GodDAMN, ladies, this is your vampire sex dream?! THIS?! I'm sorry, but these vampires aren't even vampire-y. If you want to fuck a vampire, fuck a vampire, but if you want to fuck a pillow-biting sissy who is going to "bruise" your body instead of bite it, well, I don't understand you. Any old man can have issues and apply body glitter. Only the undead can live off of your blood and make love like a "train thundering down a tunnel," as Sookie Stackhouse so graphically describes Eric. #twilightmen
I'm of the opinion that Twilight is best enjoyed with a hefty dose of irony. I mean, this is a book where the 107-year old virgin protagonist LITERALLY bites a pillow. Bella is a total Mary Sue, and the "sex" scene is basically a star wipe in literary form.
It's a thinly-veiled Mormon allegory-slash-BDSM fest, and it's hilarious. Also, RENESMEE!
@meritxell: an erotic life: im in total agreement. i love twilight so much because i can't take it seriously. when i read it i was like "oh my god, are you serious....this is absurd. this is ridiculous. this is fantastic" because it wraps mormon moralism in cliches and guilty pleasures. when i first read it i felt like i was reading a huge cultural joke that i was so happy to be in on. as you pointed out, renesmee really is just....so....perfectly horrendous. and its fun to play the "what does this really represent in her bizarro fundamentalist world" game. the voltari? totally the catholic church.
but i know that alot of twihards don't see through the self-destructive obsession and heavy-handed moralism (i mean, come on, she dies because she wont get an abortion), but i just can't give up my love of the camp. i know better, but its just so deliciously trashy. #twilightmen
Just when I thought they were done bitching about not measuring up to the President.
I don't remember this much XY-whining when The Wolverine was named Sexiest Man. (I'm going to pretend it's still that year; please don't mess with my reality construct.)
What gives? Is it a recession beef, that vampires've had more time to collect compound interest on their 401Ks and so have more cash for full bottles at the bar? *rolleyes*
@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: I suspect it's because he's "pretty" and not conventionally masculine. The idea that so many women are getting turned on by a guy most of them would have teased in HS for being "gay" probably upsets some people.
At least, that's the movie image. He needs to look like a teenage boy so there's an element of "pretty" that just seems built in. Add glitter and voila! #twilightmen
Interesting. I wonder if there are any guys who have the hots for Edward(or anyone else from the book)? I haven't heard of any dudes who want to bang him, but there must be some, right? It can't be all women and girls, can it? (THAT would have to be a first, from what I've seen on the internets.) Any Jezedudes here who can elaborate? #twilightmen
Is Edward wearing a Members Only jacket? I get the guy is old and that vampires can't look in mirrors, but come on now. This. Is. Not. Acceptable.
Vampires are scary. Vampires don't sparkle. Vampires don't play baseball. And they definitely don't wear Members Only jackets. Dracula was scary and the Hell of a snazzy dresser. #twilightmen
I think the Twilight fantasy is about more than just Edward. It's about not having kids, a job, all the stuff that makes every day life less exciting then running around with a vampire. And it's about having someone who's totally devoted to you, which while creepy in real life, can be a fun fantasy.
I don't think it's surprising that overworked, under appreciated moms are day dreaming about a beautiful man, who exactly knows what they want without them having to verbalize it (suddenly all those Cosmo tips work!) to come and pay attention to them.
Also I haven't read the books and only saw part of the first movie, but that werewolf guy seems way hotter and SO much more of a bad ass.
Edward and Bella just needs to ship off to Little Lord Fauntleroy School for Albino Hemophiliacs and leave me with the hot werewolves. Sure the writing would still be bad, but that's what ball gags are for.
Maritsa promoted this comment
Edited by Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! at 11/17/09 5:20 PM
Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! was starred
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@Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!: I totally agree. It could be Daniel Radcliffe, Johnny Depp or whomever -- the fantasy involves YOU being seventeen again, free from toddlers/career worries or whatever, and able to be totally self-involved/passionate/stupid /dramatic/crazy about someone, etc. AND having some guy totally focused on you. Honestly, I sometimes think that that is the appeal of slightly masochistic fantasies -- hey, the whip/bite/headboard smashing might hurt a little bit, but at least someone is paying attention to you completely at last!!! #twilightmen
@Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense!: Unfortunately, from what I gather, he also tries to force himself on Bella at some point and her dad blames her. If that's the case, then I'm even less thrilled than the stalking=true love thing.
I do understand the fantasy aspect of it, and the giddiness/intensity of first love/adolescent emotions. I would imagine when you've been married awhile you miss the newness. And the idea of undying love has appealed to audiences for so long now it's unlikely to ever go away. #twilightmen
@tiredfairy: Do you mean that you heard the Edward character forced himself sexually on Bella? If so, you may be thinking of another book or another character. At somepoint the Jacob character (weredude) forces Bella to kiss him, but she punches him and if I remember correctly her dad seems to both applaud the weredude's "chutzpah" for forcing physical intimacy with his daughter, but also his daughter's choice to slug him one.
The Bella character seems to be robbed of her choices by pretty much everyone several times in the books ("for her own good/safety"), but there is no actual rapey scene as far as I can remember.
@tiredfairy: Hmmm ... I listened to all the book (the narrator's fantastic; I'm not sure I could have gotten through them if I was reading), and I don't recall anything like that ... #twilightmen
@aunt.agonist001: It was in a written analysis of that scene, which the writer felt was borderline sexual assault. I suppose it depends on how serious you think a forced kiss is. I wouldn't put it up there with full on attempted rape if it just stopped at the kiss, but, it's still sounds unpleasant as a scene. Even with the punch.
But, thanks for the clarification. Definitely doesn't make me like the werewolf anymore, though. :} #twilightmen
@jfwlucy: Hmm.. I see what you're saying. I'd have loved to have been as awesome as I am now in high school. I was such an awkward dork with no sense of fashion, not a ton of friends (and those relationships were filled up with typical high school drama), and was just terribly naieve. I can see the appeal of fantasizing you were back at that point in your life, but things were way more perfect, and a totally hot dude is into you. You've suddenly made this make sense to me LOL. #twilightmen
@clevernamehere: That's true, but in real life, if Lloyd Dobbler showed up on my lawn with a boombox and a Peter Gabriel CD, I'd turn on the sprinklers and if Heath Ledger started singing "You're Just To Good to be True" during soccer practice over the intercom, I'd probably awkwardly avoid him for a few weeks and I certainly wouldn't flash someone to get him out of detention.
I just can't get too worked up over all this stuff. #twilightmen
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Yeah, but both those examples don't show up in your room to watch you sleep. Holding a boombox as a gesture of defiance and love is way different than following you around, smelling you, telling you "you're like my own personal brand of heroin" and poking around your house.
Lloyd stays away from Diane other than that moment...and while Verona singing is one of the more ridiculous aspects of that movie, neither girl gets lost in that relationship. It's just a very different message.
I'm not saying Twilight is anything to freak out over. It's not. But it is portraying a particular stalker vibe without criticism. #twilightmen
Please, if I'm going to have a vampire fantasy it's going to be about Eric Northman. (or at the very least Spike--not to confuse my references). #twilightmen
TransFat promoted this comment
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Lizard in the Wires - synthesizer signals suspense! was unstarred
My fiance and I have an agreement about fictional characters, and since he doesn't want me to start analyzing how much more attention he pays to NCIS when Abby is on screen or why he really reads the Sandman comics he's wise enough to ignore the fact that I've seen almost every episode of Paranormal State and occasionally look at teenage werewolves. #twilightmen
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: Wait, who does he have the hots for in Sandman? I have to admit Dream is one of my fictional crushes, but I can't really think of any stand-out female characters. Death, maybe? #twilightmen
@Arginusae: He does! I figured the Abby thing out easy ("Sweetheart, I KNOW you have a thing for someone on that show because you make me watch it for 3 hours a day and unless you have something you'd like to tell me about Mark Harmon, I think you're busted.") but I had to blackmail him into giving up the goods on Death. I wasn't sure if it was her or Delirium. #twilightmen
@hovy: Oh I don't care, honestly. It's not like he's going to be able to LEAVE me for one of the Endless. I have crushes on fictional characters too, and I tell him about them. They're totally harmless and kind of funny. We have some of our best conversations while teasing each other about crushes. #twilightmen
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I just started getting into 'The Sandman' series and I love it so much and I was Morpheus for Halloween! ...though no one recognized me because: a) I am a lady with awesome ladyparts; b) I refused to go in whiteface; and c) I hadn't planned ahead enough to get these. I've just recently come to accept that I'm not a weirdo for having pretty intense fantasies about a cartoon who controls my dreams.
I think I'm gonna go as Death next year...if the weather is warm enough (I've haven't seen her in a coat yet...) #twilightmen
@L'Chaim!: I do pretty awesome white face -- he was Morpheus for Halloween two years ago and I had to paint all his exposed skin white and then go back over and add details in black and then spray that black stuff in his hair. #twilightmen
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I thought about it...I felt like I was cheating by not going the distance with the whiteface. But I reasoned that most people wouldn'tve recognized me anyway, and that was enough to get me to back away from the pancake makeup. (Also, from my days in high school drama club, that shit wrecks my skin. I couldn't quite justify three weeks of acne, for one night of --well, it would've been awesome, but still... If I go as Death, I dunno what I'll do. That's a lot of flesh that needs to be whited up. #twilightmen
@L'Chaim!: Corn starch. You don't actually have to go full white to get the same pale effect. Layers of corn starch over regular makeup that's a few shades lighter than you are should do it. #twilightmen
@L'Chaim!: Gothy teen years taught me lots of weird tips. If you do use the cs just make sure all your other makeup is how you want it. It tends to seal it and make it difficult to correct anything after you start applying it. #twilightmen
I'm celebrating my 6 month anniversary tonight and I'm going to buy some body sparkle paint on the way home so the night can be a dream come true. #twilightmen
Sadie, Twilight is to me what Glee is to you. I mean really. How am I NOT supposed to judge a series of books that leads grown-ass women to wear shirts like the one described above? I MEAN SERIOUSLY, LADIES, PHYSICAL INTIMIDATION =/= HOT. FFS.
@Arginusae: I mean, if he wants to start cleaning up so he doesn't trip or maybe do some laundry while he's doing it, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit or anything... #twilightmen
Yeah, well this Edward thing has totally passed me by. I'm 40, a straight woman, and I don't get it. At all. Effete moody sparkly celibate teenager. Blech.
Now...the werewolves? Hmm, uh, their age is somewhat problematic, but, yeah, I NEVER saw a 17 y.o. built that at my high school. Ooofa. So wrong. #twilightmen
A t-shirt that says "Edward can BUST my headboard, BITE my pillows, and BRUISE my body any day!"
I don't have words for how wrong that is. I don't read the books but even if it makes sense within that context, it's still sending out an incredibly detrimental message. #twilightmen
@JessickerFletcher: And this is why I'm sick of the fact that people say that critics of Twilight over-emphasize the problematic nature of the book's glorification of abuse, because "it's fiction" or "they're teenage girls, no girl that age has good taste in guys, they'll grow out of it."
The problem is that art imitates life and these people ARE taking that message to heart, whether they realize it or not. And, of course, not everyone who loves the book is a teenage girl, and not every girl "grows out of it." #twilightmen
@JessickerFletcher: Basically he does all that shit when they get married and have teh sehcks for the first time. Because Bella's not a vampire yet, and he's an ice-cold Adonis with chiseled granite abs.
I guess it's just a rough-sex fantasy(no stranger to those myself), but it's disturbing, even in the context of the book. The point is that she's so weak, she needs this guy to defend her, and in real life that's not a good thing. She's pretty much physically abused by everyone, but it's ok because he loves her and can't control himself and is so strong. The message is that it's ok for him to be physically rough because he has good intentions. It's still creepy. It's not that the sex is intended to be rough, it's that he just can't help himself. I don't think I'm making much sense; maybe someone else can explain it better. #twilightmen
@Zombie Ms. Skittles: I say you're not living until you've broken a headboard or a footboard or a box spring.
And guys, it really is *just fiction*. I read the book and it sounded like they were having a rip roaring good time. They waited until they were married and everything! Let the poor (FICTIONAL) characters have some fun! #twilightmen
@dj_chick: Yes and no. It's a fictional story that has become a pop culture phenomenon.
I get that, when you like something, it's really hard to have people critique it all the time. And for you the individual it's okay for you not to want to get into deep analysis for yourself. But to say that it's "just fiction" is...I don't know. Stories have power like ideas have power.
Everyone knows they're fictional. No one is arguing that they're real people and should be treated with the same levity as reality. But it's pop culture. That kind of stuff both reflects and influences actual things people believe and think. A little critique shouldn't ruin anyone's fun if the work is really "just fiction" in the sense that it's just superficial.
I'm not saying Meyer is trying to tell all girls to be weak, or that it's okay to be abused by a lover. But that's still what she's presenting in her story with way she's told it. Intention and execution are two different things.
I respect that you like the stories and wish people would just read them for fun. You can do that. But analyzing pop culture is sort of the entire point of Jez. I don't think anyone is taking these books too seriously. It's like saying who cares about advertising, or the fixation with Disney princesses, they're harmless. Except when they really aren't. That's all anyone is really looking at when it comes to this. Parsing out what they personally find acceptable in their own entertainment.
I mean, I love romance and love stories. Including supernatural ones. But even the ones I love, like Buffy, aren't exempt from discussion on the basis of being "just fiction". #twilightmen
@tiredfairy: I don't know if my perception of Edward is different than other people's because of my life experiences with men, but I wouldn't be surprised. I've seen men be moderately controlling, but never abusive. I've never had an honest to god stalker, nor seen friends go through anything similar. And out of every person I know in real life, only one views Twilight to be masogynistic and Edward to be a controlling stalker type. And she happens to have an MFA in Literature. And whenever I see pop culture things being ripped to shreds on Jez, I tend to be quick to defend them. Not always, but a lot. I should probably steer clear of anything Twilight related around here. (Sending from my G1, sorry for any typos.) #twilightmen
guys seem to forget how easy - and common - it is for them to bail on their offspring. why would a woman use a baby to trap you when you could just leave her a single parent?
from what i can tell there were about 6 million deadbeat dads circa 2005. #idiocy
11/18/09
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It's a thinly-veiled Mormon allegory-slash-BDSM fest, and it's hilarious. Also, RENESMEE!
11/17/09
but i know that alot of twihards don't see through the self-destructive obsession and heavy-handed moralism (i mean, come on, she dies because she wont get an abortion), but i just can't give up my love of the camp. i know better, but its just so deliciously trashy. #twilightmen
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I don't remember this much XY-whining when The Wolverine was named Sexiest Man. (I'm going to pretend it's still that year; please don't mess with my reality construct.)
What gives? Is it a recession beef, that vampires've had more time to collect compound interest on their 401Ks and so have more cash for full bottles at the bar? *rolleyes*
11/17/09
At least, that's the movie image. He needs to look like a teenage boy so there's an element of "pretty" that just seems built in. Add glitter and voila! #twilightmen
11/17/09
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Is Edward wearing a Members Only jacket? I get the guy is old and that vampires can't look in mirrors, but come on now. This. Is. Not. Acceptable.
Vampires are scary. Vampires don't sparkle. Vampires don't play baseball. And they definitely don't wear Members Only jackets. Dracula was scary and the Hell of a snazzy dresser. #twilightmen
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I don't think it's surprising that overworked, under appreciated moms are day dreaming about a beautiful man, who exactly knows what they want without them having to verbalize it (suddenly all those Cosmo tips work!) to come and pay attention to them.
Also I haven't read the books and only saw part of the first movie, but that werewolf guy seems way hotter and SO much more of a bad ass.
Edward and Bella just needs to ship off to Little Lord Fauntleroy School for Albino Hemophiliacs and leave me with the hot werewolves. Sure the writing would still be bad, but that's what ball gags are for.
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I do understand the fantasy aspect of it, and the giddiness/intensity of first love/adolescent emotions. I would imagine when you've been married awhile you miss the newness. And the idea of undying love has appealed to audiences for so long now it's unlikely to ever go away. #twilightmen
11/17/09
The Bella character seems to be robbed of her choices by pretty much everyone several times in the books ("for her own good/safety"), but there is no actual rapey scene as far as I can remember.
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But, thanks for the clarification. Definitely doesn't make me like the werewolf anymore, though. :} #twilightmen
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#calendar
11/17/09
Jim Roden seems to have taken a good lesson from his wife's fondness of the books, but most of these ladies just seem crazy. #twilightmen
11/17/09
I just can't get too worked up over all this stuff. #twilightmen
11/17/09
Lloyd stays away from Diane other than that moment...and while Verona singing is one of the more ridiculous aspects of that movie, neither girl gets lost in that relationship. It's just a very different message.
I'm not saying Twilight is anything to freak out over. It's not. But it is portraying a particular stalker vibe without criticism. #twilightmen
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He has a crush on Death? Aww. Well, she's the most awesome of the Endless. #twilightmen
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I think I'm gonna go as Death next year...if the weather is warm enough (I've haven't seen her in a coat yet...) #twilightmen
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Time for me meds. #twilightmen
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Not only sexy, but organised and resourceful. Now there's a reliable stalker. #twilightmen
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Now...the werewolves? Hmm, uh, their age is somewhat problematic, but, yeah, I NEVER saw a 17 y.o. built that at my high school. Ooofa. So wrong. #twilightmen
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I don't have words for how wrong that is. I don't read the books but even if it makes sense within that context, it's still sending out an incredibly detrimental message. #twilightmen
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(Why do I know these things? Because I have a compulsion to finish serieses. Damn it.)
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The problem is that art imitates life and these people ARE taking that message to heart, whether they realize it or not. And, of course, not everyone who loves the book is a teenage girl, and not every girl "grows out of it." #twilightmen
11/17/09
I guess it's just a rough-sex fantasy(no stranger to those myself), but it's disturbing, even in the context of the book. The point is that she's so weak, she needs this guy to defend her, and in real life that's not a good thing. She's pretty much physically abused by everyone, but it's ok because he loves her and can't control himself and is so strong. The message is that it's ok for him to be physically rough because he has good intentions. It's still creepy. It's not that the sex is intended to be rough, it's that he just can't help himself. I don't think I'm making much sense; maybe someone else can explain it better. #twilightmen
11/17/09
And guys, it really is *just fiction*. I read the book and it sounded like they were having a rip roaring good time. They waited until they were married and everything! Let the poor (FICTIONAL) characters have some fun! #twilightmen
11/17/09
I get that, when you like something, it's really hard to have people critique it all the time. And for you the individual it's okay for you not to want to get into deep analysis for yourself. But to say that it's "just fiction" is...I don't know. Stories have power like ideas have power.
Everyone knows they're fictional. No one is arguing that they're real people and should be treated with the same levity as reality. But it's pop culture. That kind of stuff both reflects and influences actual things people believe and think. A little critique shouldn't ruin anyone's fun if the work is really "just fiction" in the sense that it's just superficial.
I'm not saying Meyer is trying to tell all girls to be weak, or that it's okay to be abused by a lover. But that's still what she's presenting in her story with way she's told it. Intention and execution are two different things.
I respect that you like the stories and wish people would just read them for fun. You can do that. But analyzing pop culture is sort of the entire point of Jez. I don't think anyone is taking these books too seriously. It's like saying who cares about advertising, or the fixation with Disney princesses, they're harmless. Except when they really aren't. That's all anyone is really looking at when it comes to this. Parsing out what they personally find acceptable in their own entertainment.
I mean, I love romance and love stories. Including supernatural ones. But even the ones I love, like Buffy, aren't exempt from discussion on the basis of being "just fiction". #twilightmen
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10/23/09
from what i can tell there were about 6 million deadbeat dads circa 2005. #idiocy