dennismalvasi - Jezebel

posts about #dennismalvasi more →
New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber

Your version of Internet Explorer is not supported. Please upgrade to the most recent version in order to view comments.

Dsmvwl Admin Promote to frontpage Approve user Ban user ×

fangbanger
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Today at school I was walking up some stairs and saw chalk writing on the ground. It was a Dr. Seuss quote about "A person is a person no matter how small." I kept walking and discovered that the entire concrete walkway, which fans out in several directions on the quad, had been covered with anti-abortion quotes and statistics, and drawings of hearts and flowers which the sidewalk writing claimed represented "people killed" by abortion. It was a huge display, right at the center of campus. I really felt sick to my stomach. It's one thing to disagree with abortion, and it's another thing entirely to impose your feelings on other people.
Reply

fangbanger was starred fangbanger was unstarred

SunburnedCounsel
11/03/08

@fangbanger: Dr. Seuss's widow has fought really hard against the co-option of his phrase by the anti-choicers- I think she's even brought some injunctions. Which makes me happy.
Reply

SunburnedCounsel was starred SunburnedCounsel was unstarred

Ascendo_tuum
11/03/08

@SunburnedCounsel: I read about that, too. Totally pissed me off that they co-opted a favorite childhood story.
Reply

Ascendo_tuum was starred Ascendo_tuum was unstarred

Flackette Goes Retro
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Safe, legal and rare. What do some people find so hard to understand about that?
Reply

SarahMC
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Anti-choicers can project all their neuroses onto the unborn, because they are blank slates; therefore they are more important than the rest of us, and reflect whatever warped worldviews the anti-choicer holds. They are "innocent," which is true because they are incapable of making moral decisions, which makes them worth "saving."
Reply

SarahMC was starred SarahMC was unstarred

jejune - the giraffe hugger
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Can we stop calling such violently anti-abortion people "pro-life"? There's nothing pro-life about what this guy did.
Reply

Liz11685
11/03/08

@jejune - the giraffe hugger: I concur- I like to call them anti-choice. Or crazy, but that is just me!
Reply

Liz11685 was starred Liz11685 was unstarred

ucelluccia
11/03/08

@jejune - the giraffe hugger: Like other have said above, this person is not representative of the movement. I've started using "pro-life" to denote people like Husband, who are pro-having the choice but anti-using it; I therefore use "anti-choice" to refer to people like this guy. It's just as unfair to paint everyone against abortion as clinic-bombing religious psychopaths as it is unfair to paint all pro-choicers as radical lesbian feminist babykillers.
Reply

ucelluccia was starred ucelluccia was unstarred

ucelluccia
11/03/08

@ucelluccia: How about, "Like others have said..."

I suck at typing.
Reply

ucelluccia was starred ucelluccia was unstarred

SarahMC
11/03/08

@ucelluccia: "It's just as unfair to paint everyone against abortion as clinic-bombing religious psychopaths"

And who did that, pray tell?

Your hubby is pro-choice, by the way.
Reply

SarahMC was starred SarahMC was unstarred

ucelluccia
11/03/08

@SarahMC: Um, this site is stuffed with comments about "crazy religious nuts." I didn't say you said that; it's a fairly common theme in the comments on Jezebel.

And my husband self-identifies as pro-life, in that he never ever thinks anyone should choose an abortion but he thinks it's counterproductive to make it illegal. So, no, he's not pro-choice. There might need to be a third term: pro-legality?
Reply

ucelluccia was starred ucelluccia was unstarred

TurtleWexlerKickedMe
11/03/08

@ucelluccia: your husband is the VERY DEFINITION of pro-choice (according to your description of him). I get that maybe he doesn't want to associate with "our side," but he is actually pro-choice.

Words matter.
Reply

SarahMC
11/03/08

@ucelluccia: Comments about crazy religious nuts are about crazy religious nuts. If you're not a crazy religious nut there's no reason to take it personally.

Pro-choice and pro-life are terms with definitions; both refer to a person's stance on the legality of abortion. Not sure why your husband would rather align himself with those who wish to outlaw abortion, but whatev.
Reply

SarahMC was starred SarahMC was unstarred

librariesare4lovers
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Ok I am going to sound like a MAJOR broken record and even though I'm even starting to annoy myself by always bring this up I have to say it b/c this film is honestly so relevant and thought provoking about this topic but everyone -EVERYONE0 who hasn't already done so needs to go out and rent the movie LAKE OF FIRE. It will make you think, it will make you cringe, it will make you want to spend the rest of your life fighting for reproductive rights. I've never seen a doc on abortion that so reignited the dialog abortion just within my own head. It is so worth watching I promise.
Reply

briardahl
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
I'm not sure why this kind of violence should be entirely baffling. If someone has a fixed belief that abortion is the "murder" of unborn people, it's not exactly a huge leap to use force or violence to "defend" those people, the same way we do more or less every other case. All it takes is a belief that your moral conclusion about abortion trumps the government's conclusions about its legality. (Which, again, isn't an insane conclusion in itself; it's the same point plenty of abolitionists operated from.)

Which is part of why I think any defense of abortion rights over the long term actually needs to provide space for people with objections to it to voice those objections and feel like they're being taken seriously -- because when there's no outlet for that sentiment, and when it can't be contained someplace where people can peacefully dissent, it radicalizes further and moves toward violence.
Reply

briardahl was starred briardahl was unstarred

PinkSoxHat
11/03/08

@briardahl: I'd love to take them seriously, if the movement would go more towards preventing abortion through education, support for women who want to keep their babies but can't afford it, and greater access to birth control. I will not take them seriously when their methods consist of showing 6-year-olds pictures of aborted fetuses and blocking entrances to clinics.
Reply

PinkSoxHat was starred PinkSoxHat was unstarred

briardahl
11/03/08

@PinkSoxHat: That's a very broad "they" you're using! But part of my point here is that their methods are always going to be linked to the perceived place of their argument. I'm not sure how much gets achieved by saying it's incumbent on them to come occupy the middle ground; the radicals here aren't people who have much taste for the middle ground to begin with. (And there's no doubt in my mind that there'll always be a fringe of radical dissent on this one.) It's been interesting to me to watch politicians on the left this decade trying to actively entice people into those middle-ground tactics you name, with the promise that those things are supported all round.
Reply

briardahl was starred briardahl was unstarred

YourScreenplaySucks
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Shades of the horrifying Eric Rudolph case (bomber of abortion clinics, a gay bar, and the 1996 Olympics). The most maddening aspect of his case is that he was able to remain a fugitive so long because he had a large network of supporters who would not turn him him. Two country music songs were written about him during that time & top-selling T-shirts & bumper stickers in that area (Appalachia) read, "Run Rudolph Run".

The sentiment of the locals is summed up by this lady quoted in this NY Times article:

''Rudolph's a Christian and I'm a Christian and he dedicated his life to fighting abortion,'' said Crystal Davis, 25, a mother of four. ''Those are our values. These are our woods. I don't see what he did as a terrorist act.''

[query.nytimes.com]
Reply

Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
The thought processes of these people boggle. So contradictory and hypocritcal, it just beggars belief.

I would love to know how much of the Bible they have actually read and understood, and their understanding of Biblical context. Even my religious education teacher, at a Catholic school, whose name was Miss Churchman told us that you can't take most of what the Bible says a literal truth.

Also, how can they justify killing their own countrymen, when they are usually so virulently patriotic? God..... really really scary stuff this.
Reply

pandorasmittens
11/03/08

@Cesybabe or Nirvanah Crane: Fundamentalism is a strange thing. The vast majority of the pro life movement would condemn these actions. It taints the very notion of Christianity, just as Islamic terrorists pollute the notion of Islam.

I went to a Catholic School as well, and we were taught the same thing-the Bible is heavily allegorical, and we shouldn't look to it to tell us where life came from, but instead how to best life the life we were given.

Also, the fact that your teacher was named Miss Churchman is pretty hilarious.
Reply

pandorasmittens was starred pandorasmittens was unstarred

pandorasmittens
11/03/08

@pandorasmittens: "LIVE" the life. Ahem.
Reply

pandorasmittens was starred pandorasmittens was unstarred

Jessi Ramsey
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
I will never understand how what people do in their own private lives affects these pro-lifers. If people don't follow your interpretation of life will all your beliefs come crashing down?

And if life begins at conception then how about you terrorize men by standing on a stret corner and yelling something like, "Don't leave to luck, if you're going to fuck!" and then throw packages of condoms at them.
Reply

Jessi Ramsey was starred Jessi Ramsey was unstarred

NefariousNewt
11/03/08

@Jessi Ramsey: It has to do with the idea that the "chosen" people must do all they can to "minister" to the non-believers, so they can convert before the Second Coming, because, of course, anyone who doesn't will be consumed and cast into Hell.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

RisaPlata
11/03/08

@NefariousNewt, Democratic Poll Challenger: Right, except what it's really about is feeling superior. Like in the Mad Men thread a while ago when the discussion was Peggy's sister outing her "transgression" to the minister and someone said "wasn't it Peggy's sister that wanted her to go to church and be saved?" And no, she wanted her to go to church and be reminded every day of this horrible, sinful thing she did and how she's going to hell, because God can never love her now hahaha.

Maybe a few truly believe, but I think most just enjoy being righteous.
Reply

RisaPlata was starred RisaPlata was unstarred

jejune - the giraffe hugger
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
...I had no idea that there were Catholics against Vatican II.
Reply

Liz11685
11/03/08

@jejune - the giraffe hugger: A good number, but they are all getting a lot older. They feel like Vatican II was an atrocity against the Church.
Reply

Liz11685 was starred Liz11685 was unstarred

skittlbrau
11/03/08

@jejune - the giraffe hugger: Oh yes there certainly are. Mel Gibson is one of them.
Reply

skittlbrau was starred skittlbrau was unstarred

NefariousNewt
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
It still amazes me how many people who proclaim themselves Christians, act in a manner so unlike Christ that they might well have helped nail him to the cross. Hypocrisy, thy name if the religious fanatic.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

haguenite
11/03/08

@NefariousNewt, Democratic Poll Challenger: We could really use McCain's airquotes here: "Christians".
Reply

haguenite was starred haguenite was unstarred

SunburnedCounsel
11/03/08

@haguenite: I like to call them Christianists.
Reply

SunburnedCounsel was starred SunburnedCounsel was unstarred

Crabby Cakes
11/03/08

@NefariousNewt, Democratic Poll Challenger: Right, wasn't it Christ that preached love and tolerance for all? Prostitutes, lepers, whoever! I believe Jesus embraced them all. This is also what makes me so mad about California's Yes On Prop 8 crazies. "If you're still undecided on Prop 8, pray on it." Jesus preached TOLERANCE and ACCEPTANCE. So tolerate and accept, damnit!
Reply

Crabby Cakes was starred Crabby Cakes was unstarred

doodley is not amused
11/03/08

@Crabby Cakes: Perhaps the undecided on Prop 8 could consult these local religious leaders:

+ Watch video

Reply

NefariousNewt
11/03/08

@Crabby Cakes: That's the problem when you are 2000 years removed from the teacher -- the message gets a little muddled along the way. I tend to believe that the apostles did not exactly transmit faithfully the word of their savior, and I believe the Catholic church has done quite a great deal to muddy the water further through the centuries. And this is the result.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

bajita
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
This probably doesn't need to be said, but just in case, it should be stressed that the vast vast majority of anti-abortion people do NOT support this kind of thing.
Reply

bajita was starred bajita was unstarred

Penny
11/03/08

@bajita: No. But the vast majority of anti-abortion people likely don't consider it an act of terrorism.
Reply

Penny was starred Penny was unstarred

NefariousNewt
11/03/08

@bajita: Yes, but very rarely to the forcefully condemn this kind of thing either. These fringe anti-abortionists wouldn't have nearly the following if the main body of the anti-abortion crowd would coe down on them like a ton of bricks and make it quite clear that their help is not wanted.
Reply

NefariousNewt was starred NefariousNewt was unstarred

ucelluccia
11/03/08

@bajita: Indeed. My husband is very, very pro-life (and I use that phrase on purpose, as he is pro-having the choice but anti-using it), but he knows better than to 1) vote to impose his beliefs on others and 2) even consider giving these types of people (bombers) any form of sympathy. When I bash anti-choice people on here, I feel bad, because my husband might have become one of them if he hadn't tempered his beliefs with, you know, rationality and human compassion.
Reply

ucelluccia was starred ucelluccia was unstarred

EkaterinaBallerina
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Anyone ever see the controversial episode Law&Order did during their first season on abortion clinic bombers? I just remember the DA nailing the bomber on the stand with the simple fact that the victim hadn't had her abortion yet so by killing her, the bomber was just as guilty as the "sinners" she was after. It also featured a great back and forth between the two ADAs. One against abortion who says that if the laws hadn't changed those that perform abortions would be on trial. The other points out that if the laws hadn't changed, he'd still be a slave, that you can't change history. A brilliant episode all around.

Frankly, if McCain/Palin really wanted to "rpotect America" and fight the war on terror, neither of them would make it easier for abortion clinic bombings (McCain has voted repeatedly against laws that would protect citizens from them). As far as I am concerned that's domestic terrorism bread from the same religious fanaticism that lead those men to fly planes into the World Trade Center. You can't allow one while simultaneously condemning the other.
Reply

EkaterinaBallerina was starred

librariesare4lovers
11/03/08

@ekaterinaballerina: I love that one! Ben Stone is all: "If abortion is muder any way you look at it then who is guilty of killing (bomber's name) unborn child?".
Reply

gigi-jade
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
Also inexplicable: why so many pro-lifers are pro-capital punishment. Huh??
Reply

gigi-jade was starred gigi-jade was unstarred

Crabby Cakes
11/03/08

@gigi-jade: Exactly! WTF? Logic fail.
Reply

Crabby Cakes was starred Crabby Cakes was unstarred

pandorasmittens
11/03/08

In reply to New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber
I like contrasting these two sentiments:

"Of course [violence] does. It solves all kinds of problems."

"If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head. Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."
Reply

pandorasmittens was starred pandorasmittens was unstarred

tawdrylorde
11/03/08

@pandorasmittens: what commie, pinko, gay, hippie, liberal said that shit?
Reply

tawdrylorde was starred tawdrylorde was unstarred

pandorasmittens
11/03/08

@chanticorae: Some Community Organizer guy with long hair and some wild ideas.
Reply

pandorasmittens was starred pandorasmittens was unstarred

Earlier discussions Other discussions Show all discussions Show featured discussions only Start a new discussion

#dennismalvasi

Jezebel

SUBSCRIBE TO Jezebel

New York Explores The Mindset Of An Abortion Clinic Bomber

Login

Reset Password

Register

Submit Your Comment