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Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing

Women On The Verge Of A Financial Breakdown

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likepenguins
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I don't feel bad about her debt, per se, but I do sort of feel bad that a lack of money skills might lessen someone in our eyes. Liebovitz busted her ass to get where she is, and yes, she should have taken better care of her funds/reigned in her spending/hired a manager to oversee her money. But it doesn't make me think less of her, really. She can't budget and she overspends. Welcome to my world. I never thought of it, but I guess I'm lucky that I consider overspending to be buying a new pair of shoes from DSW, i.e. not something that can put me into 24 million dollar, irreversible debt.

This is not to say, "oh, poor Annie," because, like I said, I don't have a wealth of sympathy for her. But neither is this "drugging a young girl and having sex with her in a hot tub" - in other words, my feelings about her as a person or an icon aren't hampered by this.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@likepenguins: agreed. the shame that goes hand and hand with debt is really crippling and totally unwarranted. Even if you overspent or whatever, ok, its done, you only hurt yourself, now its time to move forward. The way people just beat themselves up over it makes me sad.
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likepenguins
08/17/09

@bluebears: and makes it difficult to face up to it and start climbing your way out. And it's sort of ridiculous, because I can count on one hand the number of people I know of who owe absolutely nothing to anyone - not mortgages or car notes or loan payments or credit card debt. And Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar are two of them.
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IvyArbor
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I thoroughly appreciated the title portion, "irrationally disappointing". Why should anyone assume that just because AL is greatly talented at photography she has any clue how to manage her money.

Haven't enough bankers proved themselves incompetent at that task?
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Bunsy
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
It's not tragic, she pissed away her money and has been overspending and not paying suppliers, etc, for years.

I am not sure why she did not have a money manager/accountant who kept her in line. (Sorry for that phrase, but writing quickly.) Then, she would have had more than enough to take care of her children, etc.

As the article pointed out, it is one thing to photograph Oprah or the Queen of England, but another to live at their level. And, I think Conde Nast of the old days almost encouraged that kind of behavior as long as the shot got taken.

I say all of this with an enormous respect for her talent. But still, you have to (somewhat) keep an eye on things, pay your bills, pay your assistants and the framers and the developers, etc... or hire someone to take care of that stuff for you.
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tewkesbury
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I still would not view her financial disaster as a sign that it "can't be done." The fact that she was able to parlay creative success into substantial wealth is actually a sign that it CAN be done. She just didn't do it. (or didn't do it yet. It's not like she died.)
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Plum-Pie
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
A few years back when I was sorting out my own (at the time, horrible) financial situation, I read that many debtors tell themselves that when their salary increases, they'll pay off their debts. In fact, unless they start to deal with their debts, a salary increase just leads to taking on more debt.

There is definitely a double-standard here - a male artist in her situation would be seen (by some) as some sort of romantic.

Debt, (although a fundament of the current capitalist system), is still seen as a failing - morally and intellectually, and she doesn't get a free pass because she's 'creative'.
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Penny
08/17/09

@Plum-Pie: YES, this is something I also learned when trying to deal with my own fucked up finances. When people begin to make more, they begin to spend more. Most do, at least.
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Laulau
08/17/09

@Plum-Pie: Why would this been seen as "romantic" in a male case? There are definitely gendered issues - I think part of the reason I react as strongly as I do to this news is that the idea of being an impoverished woman is so real, and frightens me like I can't say. It's one reason I'll never let myself be financially dependent on a man. But I'd think a man in this situation would actually be seen as a bigger failure, since they're "supposed" to support themselves and their families.
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Mafalda para Presidente
08/17/09

@Penny: Indeed. It's the reason why no matter how much money someone makes, many of them seem to always complain how it isn't enough. The trick is to live the same way when you have more money, at least until you pay off debt and accumulate decent savings. Unfortunately most people don't do that.
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AndPreciousLittleofThat
08/17/09

@Plum-Pie: Debt IS a moral failing, but not an intellectual one. I (and I'm sure everyone else on here) know lots of smart people who just can't seem to get their finances together.

That's because the dirty little secret is that being good with money isn't just about math. If it were, anybody with more than fourth-grade education could do it. No, from what I've seen, money and how you spend it is simply the outward manifestation of your personal psychology.

Debt is, and should be, shameful. There is no such thing as "constructive debt," and if any of the sharp-suited people from Wall Street understood that DEBT EQUALS RISK, then we wouldn't be bailing out so many morons, and maybe Ms. Liebovitz would still have the rights to her catalogue.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@AndPreciousLittleofThat: whoa. I don't think debt is inherently shameful. Most people in America have debt, and I'm not even talking about credit card debt. What about mortgages, student loans, or debt incurred for medical expenses your insurance wouldn't pay for? (or you don't have insurance)
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pmarble
08/17/09

@bluebears: No, it's not. But failing to repay it and, even worse, shafting your suppliers can be quite shameful, especially when you're apparently building the Taj Mahal of brownstowns.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@pmarble: right. I don't think its inherently shameful, some situations are more shame-worthy than others.
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formergr
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I'm surprised Jezebel's earlier piece on this (called Why is Annie Leibovitz Broke?) isn't linked, since it contains a lot more explanation on why she is, in fact, broke...
[jezebel.com]
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Edited by formergr at 08/17/09 2:39 PM formergr was starred formergr was unstarred

AthertonMerriweather
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
Just because you make lots of money it doesn't mean you know how to manage it. Are we supposed to feel bad for her? I don't mean to sound insensitive, but there are people who are broke right now because they've lost their jobs, not because they couldn't manage their millions.
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Trulymadlyme
08/17/09

@AthertonMerriweather: See also: TLC
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squinko
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I remember reading an article about this months ago that attributed most of her debt to the "inheritance tax" from receiving things that her late partner willed to her. It mentioned that it happens to a lot of gay couples when one of them passes away, especially when there's something very valuable like a house involved.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@squinko: except no. that actually did not turn out to be the case.
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bluebears
08/17/09

edit.
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Edited by bluebears at 08/17/09 2:41 PM bluebears was starred bluebears was unstarred

Trulymadlyme
08/17/09

@squinko: That was pretty much bunked. I believe Sontag pretty much left everything to her kids.

Liebovitz made bad business decisions, bad real estate decisions, and just didn't run her operation well. She spent too much; she didn't pay vendors; she bought those townhouses; the editorial budget for her clients was severely slashed. Long to short, it was a mix of factors but no one was driving the ship.

It's a point I think is lost on people. The people keeping things running aren't going to be seen. They're accountants and lawyers in cubicles. Fidgeting with excel spreadsheets and debt financing statements. It's why I find it hilarious that Conde Nast hired McKinsey to basically tell them to stop spending money on unnecessary things, like heavily subsidized mortgages for its editors.
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Edited by Trulymadlyme at 08/17/09 2:54 PM Trulymadlyme was starred Trulymadlyme was unstarred

bluebears
08/17/09

@Trulymadlyme: there is just NO way you go that deep into debt because of the inheritance tax.
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nora charles
08/17/09

@bluebears: Even if it did, she and Sontag were no longer together, and Sontag left her property to her son, not to Leibovitz.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@nora charles: I know. The whole piece was just basically fear-mongering about the inheritance tax. Typical.
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Shotrock
08/17/09

@squinko: My mom worked for a law office in my hometown, which morphed into a very gay-friendly community in the late 70s/early 80s. Since AIDS casualties hit the LGBT community hard back then, the attorneys in that office (all straight white men, btw) ramped up very quickly on how to help the surviving partner hold on to the house, the money, you name it. This was twenty years before domestic union laws became common.

If some gay dude in my medium-sized gay-friendly hometown in New Jersey could ensure his partner got the house and the IRA when he succumbed to AIDS-related illness and disease back in freaking 1988 I find it hard to believe that Sontag and Liebowitz had fewer options in uber-gay-friendly center-of-the-legal-universe Manhattan in 2008.

There are gay couples that, sadly, don't have access to empathetic legal help. These two? Not one of them.
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Penny
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
Anyone can spend beyond their means. I don't care if you pull in $20K or 20 million a year. It's always possible.

Now, the dude in the luxury land yacht who haggles over a one dollar item at a garage sale? That guy will stay rich.
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The Lone Scout
08/17/09

@Penny: Absolutely. And I can guarantee that when he has his house painted, he skips the interiors of the closets.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@Penny: So true. When you have more money, that just means that you get a bigger line of credit extended to you.
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bluebears
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
I don't know. I don't want this to come off insensitive but...it's not "tragic" to me. Tragic is the laid off auto worker who is losing his house and has absolutely zero job prospects because he's trained for nothing else and he's in his 40s. Tragic is the thousands of people waiting outside an enormous arena stadium for the chance to get a cavity filled.I guess what I'm saying is, in these times, I just don't have much sympathy for the Leibovitz' of the world. Lets be real, she's in ENORMOUS debt, but she wont starve, she'll still work.
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Penny
08/17/09

@bluebears: I agree, not tragic at all. She has a skill set that no one else has, and while it may be painful for her, she can make changes and pull herself out. She's still young.
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willwriteforfood
08/17/09

@bluebears: Yeah, I'm with you there. Maybe because I think Vanity Fair will never let her or her kids starve - they helped make her, they rely on her and her star power. She might have to take a monstrous loss on those two townhouses she gutted and never finished but I'm kind of surprised at how dispassionately I've been reading about her and her travails. It sucks, and I feel sorry for her, but if it came down to who I feel worse for, my sympathies lie with those who truly have no prospects for the next 40 years of their lives and no Graydon Carter likely to bail them out.
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NefariousNewt
08/17/09

@bluebears: I agree. We don't want to believe that people like her can get themselves into these situations, but why should she be any different than a lottery winner or dot-com millionaire? And if she gets herself into the situation of being bankrupt, well, then that's the bed she made, and she has to sleep in it, just like the rest of us.

Then again, I agree with Sadie -- it's disappointing. Because we would hope that when someone attains an exalted status like that, they would be somehow better than us, not letting themselves be tripped up by the vagaries of living.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@NefariousNewt: true. It's disapointing because I think it prompts people to think, "If I had that money I'd be grateful for every penny not over extending," but you know, humans aren't perfect. ;-)
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AthertonMerriweather
08/17/09

@bluebears: I'm with you on this (see my previous comment). I guess she'll have to start shooting weddings and bat mitzvah's.
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bluebears
08/17/09

@AthertonMerriweather: right. and honestly? not even that, like willrightforfood pointed out VF still employs her at a hefty sum.
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Rare Affinity
08/17/09

@bluebears: I don’t think you are being insensitive. I have an elderly neighbour facing repossession because of their reckless spending. I also know others who face homeless through no fault of their own, so it is hard to feel sympathy for someone who has incurred a debt of such magnitude through their own financial ineptitude. Moreover, with her rich and powerful friends Leiboviz and her children(?) are not going to be on the streets so I shall spare my sympathy for those who might be and those who already are there.
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Penny
08/17/09

@bluebears: According to many people, they are. Those people would never, EVER do anything wrong. No sir.
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Flackette Goes Retro
08/17/09

@bluebears: I agree completely. Tragic is the person who whose cancer will not be diagnosed until too late because they just lost their insurance when they were laid off, or the woman who has to make a choice between terminating a pregnancy or being unable to feed the children she already has. There are many great tragedies in life, but I can't see that the debts of a well-known photographer, who has well-connected friends and is still in the prime of her career and able to earn money, make the cut.
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Penny
08/17/09

@Rare Affinity: Your comment sparked my memory about Maxed Out. Have you seen it? So heartbreaking, the story of the woman who was in debt and killed herself because of the shame/fear. And those debt collectors they spoke with acting like it was some game, like they were on the hunt. They would threaten to publish people's debts in their local newspapers. It was totally depressing...
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Edited by Penny at 08/17/09 2:49 PM Penny was starred Penny was unstarred

bluebears
08/17/09

@Penny: Perfection must always be strived (word?) for!!!
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bluebears
08/17/09

@Penny: Oh man. Those people talk to you like you're fucking dirt. I had a mix up about a law school loan payment once and the women who called me seriously acted like I murdered a room full of children.
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Laulau
08/17/09

@bluebears: Eh, I think it's tragic in the classic sense: someone of greatness (in whatever sense or senses) who then falls down. Clearly it's not heartbreaking in the way that it is when people who have worked hard all their years, at crap jobs, lose their homes, or get sick, or whatever. I don't ache for Leibovitz. But I still think it's sad, and shocking, and kind of a good reminder about taking care of yourself.
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Rare Affinity
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
Leibovitz is following a long tradition of great artists going broke from Rembrant to Mozart, the latter like Holbein, ending up in an unmarked communal grave.
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NellMood
08/17/09

In reply to Annie Leibovitz's Financial Woes Enormous, Irrationally Disappointing
She has some young children, doesn't she? I think that makes the situation more troubling.
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