest problem here, beyond what I did and did not do, beyond what my abuser did to me: it's you.
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Megan
07/24/09

@franzen: I can only say: congratulations on recognizing what you deserve and getting out. It's not an easy thing, and fuck anyone who thinks it is.
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franzen
07/24/09

@Megan: Thank you. It sounds silly, maybe, but that went straight to the heart.

It baffles me: before I was on the other side of the boundary, I always knew that there were things I didn't fully understand, such as, say, domestic abuse and sexual assault; ergo, I always figured the best I could do was listen to those who had experienced such horrors, be one more voice saying It's not your fault, and advocate while accepting that I didn't, actually, know what they'd been through and therefore I ought to count my blessings.

Why Linda Hirshmann can't get this idea into her head I will never understand.
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Penny
07/24/09

@franzen: You're incredible. I will never understand the pain you've felt. I'm just some random person, but.....wow, I am just so glad you've reached a place where you can recognize....I don't know, the shit. I think saying "I was abused" would be so incredibly hard. Just, not caring if you received sympathy, or pity, or pride, or anything--just saying it, that must be such a thing for you.

I don't know, I probably sound like a total ass, but I really enjoyed reading your comment.
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pansyriot
07/24/09

@franzen: I just want to say congratulations on getting out as well. I was stuck in an abusive (emotional, psycholical, physical, sexual, you name it) friendship/relationship for 6 years and I know how hard it is to recognise that you've been abused. I got out of that situation two years ago, and it's only been recently that it's actually hit me how bad things were. People don't realise how it builds up and abusers chip away at yr bounderies til they've got you controlled.

Even though I know, technically, it's not my fault, it is so hard to accept that I put up with so much and didn't figure stuff out earlier. Hirshman does not help.
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whynotshesaid
07/24/09

@franzen: HUGS. SO HARD. I am so happy you got out safely.
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margot123
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
While I certainly don't agree with Linda's Obama comparison, I think her article raises some important points.

I'd be lying if I said I never smugly sat in judgment of the women I read about in magazines or see on Oxygen specials. I don't think I'm alone, either. Of course, I'm both oversimplifying and underestimating the complications of leaving a spouse or serious partner-- legal, financial and safety issues all arise. But at a certain point, when the abuse is consistent and life-threatening, is it wrong to demand some accountability from the woman? Of course, people will respond by saying "you can't understand unless you've been through it." But that statement implies that any woman, no matter how strong or secure, can find herself in an abusive relationship, unable to let go. And the honest reason why I feel a tinge of smugness when reading battered wives' stories? I simply don't think I would ever be in that situation. I really believe I would end it.

Then again, I can't be sure. I've never personally known any woman who's been abused. But I don't think it's fair to beat this writer up for having the courage to give voice to what I think many women are thinking.
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angryyoungwoman
07/24/09

@margot123: Any woman can be in an abusive relationship, that's the point. Often we're given the view that it's a class problem, but DV permeates all classes about equally. Women who've previously been abused (raised in abusive homes, been victims of violence) are more likely to be abused again, but ANY woman can be in an abusive relationship.

It's not like he starts out acting like an abusive asshole. You love him, you form a good working relationship, and the abuse creeps in slowly. He might say or do a few things. He might get violent once in a while, but otherwise it's like any other relationship and you are in love and you know he'd never hurt you if you hadn't done whatever you'd done to set him off, or if he wasn't so stressed from work, or if the kids hadn't been so bad, or if finances weren't so tight. But it keeps getting worse.

Eventually, you get out or you die.
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whynotshesaid
07/24/09

@margot123: All I am going to say is that I was smug about other abused women myself, up until the day it occurred to me that most people aren't in relationships with men who call them cunts and tackle them for daring to disagree with them.

And you probably do know a woman who has been abused, but odds are, she's picked up on your smugness and is concealing her experiences from you.
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SylvanSylph
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
The biggest single reason I stayed with my abusive boyfriend for four years was that I would have been mortified if anyone had discovered that I, an assertive, intelligent, educated woman, still "allowed" such a thing to happen to me. Almost three years later, I am still too embarrassed to tell my own mother about it. Shaming and stigmatizing abuse victims not only doesn't help them, it actively makes their situation worse. Megan, I understand why you feel a need to keep responding to this woman, but I am starting to think she's a troll in the world of feminism- hopefully no one thinks she's serious or has any purpose other than frustrating people.
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Megan
07/24/09

@SylvanSylph: She's a former Women's Studies prof and a "serious feminist scholar." If she was just a troll, I'd just mock her.
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Penny
07/24/09

@Megan: Why can't a "serious feminist scholar" be a troll? If she were to pop up as some random internet commenter saying the same shit, wouldn't we peg her as such?

Degrees and accolades mean nothing if you're a fucking asshole.

I don't know, sometimes the over-academic irritate me as much as the ignorant. They're just as clueless.
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kaiwhakamarie
07/24/09

@SylvanSylph: Are we the same person? That was exactly my reason for staying, too, or one of the main ones.

My family still doesn't know, either.

Linda Hirshmann and the BS she spews on topics like this are so detrimental to women everywhere. She is the very epitome of troll.
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CubeRootOfPi
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
Abused women are told that it's their fault for having caused their significant other to abuse them. If they stay in the relationship, they're told it's their fault for not being a strong enough woman and for allowing their kids (if any) to be traumatized. And now if they DO leave, then - on top of people telling them that they're terrible people who can't maintain relationships (and depriving kids of a father, if kids are involved) - some Hirshman-esque "feminist" is going to tell them that it's their fault for not leaving quickly enough.

Geez.
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whynotshesaid
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
What a brilliant piece of writing. I particularly liked this line:

"Like most people who've never been the victim of a crime — particularly a violent crime — she believes the world is a rational ordered place where if you just do the "right" thing, nothing bad will happen to you."

Hirshman honestly believes she is helping, but what she fails to understand is that her "tough love" approach is not exactly novel. Does she not realize that women (and men, too, I imagine) who are abused are asked why they stay whenever they do open up about what's going on? And that it doesn't do jack shit to encourage women to leave?

I mean, Christ, if a bit of questioning and some good old fashion shaming was all it took to get women out of abusive relationships, then the number of women in those relationships would be miniscule. The fact that this is not so just shows how wrong her assertions on the matter are.

She is so out of touch when it comes to this issue. It's embarrassing.
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Elizabth_Bennet
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
I highly recommend "Strange Piece of Paradise" by Terri Jentz. It's very dark but gives a much fuller understanding of abuse. She talks to several, obviously smart, capable, TOUGH, women who were abused in their relationships with this man and it gives a window into their experience and how they got into it in the first place.
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whynotshesaid
07/23/09

@Elizabth_Bennet: Thanks for the recommendation. I will have to pick it up. I for the longest time refused to acknowledge that I was being abused, because I was a smart, tough feminist, so therefore I couldn't POSSIBLY be a victim of abuse. One of the things that has helped me heal the most is hearing stories from women who have been in similar situations. It makes me feel less broken and damaged.
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franzen
07/24/09

@Elizabth_Bennet: I'll have to look into that.

For any victim of abuse, I recommend Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men. It was the book that allowed me to understand that I had been abused and taught me why my intuition was to flee the relationship within the first days. It was the kind, compassionate talk I should have gotten from a friend or mother, and, strangely, it was written by a man.

And for women who haven't been abused, it will teach you how to identify an abuser straightaway. Seriously, I just adored that book. (The fact that he addressed gay couples endeared him to me even more. Recognition that love and, sadly, abuse spread beyond stereotypes: a winner is you, Mr. Bancroft.)
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whynotshesaid
07/24/09

@franzen: OMG, the Lundy Bancroft book was amazing. I read it in one day and cried half the time I read it. Everyone should read it.
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CubeRootOfPi
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
Are women different from African-Americans when it comes to writing their own destiny, as the president powerfully expressed it? Apparently.

Ms. Hirshman, "women" and "African American" are not mutually exclusive.
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sshacker
07/23/09

@CubeRootOfPi: Thank you!!!
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whynotshesaid
07/23/09

@CubeRootOfPi: I read statements like that, and I totally understand why many women of color feel excluded by mainstream feminism. It's like they don't exist in the minds of some of these women.
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Edited by whynotshesaid at 07/23/09 7:18 PM whynotshesaid was starred whynotshesaid was unstarred

Megan
07/24/09

@whynotshesaid: Please don't equate Hirshman's racial insensitivity with mainstream feminism. Pretty please.
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whynotshesaid
07/24/09

@Megan: I'm not - look at my icon! - but I can see how a woman of color who sees something like this, which pops up way too often for my liking, would feel alienated from it.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
"Are women different from African-Americans ..."

Okay - quick. As Rihanna is a woman of color, let's start with what's wrong with this sentence, Linda.
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vivianthelibrarian
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
Her logic in her Obama speech argument is so twisted I can barely follow it. When, for a quick moment I can see the point she's trying to make, it's so stupid it makes me rage.
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J.D.Regent
07/23/09

@vivianthelibrarian: I'm especially confused by her separation of "women" from "african americans."
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J.D.Regent
07/23/09

@vivianthelibrarian: it's interesting too because didn't obama just say the press only covers the part of speeches when he tells A-A crowds to take personal responsibility and not when he talks about the structures that make it so hard. so i dont' think she is right that women are treated differently on the topic of toughening up and dealing. Remember the uproar over Bill Cosby? i think something similar could be going on here, where OF COURSE there are "tough love" conversations happening on a personal level with individual people in abusive situations, but l. hirschman seems to be mistaking the conversations and life adjustments necessary to make that move with the question "why won't she leave?" I mean if you are making that a personal query -- why won't THIS particular victim leave this abusive relationship, it could be helpful. But as a head shaking tsk tsking feminist "tough love" column no, it's not that fucking helpful.
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vivianthelibrarian
07/23/09

@J.D.Regent: Also, isn't there a stark difference between 'toughening up' and dealing with being abused and 'toughening up' and taking personal responsibility? Taking responsibility is a positive thing, succumbing to abuse is not. Therefore, ur agrument? It's bad.
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andBegorrah
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
I can't judge her (see what I did there) for that head shot though. If Camille Paglia had crowned me heir to the throne of Misogynfemiprivilecrazypantsot... I'd show it off a bit too.
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Edited by andBegorrah at 07/23/09 6:25 PM andBegorrah was starred andBegorrah was unstarred

SBJ
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
It doesn't appear that anyone in this discussion has anything helpful to say in a concrete matter for women being abused at all.

Countering "Leave for your own safety! Leave to keep your kids safe!" (non-cunty feminists, do-gooders) with "Leaving an abuser is real hard to do, harder than you will ever know!" ("science") isn't very constructive. Neither is "Just fucking LEAVE YOUR GODDAMN ABUSER ALREADY, dummy!" or "It's their choice, dummies" (Linda Hirshman, cunty feminists, Libertarians).

Just kidding about the Libertarians.

Wake me when someone figures out an effective way to help women extract themselves from abusive relationships; I'll be ready with my sleeves rolled up and a knife in my boot.

Also, it's kind of funny in that totally tacky way that people are fighting over this, especially when there are no clear winners, i.e. any measurably successful way of helping women leave their abusers.
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SomeAuthorGirl
07/23/09

@SBJ: Just as no two women are the same, no two solutions are going to be the same. It's just as easy to say that there are lots of effective ways to support women in leaving their abusers; there isn't a Unified Theory. I can pretty much unequivocally say that shame isn't it, however.
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Elizabth_Bennet
07/23/09

@SBJ: I think the answer, as far as helping women leave their abusers, is prevention. Teaching women what behavior is acceptable and what isn't, the early signs of domestic abuse (aka BEFORE he hits you). More important that we DO NOT and SHOULD NOT have to accept certain behavior, tailor ourselves to what a man wants us to be, keep silent, be "nice" "sweet" and "supportive" at all times no matter how we're being treated...I have watched strong, smart women get into relationships with these types of men and accept all kinds of shitty controlling behavior because they're afraid he'll leave them, never considering whether THEY want to leave HIM. It won't solve the problem (aka the culture than encourages and excuses the man's crime and most importantly the douchebag himself) but it's a start.
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SylvanSylph
07/23/09

@SBJ: I'm going to argue that the compassion and understanding expressed by "Leaving an abuser is real hard to do, harder than you will ever know!" is fairly constructive when directed at abuse victims. I think the best solution is simply educating women from a very early age (many abuse victims, Rihanna included, are very young and genuinely may never have learned about cycles of abuse before) what abuse is, what isn't normal in a relationship, and that it's (increasingly) difficult to leave an abusive relationship. Honestly, if someone had told me at an early age that if a man hits you, he WILL do it again, and that it is in no way acceptable for a man to hit a woman in any situation ever, it might have saved me a lot of agony.
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Shamrockette
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
...feminists try to shame women out of abusive relationships by telling them that it's their fault (and a betrayal of feminism) for staying.

So basically Linda Hirshman expects us women to be cold, heartless bitches when it comes to the well-being and safety of feminist women in abusive relationships, am I right? Just give them a dose of 'tough love' and tell them to suck it up and get out. That's exactly what we should do for someone who's emotionally compromised!

I'm sorry, but as a feminist with very strong emotions and cares about people who are very close to me, she's not helping the cause; she's hindering it. And she shouldn't even call herself a feminist if she wants to put the blame on the victims. The blame should be on the men who think it's okay and acceptable to push his lover around with the sole purposes to control, manipulate and hurt.
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Edited by Shamrockette at 07/23/09 6:17 PM Shamrockette was starred Shamrockette was unstarred

stacyinbean
07/23/09

@Shamrockette: I'm trying to figure out where she gets that idea, in my experience feminists (male or female) are some of the last people who would attempt to shame a victim or blame a victim for staying. That's what SHE is doing, and I don't think I'd call her a feminist after reading that shit. Awesome piece Megan!
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Cerridwen
07/23/09

@stacyinbean: A big part of feminism, for me, is compassion. And compassion figures nowhere in Hirshman's approach.
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andBegorrah
07/23/09

@Shamrockette: Her version of feminism seems to be in reaction to the so-called "sob sister"/"victimhood" version and, oddly, in favor of attaining a male model of power by, well, acting like men. In addition to the myopic callousness of her stance in regards to other women - and her inability or refusal to acknowledge her own privilege - her attitude simply reiterates and reifies the same old dichotomous construction of gender. It's bizarre.
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J.D.Regent
07/23/09

@andBegorrah: god thank you for being 10x more articulate than me. Talking about Linda is like trying to explain my mother to someone.
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Spacegirl goes home
07/23/09

In reply to Linda Hirshman Stands Defiantly In Judgment Of Domestic Abuse Victims
Oh, Linda Linda Linda. Keep digging, honey. Eventually you'll wind up in China.
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