As someone who has had the joy of experiencing this scenario, please allow me to vouch for the fact that getting really wasted is very different from getting drugged by a douchebag, and then having god knows what happen to you.
This happened to my best friend and I at a bar we always went to (thought it was a safe place - first mistake!) while we were in college. We left our drinks on the bar to go feed the jukebox, which seemed fine to us (see above!). On the way back, a couple dudes who always were hitting on us, but who seemed like okay dudes from the brief history with them, basically blocked us and were insistent we have a chat right there (tolerating annoying and, as it turns out, rapey dudes - second mistake!).
I will never forget the sensation of physical and mental paralysis while sitting on a bar stool, after having a single drink, then having no memory at all until I woke up the next morning. After eventually reconnecting with my friend, and trying to figure out what on earth had happened for hours on end, we figured we needed a third party's perspective. We went back to said bar, at which time the door man (who we'd known from going there all the time) laughed about how "f'd up" we'd been the prior evening, then advised us that we'd gotten into a cab with several boys many, many hours before we awoke later, and that was all we could find out.
Still wish I knew what happened that night, but I do know that most of the guys we knew were convinced that nothing could have happened, and that we just drank too much (being friends with dudes who acted like fratty dicks while maintaining their good times indie cred -- third mistake!) So apparently not much has changed in the past 12 years or so.
@pursedangler: I said almost the exact same thing below. It is completely different. Paralysis is the best word for it. The feeling that you didn't have control over your movements and that odd sensation of claustrophobia-- being trapped in your own body.
It's awful and it should not be treated so dismissively. #daterapedrugs
@pursedangler: That sounds terrifying. Luckily most of the girls I've known who have been roofied (or, you know, lied all about it for kicks and don't know the effects of one drink on their systems) figured something was up before any creeps could make a move and got me or someone else to take them home. #daterapedrugs
(Sorry if this has already been posted here)
A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. Fuck, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all.
Instead of that bullshit, how about:
If a woman is drunk, don't rape her. If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her. If a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her. If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her. If a woman is jogging in a park at 5AM, don't rape her. If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her. If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her. If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her. If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her. If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her. If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her. If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her. If your step-daughter is watching TV, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her. If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend. If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police. If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and report him as a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, and sons of friends that it's not okay to rape someone.
Don't just tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape. Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x, y, or z. Don't imply that it's in any way her fault. Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl. Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can too help yourself. Rape is not about sex, it's about control and power, and what kind of power comes from taking advantage of others? No power anyone should ever desire.
@pesematology: I just read this a little late but I'd like to add to this by stating when it is actual rape being committed. If any of the following scenarios occur while a man is trying have intercourse or initiate intercourse or sex of any kind: If she says no, then it is rape. If she says "meh", then it is rape. If she can't utter one syllable independently, then it's rape. If she says "I dunno" and looks around, then it's rape. If she is polite to you in short sentences that end in "yeah soooo...I should find my friends."Continuing to trap her in a corner and put drugs in her coke and lime and then taking her home to have sex with her is rape. If she is in your bed passed out, then its rape. If she is in your bed, slightly coherent and making out with you but suddenly doens't want to go futher and says "I don't think we should.." but you keep going, it is still rape.
Sometimes you have to lead a horse to water. Men who rape need to realize when the rape occurs because while they may agree no means no they don't seem to understand the diverse and full range of No's that a woman has in her repertoire. No isn't just no but so is indecisiveness, incohernece, and passive brushing off. #daterapedrugs
@pesematology: heh, I know. I thought I would just state the obvious, just in case.
That said, I wish I would get more mass emails like this from female family members/colleagues/acquaintances i foolishly gave my email to, and less of the 'OMG DON'T GO OUTSIDE AT NIGHT GIRLS, DON'T DO IT!!!!' type... #daterapedrugs
@ZemarSea Urchin: If you're in a situation where the woman says "I dunno" or "meh," how is that rape? If you're in a situation where sex is about to take place, doesn't it make sense for both parties to make it clear they're on the same page? If the guy's intentions are for sex and the girl's aren't, then doesn't she need to say, "No" so he knows she isn't consenting? If you're so passive/indecisive, maybe you're not ready to go to a bar and interact with other adults. #daterapedrugs
@Sadako: Consent must be present for sexual activities. The absence of resistance is not the same as the presence of consent. It's the responsibility of the initiator of activity to re-establish consent if it seems to be in doubt. Regardless of what you may think about women being sexually available by default, the law (at least in Ohio) says otherwise. #daterapedrugs
@Sadako: My point is that some women, for better or worse, can be uncertain of what they want to do and so use passive language or action hoping that the other person will just give up and leave it alone. There are situations where two people can be at the "no return" moment and for various reasons she may want him to back off. My point is that disinterest, indecisiveness, inebriation, incoherence, or uncertainty are all clear signs that sex is not a go. A lack of yes is not equal to consent. And just because your mid coitus or about to get it on doesn't mean you can't stop what your doing and take a breather. No isn't really just no, no can be communicated on different levels and behooves a man to figure that out. Though I think many men have got a clue there are still enough of them that need to understand this. #daterapedrugs
@pesematology: But if the person, male or female, doesn't know that their partner isn't consenting, I don't see how it's rape. I think that we should tell guys not to do anything if they're with a woman who's unwilling. But women should make an effort to do more than say, "Meh" or look around all lost and confused. Isn't saying, "No, I don't want to have sex with you" a lot more empowered than any of those mealy mouthed examples "Meh..." "I dunno...")? #daterapedrugs
@Sadako: I think I get what you're trying to say, that if we want men to understand that we mean it when we say "no" then we also should say "yes" like we mean it too, when applicable. But silence (or confusion) should never be interpreted as consent.
Regardless of whether you "see how" it's rape, however, the law does. #daterapedrugs
As someone who has been drugged, I would like to suggest that the author of the Daily Fail article actually try out one of the various date rape drugs and report back.
Being drugged by one of these cocktails is so vastly different than being drunk.
You're not tipsy-- you're disoriented. You're not slurring your words--you're unable to form coherent thoughts.
You're not just walking awkwardly-- you're unable to physically control your body.
You don't just "black out"-- you forget what happened to you.
Don't minimize these drugs. And even if they only happen in 5% of cases (reported and accurately tested cases), 5% is too much. I'm sorry, I have a no tolerance policy on rape. I think the Daily Fail should try to aspire to that standard. #daterapedrugs
Dr Adam Burgess and Daniel Martin my question to you is this; a woman who has not been drinking heavily suddenly has reason to suspect that she has been drugged. Fortunately she has a friend that can help her home safely thus avoiding an actual rape. How would this woman be treated if she wanted to file a police report of a suspected drugging?
I can tell you this; the general response would be to trivialize the situation that she had too much to drink and hey, it’s not like she was raped anyway so get over it. This in itself is enough to stop the average woman from going to the police when she is already feeling scared and sick and just wants to go home. This happens more often then anyone cares to admit. THAT sirs, makes your argument regarding low drug statistics as evidence of low drugging activity invalid.
Argh! This sort of thing makes me so angry!
/sorry for the rant #daterapedrugs
@Peebers says what?: YES totally on the attitude of police officers in my experience.
I was convinced that my ex-boyfriend was drugging me. After one blackout night, I slugged over to the health center and wanted them to do a specified drug test so I could file a report. They spent 2 hours trying to convince me that it was a waste of money and that I was likely just hungover. The police officer was dismissive and acted like I was wasting his time, even when the test came back positive.
We cannot perpetuate this attitude. Just because it's a low percentage of rape cases, doesn't mean we should accept the behavior. It should not happen. PERIOD. #daterapedrugs
@Peebers says what?: this is so true. I mentioned below that this happened to one of my best friends recently... and the hospital convinced her that she didn't need a rape kit, drug tests, or ANYTHING because "Well, it doesn't look like you were raped, and also, you were drinking, so come on. Be honest with yourself." That and the similar reaction by other people in her life led her to first question her own knowledge of her experience, and then just accept the injustice without filing any reports because no one would believe her anyway.
It's fucking insane. We already know that rapes are under-reported. Further, that rapes that involve partners, alcohol, or drugs are hardly ever prosecuted. So WHY, again, could anyone be expected to press charges or make reports when a) nobody will take them seriously and b) it seems as if nothing will come of it?
Low stats reflecting reality? I repeat: fucking insane. #daterapedrugs
@Peebers says what?: I had a similar experience. I would not say with confidence I was drugged, but I may have been raped. I was in a complete blackout and had drank substantially less than I usually did. A campus escort eventually found me stumbling around campus (about a mile and a half from the party I started at) without shoes, covered in vomit and blood, walked me home, at which point my friends said I looked almost dead and took me to ER. They didn't perform a rape kit and the police who came by (a requirement in our area for any alcohol or potentially sexual crime) basically said, "It sounds like you may have done some things tonight that you'll regret, but I don't think you were raped." My GP gave me the morning after pill later, but my experience with PD and the ER after this incident were incredibly dismissive, compounded by the fact that the area I lived was a heavy drinking college ghetto. A drunk girl in ER on a Saturday night didn't warrant a lot of attention, regardless of what may have happened to her. #daterapedrugs
@curiousgeorgiana: Wow. Just... wow. Some days we get celebs and kitties, and some days on Jezebel, especially in the comments, I get nothing but rage-a-hol. You musy have so much confidence in the system! #daterapedrugs
@booter26: and @curiousgeorgiana: I'm so sorry what you two went through. I really feel for you both. Between this and the story of the gang rape in the Bay Area (where I mostly grew up) I feel like giving up on humanity. #daterapedrugs
"The study, published in the British Journal of Criminology, found that three quarters of students identified drink-spiking as leading to an important risk of sexual assault - more than drinking too much alcohol."
well, duh. when someone is spiking my drink, someone is clearly demonstrating intent to do something bad to me, probably sexually assault. when i drink to much, i don't have any intention of being sexually assalted. so yea, i would say drink-spiking is a much more important risk. #daterapedrugs
Good points that Rohypnol is about the least likely thing to be used these days as a mickey. Women are scared about drink spiking, but not particularly well informed. More education (and less drink spiking) is needed.
And the blogs won't let me leave an irate comment. Boo! #daterapedrugs
@bowleserised: As you and others have pointed out, the Daily Mail article is so poorly written - it might as well be about Holocaust denial, for all the sense it's science (or lack cited thereof) and logic make. It's a hurried, sloppy bit of fluff with no substance and no support in it's points.
Hell, the quotes are barely even assertive.
It does, however, raise a basic point that people forget: Simply being drunk is hazardous. If it weren't, we (and the rest of the world) wouldn't have DUI laws, and laws banning public intoxication; Bars would not be liable for overserving people and there would not be age-restrictions on consumption. Just drinking too much alcohol is fatal, and kills a number of people every year. By drinking, you are reducing your own safety and potentially that of those around you. You are altering the odds, however incrementally.
That is not to say that a woman who is drunk is to blame, as the article strongly implies, for the consequences of drinking, simply because there is no-one actively poisoning her (as Mr. Pitcher so aptly notes in the article you've linked).
There is a difference between blame and responsibility in social interactions. Blame has an implication of guilt and shame, and a more direct causal relationship. It is a mechanism that offers an illusion of explanation, and identifies and scorns whoever it's directed towards, forsaking any other factors and existing outside the limits of logic.
Responsibility, however, is always shared, no matter the proportion. It is our responsibility to maintain some level of personal safety. It is our responsibility to aid in ensuring others' personal safety. It is by exercising these responsibilities that we move toward a more understanding, less violent, and more productive future, eventually removing the language of blame from the conversation. #daterapedrugs
@bowleserised: My, that's awfully condescending. Spin? I read the articles carefully. Apparently you are illiterate regarding the differences between responsibility and blame, and do not understand that alcohol itself is in fact, deadly by itself when ingested.
I have blamed no one, apologized for no one, "spun" nothing, and in no way denied that rape is a devastating crime that needs to be eliminated. A victim is not responsible for being raped.
I don't agree with you or the Father, however, that anyone is entitled to drink to excess - it endangers the drinker and others around them. The law, doctors, and common sense are in agreement here: when alcohol is involved, people behave more dangerously - people are more likely to rape, people are more susceptible to rape.
Those are simple facts - that have no bearing on "blame." #daterapedrugs
@Jack_Burton: The context was rape. That's what he was talking about, that's what this post is about. Rape. Not drink driving. Not beating someone because you've had a skinful. Rape. #daterapedrugs
And just for the record... It has been a number of years since I worked as a forensic Sexual Assault Nurse (doing rape kits in emergency rooms) but let me give you the two most common scenarios:
1) A woman who has been drugged comes into the ED 2-3 days later because she realizes 'something happened' - don't forget that both of these drugs - most especially rohypnol causes amnesia (that's one of the reasons it's not approved for use in US). GHB and rohypnol are out of the system in 48 hours or less. The average time, in my experience of these victims coming in was about 3 days later. If they come in at all.
2) a woman is found unconscious and brought into the ED. a drug tox is done - BUT! GHB and rohypnol are not tested for in routine drug screens - that is a specialized forensic drug screen that 99 times out of 100 needs to be sent out and when it does, there needs to be a chain of custody so it could be admissible.
Someone mentioned 5% of rapes were found in a study to be a factor - but probably because of the amnesia factor this is sorely underreported. #daterapedrugs
My aunt told me that in college, she was at a bar with friends. She left her mini-wine bottle thing with her female friend while hitting the bathroom. She drank the whole thing when she got back and left with said friend because a guy was being a creep to her. My aunt, who had just that mini-bottle, max three glasses, then blacked out when she got back to their apartment.
So I guess she just imagined what was likely a date-rape drug even if there was no sex involved? #daterapedrugs
@w33kdays: That's just it. This paper and articles based on it make it seem as if women are pretending they were drugged to excuse irresponsible behavior – but so many of the women I know who have suspected or confirmed that they were drugged ended up going straight to the ER or to bed, by themselves. They had nothing to excuse. #daterapedrugs
Does it matter, Daily Mail? Drugs, no drugs, drunk, not drunk -- does a woman deserve to be raped? Should a woman have to fear this? Better look after your mothers, wives, and daughters, after some of your less discriminating readers get a load of this farce you deign to call journalism.
This just means that we should be in the home doing womanly things like knitting. You can't slip roofies into someone's knitting basket. Drinking is for boys. #daterapedrugs
@Ulookinatmyjunk, JOC: I know. You should see the sock I tried to make while tipsy. Cables are all crooked! Oh wait, that isn't what you mean.. #daterapedrugs
As someone who has been roofied once and has friends who have been slipped a mickey a couple of times, it is *so* different than just getting drunk. It's disorienting, scary and really shakes you to the core.
When drinking to excess, you know what you're in for. I have experienced that as well. The big difference is you know what's coming. If I down six shots and two beers I know I will be drunk and have impaired judgement. If I drink something that has had something added to it, I'm not expecting to have impaired judgement.
When I was drugged I had had two beers over a three hour period. I was not drunk, but when the dickface that slipped something into my drink unzipped my kneehigh boots and I couldn't remember how to work a zipper, I knew something was wrong and ran. I then proceeded to vomit for the next six hours. So no, Daily Fail, it wasn't an excuse for me to act a fool. #daterapedrugs
@flaxen_vixen: Word. I've been black-out drunk before and I've been roofied before, and there is a huge difference. If not for the bartender who knew me well enough to know I would never be that drunk after two beers, the guy carrying me out of the bar that night would have had no resistance, because I was honestly incapacitated. #daterapedrugs
@BornYesterday: So what you're saying is that to protect ourselves from rapists, we need to drink *more* so the bartender recognizes us. I can drink to that.
In all seriousness tho, that's terrifying. #daterapedrugs
Thank goodness someone is finally standing up for the rapists! Because if a woman gets drunk all on her own, she's asking to be violated. Plus, if she didn't have a glass filled with some sort of digestible liquid in it, there wouldn't be anything for a rapist to drop a roofie in, so it's really her own fault for being thirsty, anyway... I mean, if such a thing were ever done, which it isn't.
PilgrimSoul promoted this comment
Edited by Mireille is German for the Bart, the. at 10/27/09 12:08 PM
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10/27/09
This happened to my best friend and I at a bar we always went to (thought it was a safe place - first mistake!) while we were in college. We left our drinks on the bar to go feed the jukebox, which seemed fine to us (see above!). On the way back, a couple dudes who always were hitting on us, but who seemed like okay dudes from the brief history with them, basically blocked us and were insistent we have a chat right there (tolerating annoying and, as it turns out, rapey dudes - second mistake!).
I will never forget the sensation of physical and mental paralysis while sitting on a bar stool, after having a single drink, then having no memory at all until I woke up the next morning. After eventually reconnecting with my friend, and trying to figure out what on earth had happened for hours on end, we figured we needed a third party's perspective. We went back to said bar, at which time the door man (who we'd known from going there all the time) laughed about how "f'd up" we'd been the prior evening, then advised us that we'd gotten into a cab with several boys many, many hours before we awoke later, and that was all we could find out.
Still wish I knew what happened that night, but I do know that most of the guys we knew were convinced that nothing could have happened, and that we just drank too much (being friends with dudes who acted like fratty dicks while maintaining their good times indie cred -- third mistake!) So apparently not much has changed in the past 12 years or so.
Good times. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
It's awful and it should not be treated so dismissively. #daterapedrugs
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A lot has been said about how to prevent rape. Women should learn self-defense. Women should lock themselves in their houses after dark. Women shouldn't have long hair and women shouldn't wear short skirts. Women shouldn't leave drinks unattended. Fuck, they shouldn't dare to get drunk at all.
Instead of that bullshit, how about:
If a woman is drunk, don't rape her. If a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her. If a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her. If a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her. If a woman is jogging in a park at 5AM, don't rape her. If a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her. If a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her. If a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her. If a woman is in a coma, don't rape her. If a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her. If a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her. If a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her. If your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her. If your step-daughter is watching TV, don't rape her.
If you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her. If your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend. If your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police. If your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and report him as a rapist.
Tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, and sons of friends that it's not okay to rape someone.
Don't just tell your women friends how to be safe and avoid rape. Don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x, y, or z. Don't imply that it's in any way her fault. Don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl. Don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can too help yourself. Rape is not about sex, it's about control and power, and what kind of power comes from taking advantage of others? No power anyone should ever desire.
If you agree, repost it. It's important. #daterapedrugs
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Sometimes you have to lead a horse to water. Men who rape need to realize when the rape occurs because while they may agree no means no they don't seem to understand the diverse and full range of No's that a woman has in her repertoire. No isn't just no but so is indecisiveness, incohernece, and passive brushing off. #daterapedrugs
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That said, I wish I would get more mass emails like this from female family members/colleagues/acquaintances i foolishly gave my email to, and less of the 'OMG DON'T GO OUTSIDE AT NIGHT GIRLS, DON'T DO IT!!!!' type... #daterapedrugs
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Regardless of whether you "see how" it's rape, however, the law does. #daterapedrugs
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Being drugged by one of these cocktails is so vastly different than being drunk.
You're not tipsy-- you're disoriented. You're not slurring your words--you're unable to form coherent thoughts.
You're not just walking awkwardly-- you're unable to physically control your body.
You don't just "black out"-- you forget what happened to you.
Don't minimize these drugs. And even if they only happen in 5% of cases (reported and accurately tested cases), 5% is too much. I'm sorry, I have a no tolerance policy on rape. I think the Daily Fail should try to aspire to that standard. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
I can tell you this; the general response would be to trivialize the situation that she had too much to drink and hey, it’s not like she was raped anyway so get over it. This in itself is enough to stop the average woman from going to the police when she is already feeling scared and sick and just wants to go home. This happens more often then anyone cares to admit. THAT sirs, makes your argument regarding low drug statistics as evidence of low drugging activity invalid.
Argh! This sort of thing makes me so angry!
/sorry for the rant #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
I was convinced that my ex-boyfriend was drugging me. After one blackout night, I slugged over to the health center and wanted them to do a specified drug test so I could file a report. They spent 2 hours trying to convince me that it was a waste of money and that I was likely just hungover. The police officer was dismissive and acted like I was wasting his time, even when the test came back positive.
We cannot perpetuate this attitude. Just because it's a low percentage of rape cases, doesn't mean we should accept the behavior. It should not happen. PERIOD. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
It's fucking insane. We already know that rapes are under-reported. Further, that rapes that involve partners, alcohol, or drugs are hardly ever prosecuted. So WHY, again, could anyone be expected to press charges or make reports when a) nobody will take them seriously and b) it seems as if nothing will come of it?
Low stats reflecting reality? I repeat: fucking insane. #daterapedrugs
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well, duh. when someone is spiking my drink, someone is clearly demonstrating intent to do something bad to me, probably sexually assault. when i drink to much, i don't have any intention of being sexually assalted. so yea, i would say drink-spiking is a much more important risk. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
Wow, Daily Mail! You certainly are tenacious. Just when I think I can't dislike you more, WHAM! You prove me wrong. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
D'uh, but still, at least someone's saying it.
[blogs.telegraph.co.uk] #daterapedrugs
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[blogs.telegraph.co.uk]
Good points that Rohypnol is about the least likely thing to be used these days as a mickey. Women are scared about drink spiking, but not particularly well informed. More education (and less drink spiking) is needed.
And the blogs won't let me leave an irate comment. Boo! #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
Hell, the quotes are barely even assertive.
It does, however, raise a basic point that people forget: Simply being drunk is hazardous. If it weren't, we (and the rest of the world) wouldn't have DUI laws, and laws banning public intoxication; Bars would not be liable for overserving people and there would not be age-restrictions on consumption. Just drinking too much alcohol is fatal, and kills a number of people every year. By drinking, you are reducing your own safety and potentially that of those around you. You are altering the odds, however incrementally.
That is not to say that a woman who is drunk is to blame, as the article strongly implies, for the consequences of drinking, simply because there is no-one actively poisoning her (as Mr. Pitcher so aptly notes in the article you've linked).
There is a difference between blame and responsibility in social interactions. Blame has an implication of guilt and shame, and a more direct causal relationship. It is a mechanism that offers an illusion of explanation, and identifies and scorns whoever it's directed towards, forsaking any other factors and existing outside the limits of logic.
Responsibility, however, is always shared, no matter the proportion. It is our responsibility to maintain some level of personal safety. It is our responsibility to aid in ensuring others' personal safety. It is by exercising these responsibilities that we move toward a more understanding, less violent, and more productive future, eventually removing the language of blame from the conversation. #daterapedrugs
10/28/09
We move towards a less violent, more understanding and more productive future when people stop thinking they are entitled to rape.
10/28/09
I have blamed no one, apologized for no one, "spun" nothing, and in no way denied that rape is a devastating crime that needs to be eliminated. A victim is not responsible for being raped.
I don't agree with you or the Father, however, that anyone is entitled to drink to excess - it endangers the drinker and others around them. The law, doctors, and common sense are in agreement here: when alcohol is involved, people behave more dangerously - people are more likely to rape, people are more susceptible to rape.
Those are simple facts - that have no bearing on "blame." #daterapedrugs
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1) A woman who has been drugged comes into the ED 2-3 days later because she realizes 'something happened' - don't forget that both of these drugs - most especially rohypnol causes amnesia (that's one of the reasons it's not approved for use in US). GHB and rohypnol are out of the system in 48 hours or less. The average time, in my experience of these victims coming in was about 3 days later. If they come in at all.
2) a woman is found unconscious and brought into the ED. a drug tox is done - BUT! GHB and rohypnol are not tested for in routine drug screens - that is a specialized forensic drug screen that 99 times out of 100 needs to be sent out and when it does, there needs to be a chain of custody so it could be admissible.
Someone mentioned 5% of rapes were found in a study to be a factor - but probably because of the amnesia factor this is sorely underreported. #daterapedrugs
10/27/09
So I guess she just imagined what was likely a date-rape drug even if there was no sex involved? #daterapedrugs
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When drinking to excess, you know what you're in for. I have experienced that as well. The big difference is you know what's coming. If I down six shots and two beers I know I will be drunk and have impaired judgement. If I drink something that has had something added to it, I'm not expecting to have impaired judgement.
When I was drugged I had had two beers over a three hour period. I was not drunk, but when the dickface that slipped something into my drink unzipped my kneehigh boots and I couldn't remember how to work a zipper, I knew something was wrong and ran. I then proceeded to vomit for the next six hours. So no, Daily Fail, it wasn't an excuse for me to act a fool. #daterapedrugs
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In all seriousness tho, that's terrifying. #daterapedrugs
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