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This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
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Dirk Anger
09/29/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
She was a minor and she was intoxicated and she was raped when she said no.

Any of the tree circumstances would make it rape, but it happens all three checked.

I guess what happens is people hear one of them and there being some technicality and assumes the other two are not happening. (Not saying whoever mentions only one of them doesn't have that precise intention).
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Mr_Human
09/29/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
I ind this all very depressing. Women I know -- women! -- think he should be released because a) he's sexy and a great filmmaker, and b) it's ancient history. I have to convince myself that this is coming from some sense of not wanting to look prudish in the face of Europe's apparent unconcern with rape. I can't imagine they really feel this way, right?
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Catikins
09/29/09

@Mr_Human: most don't. my mom (French) listens to the French radio and TV. The overwelming majority of callers believe Polanski should be extradited and serve his sentence for the rape of a 13-year old. Yes, they used the word rape.

It's just the cultural talking heads who believe they (the intelligentsia) should not have to follow the same rules we civilians do.
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bluebears
09/29/09

@Catikins: that is extremely comforting. I'm glad to hear that.
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Dirk Anger
09/29/09

@Mr_Human: We're not unconcerned by rape, we're unconcerned about Roman Polanski. I haven't heard anything about his detention in national radio or papers, only here. And I only knew about him being accused of rape because they said it in Hard Candy (and I thought he had served time, I didn't know he ws still wanted)
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KATE!
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
legal question to anyone who may know: does his jumping bail before official sentencing invalidate the plea bargin? if it does, can he be prosecuted on charges that actually reflect his crimes (ie, rape not unlawful sex)? or does the guilty plea still stand and he will just have additional charges of escape brought?
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ArtfulSlinger
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
The last thing I think I can ever say on this topic is: I think its strange that we ourselves are guilty of doing what Whoopi did today and putting degrees on rape. For some reason, it is not enough for a lot of people that he was in deed found guilty of rape, be it statutory, but he was found guilty and fled actually doing the time. Every time one of us throws in the intimate details of that night, the drugs, the type of intercourse, etc., makes it seem that we really need to "prove" that this was rape, when in fact it was. Simply stated, the man committed a crime, plead guilty and for some reason, as yet to serve his time. For us to discuss the severity of the attack takes away from the fact that any way you look at this - it was rape.
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VirginiaDentata
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
He raped a child. Someone we deem to be too young to consume alcohol or tobacco, too young to drive a car, too young to vote, too young to buy a movie depicting the sex acts that she is too young to participate in, and too young to check out a book at the local library. In short, someone who is too young to take care of herself. And he gave her illegal drugs, illegal alcohol, and then forced illegal acts on her.

WHO THE FUCK CARES if he's good at making pretty images on celluloid?! He may be a great cook, too. Hey, maybe he's good at solving the Jumble. It does not have any bearing on the fact that he is a fucking child rapist.
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Kristinkles Ingabogovinanana
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
This entire issue makes me want to rethink my no alcohol during the week stance (I'm getting really fat from all the delicious pumpkin beer) and finish the lovely Cabernet Sauvignon that awaits me in my liquor cabinet. Something about repeated headdesking, and copious mentions of France and baguettes, respectively.

Also, I am devastated at the loss of this delightful-looking young man's masterclass. A true travesty.
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BabyJane promoted this comment Edited by Kristinkles Ingabogovinanana at 09/28/09 5:08 PM

randomnessish
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
I remember one French professor (a young man in his 30's from South America who lived in Paris who was very gay and very urbane) saying that "Europeans consider women to reach maturity around 15," after saying a 15 year old Carla Bruni was "alluring" and "sexy."
So maybe that has something to do with France's stance? Although I'm inclined to think it's just the French being...well...French. What, did no one see this coming?
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MyNameIsChris
09/28/09

@randomnessish: Well the age of consent in France is 15. Spain is 13, the youngest in Europe. In general the age of consent tends to be lower in European countries than in the US. Of course, that doesn't mean you don't have to abide by the laws of the country you're in - and certainly doesn't have anything to do with the issue of drugging a person or taking advantage of them from a position of authority.
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Edited by MyNameIsChris at 09/28/09 4:50 PM MyNameIsChris was starred MyNameIsChris was unstarred

lurkerbynature
09/28/09

@randomnessish: By that standard, she was still sexually immature and under the age of consent.
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stonebiscuit rolled a 1 on initiative
09/28/09

@lurkerbynature: Besides which, according to testimony, she said no. So it doesn't matter how old she was.
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Dirk Anger promoted this comment

Dirk Anger
09/29/09

@MyNameIsChris:
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nyc-caribbean-ragazza
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
Have the people who are so quick to defend him read the victim's testimony?

Do they know what he plead guilty to?

Mel Gibson was slammed for his drunken anti-jewish rant (nobody should work with him ever again!!) but I guess drugging and raping is okay.

Speaking of France remember this controversy?:

Gerard Depardieu: "I don't understand why rape is seen as bad in this country. In [France], I've raped several women." Was it a foreign language-based misunderstanding? Or did he mean it? Depardieu was once quoted in a Time magazine story suggesting he'd participated in a group rape at age nine - a mistake, it was later decided, due to a misinterpretation of what he had said in French. He's reportedly been far more careful about insisting upon accurate translations ever since.
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BabyJane promoted this comment

YourScreenplaySucks
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
I really don't understand some of the statements in those articles - the people supporting him don't seem like sociopaths, so is it that they're not aware that the victim's account describes a forcible rape? They believe this is a matter of a consensual affair btwn an adult & a minor? Do we have any French readers who can describe how this is being covered in France?

Also this - "Despite the philistine nature of the collusion that has now occurred, we came to honor Roman Polanski as a great artist..." - stfu forever, Debra Winger. Trust me, he's not planning to cast you in his next movie.
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Edited by YourScreenplaySucks at 09/28/09 4:28 PM

Highsmith
09/28/09

@YourScreenplaySucks: "Trust me, he's not planning to cast you in his next movie."

Of course not, she's WAY TOO OLD.
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PilgrimSoul
09/28/09

@YourScreenplaySucks: I think it's the whole "artists are TORTURED" thing to a significant degree, and also that his movies are brilliant, and people are (incorrectly) trying to reconcile their love of his movies with the act. I don't understand why their little brains can't hold together if Roman Polanski is both a good artist and a rapist, but then, I feel like there is a significant portion of the human race whose reasoning and reading comprehension skills are poor. If nothing else, the internet is proof of this.
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ArtfulSlinger
09/28/09

@YourScreenplaySucks: I think its the same thing that happened with OJ Simpson (the only good example I could think of). Most people knew that he was responsible for those murders, in fact claims courts agreed on that, but in the eyes of the law, he was found not guilty of murder. While the victim's account of the incident is horrific, its not what he was found guilty of. At the end of the day, a young girl was raped - either thanks to the aid of drugs or just because she was legally unable to give consent. But I think Hollywood and his supporters are holding onto the actual verdict that was given to him, one with a bit more flexible interpretation.
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greeneyedfem
09/28/09

@PilgrimSoul: I don't understand why their little brains can't hold together if Roman Polanski is both a good artist and a rapist

I think this also has to do with rape culture. You see the same thing when some clean-cut college student is accused of rape or sexual assault, this kind of "but . . . but . . he couldn't have! he's such a nice/normal/non-violent guy!" As if being able to come across as a friendly person or pleasant coworker is incompatible with objectifying women, seeing women's desires as less important than your own, or thinking that women exist in relation to your own sexual desires.

Rapist=evil, so no one who isn't pure evil could ever be a rapist, right? It's a kind of cultural denial.
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sequined
09/28/09

@PilgrimSoul: It's like how it's difficult to listen to music by artists you know are total tool boxes (radio stations banning Kanye, for instance?). I think our culture has wrapped up celebrities/celebrity culture/the arts/fame/etc. so much into one weird, incomprehensible package, that we don't know if we can like a person separate from his/her "art" or from his/her "celebrity persona."

Plus, we Amurricans hate thinking hard.
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YourScreenplaySucks
09/28/09

@ArtfulSlinger: To continue with the OJ parallel, since I believe he committed the crime, my response to the verdict was "he was found not guilty, so that's it. It sucks, but he won his day in court". However, there is no scenario in which I would then give OJ a standing ovation at an awards ceremony, as happened with at the Oscars with Polanski, or make it my business to give hysterical, fiercely defensive quotes to the press about what a great man he is. I can acknowledge his rights under the law without starting a fan club.

That's what's disturbing to me about his supporters - their behavior goes beyond a dispassionate reading of the law. It just comes off like a cover for the fact that they don't give a shit what he did because he's a great artiste (or don't believe the victim).
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Edited by YourScreenplaySucks at 09/28/09 5:24 PM

tomboygirl
09/28/09

@PilgrimSoul: I just need to publicly state that I agree 100 percent with Pilgrim Soul on the rapist Polanski topic. (Previous high: 46 percent.) ;')
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YourScreenplaySucks promoted this comment Edited by tomboygirl at 09/28/09 5:27 PM tomboygirl was starred tomboygirl was unstarred

ArtfulSlinger
09/28/09

@YourScreenplaySucks: Agreed. I'm a fan of his early work, but Im in no position to do business with him or applaud him at the Oscars, so there is nothing I can do. I just think to Hollywood, and possible performers in general, its not that weird to sleep with someone not of consensual age b/c of some bs about performers maturing easier. I think its the same thing about how its okay to sexualize young girls in entertainment. Blame misogyny, sexism or just plain idiocy, but it seems easily dismissed that statutory rape is still rape. Or maybe its b.c industry folks are tool bags.
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YourScreenplaySucks
09/28/09

@tomboygirl: In the event that I lack capacity to kvetch on the Polanski matter, which is likely after tonight's party, I have granted PS commenting power of attorney to kvetch on my behalf.
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Dirk Anger
09/29/09

@PilgrimSoul: I think it's much worse than that: It's just bout popularity. I recently found out of a support page for a convicted boy who confessed to raping and killing her girlfried. Appearently he was kind of popular in his city, and there are hundreds of people posting there, things in the lines of "everybody makes mistakes, and why are you getting so worked up about a girl you don't even know" (and yes, sadly, I'm quoting).
OJ's case comes to mind too.
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keldo
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
Why not step up and deal with the consequences, Polanski. Think of it as closure. The world has better causes to deal with.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@keldo: oh, cause he's a coward.
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Pantra
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
I like how a victim's feelings suddenly matter very much when she wants to let it go, or says she's over it. It's not like rape victims who'd like to brutally maim their rapists get their wishes taken into consideration.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@Pantra: Just like the conditions inside American prisons only seems to be a big deal when men are "falsely" accused of rape.
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funzette
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
This guy's lastest Facebook post:

Sept 28, 09
current mood: devastated
currently listening to: bladerunner soundtrack

question. if a tortured genius rapes a child, and he is manhandled at a film festival and returned to his oppressor, and i am deprived of the masterclass that is my birthright, whom among us is the most victimized?

answer. it is you. for never seeing the art i could have produced. free roman, save yourself.

(sent from my iphone)

Debra Winger and Whoopi Goldberg like this.
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quatrevingtquatre
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
This whole thing disgusts me to no end. I was molested as a child and had to testify against my BFF's uncle (the molester) in the trial. He was sent to jail and even though I am 100% better than I was at age 10, I cannot even begin to fathom if he hadn't gone to jail and how that would make me feel.
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my cousin is an ape
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
"His victim, Samantha Geimer, who long ago identified herself, has joined in Polanski's bid for dismissal, saying she wants the case to be over. She sued Polanski and reached an undisclosed settlement."

I can understand just wanting this to be over after so many years, but in fleeing he broke more laws. He should be prosecuted for all of his crimes.
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andBegorrah promoted this comment

andBegorrah
09/28/09

@my cousin is an ape: Interestingly, Geimer, while still remarkably generous about him and the whole case, is actually quoted as saying, "I wish he would return to America so the whole ordeal can be put to rest for both of us" ([archives.starbulletin.com]), and yet members of the media and the public interpret that as her wanting it dropped. There is some ambiguity there - and it's irrelevant anyway, as it's not a civil trial - but it doesn't sound like she thinks he should be let off.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@andBegorrah: I read that quote elsewhere today and I am amazed anew at the media's general mendacity.
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PilgrimSoul
09/28/09

@bluebears: Mendacity is a big word, there, ahoy.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@PilgrimSoul: I owe it all to my homeschooling.
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my cousin is an ape
09/28/09

@andBegorrah: Damn you, Yahoo! News! Hmm . . . it's from the AFP, maybe there's some bias. [news.yahoo.com]
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morninggloria
09/28/09

In reply to This Roman Polanski Thing? International Clusterfuck
I didn't realize that "surviving the Holocaust" came with a "and now France will protect you if you ever drug and rape a 13 year old girl" clause.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@morninggloria: no its true. A friend of the family has parents who are survivors and they are always being offered asylum in France for any and all rape charges, when they inform said French official that they've never raped anyone confusion abounds.
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LouisiAnna
09/28/09

@bluebears: You just got so high-fived in my mind, man.
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bluebears
09/28/09

@LouisiAnna: So that's what I just felt!
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lalaland13
09/28/09

@morninggloria: Why oh why must America be so uncouth in matters of rape? An Academy award + years in self-imposed exile + Holocaust survivor = victim! Always. And if he had a People's Choice award, he would be eligible for sainthood.
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morninggloria
09/28/09

@lalaland13: And now the French are taking up their baguettes against the Americans who want to prosecute him. It's like that scene in Beauty And The Beast when all of the furniture in the Beast's castle take up arms against the angry townsfolk.

Yes, I have always pictured French people to be angry weapon yielding furniture. No, I have never been to France.
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lalaland13
09/28/09

@morninggloria: Wait, you mean French people aren't like that? Sacre bleu! Well, I suppose it will be the Big Macs against the baguettes then.
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greeneyedfem
09/28/09

@lalaland13: All he needs is for Kanye to interrupt one of his acceptance speeches and he's gold.
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VirginiaDentata
09/28/09

@morninggloria: You know, as a Frenchie, I was slightly offended at your comment. But then I realized, "eh, I do look a leetle like an angry bar stool."
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ozu
09/29/09

@greeneyedfem: Thanks Roman, and I'mma let you finish, but Thomas Aquinas was the best rape apologist of all time.
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