Jezebel 
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New York, 11:47 AM
Mon Nov 9
19 posts in the last 24 hours
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04/13/09
04/13/09
[oak.cats.ohiou.edu]
"1 in 12 males students surveyed had committed acts that met the legal definition of rape. Furthermore, 84% of the men who had committed such acts said what they had done was definitely not rape."
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Over the weekend, I had conversations about this with a good many people, both IRL and online.
[jezebel.com]
&
[jezebel.com]
What I think is really sad about the fracas here @ Jez is the missed opportunity to discuss what the different perceptions of what the rape scene meant (in and out of context of the film) - rather than the argument of whether or not someone's verbal interpretation of the action in the film was correct; missing the forest for the trees.
As to the question "is rape ever funny?" - I think that jokes involving rape, murder, genocide, child abuse, race, etc. - can only really work if they highlight absurdity and comment on a situation in a fresh way, that furthers a dialogue on the subject, rather than lazily going for shock value or reinforcing stereotypes.
The reason a joke like "The Aristocrats" works is because of the juxtaposition of disparate elements that makes the situation absurd to an extreme. The fact that all tellings of this joke are not "funny" to all people hinges on, and highlights, the fact that often - "it's the singer, not the song" that people can relate to, and nuances of performance can influence the reception of the larger work.
04/13/09
I have had numerous people tell me it wasn't rape.
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When I was 17 I got drunk at a really small New Year's party with just my close friends. One of them, a guy, spent a lot of time with me, making sure I was okay, and taking me to the porch for fresh air. I thought he was being nice. The next day, another guy friend who was there told me how the first guy had bragged that "[I] was totally drunk and [he] could have fucked [me] if [he] wanted to" but he chose not to, only because he didn't have a condom on him. Hearing this scared the shit out of me. I didn't think I could do anything, so I just made sure to not be alone with him. That problem took care of itself shortly after. After my boyfriend dumped me(for unrelated reasons) the safe-sex rapist sided with him, calling me a bitch and spreading lies about me.
That guy is basically the target audience for this movie and he would totally not see where the rape is.
04/13/09
if she's not a good person?
and it's okay if the rapist has some good
qualities
troubling
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Which is why I was very pissed at my boyf this weekend when I was trying to tell him about this scene, and how angry it made me because I was "date-raped", "grey-raped" or whatever the term is these days when you want to soft-pedal it (a rant for another time, I think) which happened when I was drunk. And the whole time I was talking, he had a stupid little smirk on his face. I flipped out.
I certainly hope that the little smirk was not an indication that he has done this before, like in college or something. I'm still steamed about it. But I don't want to pursue it. You know?
04/13/09
You're a man-hater! they sang. But who really hates men here? The media that purports to speak for all men when it celebrates rape and apologizes for assault, or a lowly woman who's had enough and wishes the so-called good guys would put their month where their mouths are?
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The discussions about this movie have made me think a lot about my own experiences and your mention that it happened "when [you were] drunk" have made me think about my own experience. I guess I've always thought that, about the first one that my being drunk certainly helped his cause but it was not wrong solely because I was drunk and had I been sober and it gone down the same way it would still be rape. I think this is what's lost in the rape under the influence discussions. Though in the case of this movie, it's clearly rape solely because she is intoxicated beyond the point of consent, that's not always the case with rape that involves alcohol and I wish that was discussed more. Sorry for that tangent...
04/13/09
So, yea for suppressing anger!
04/13/09
At the very least, there's no way she could have ridden on the back of a motorcycle - she'd have been unconscious withing 15 minutes of OD-ing on the pills /shots.
04/13/09
I do think sometimes that if I hadn't been drinking, I never would have even ended up kissing him, and that's what led to all the rest.
And I don't seriously think my boyfriend had actually done that, but it did annoy me that he can love me and know my history, and still be so clueless and downright rude! Makes me doubt any man will ever get it.
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@portia_sue: Oof. I'm sorry.
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I hope you will take the following the way it's meant.
Your last sentence? Based on the way you described the behaviors both leading up to it and following it, perhaps you need a wider, more representative research sample.
Because all the men in my life know I love to watch the Tennis Masters. (Fabulous men! Do amazing things! In my living room!) As a result, they generally do not disturb mid-match.
But because they know that? If they do interrupt? Then I put the remote down and listen, because whatever they're saying must be important.
Switch the genders in the roles, and you know what I'm saying?
04/13/09
Also, it surprises me that you got yelled at on Feministing. Usually when I'm there, I feel like I have the sensitivity levels of Rush Limbaugh. Has it changed recently?
04/13/09
And sometimes, I feel that way, too. When you expect certain men to behave in an adult, responsible, compassionate manner, you hate them and want them to be women. Luckily, I know few of these men and have lots of dudes that are down with being real humans and not assholes.
04/13/09
2. No one "tries" to make a cult classic. Cult classics happen. The fact that they actually tried to make this film subversive, reveals not only how formulaic it is, but how horribly executed it was.
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BTW - I hate that I feel like I have to caveat my hatred for this movie, but I saw it because I loved "Eastbound & Down" and "Footfist Way." I have no problem with dark comedy, as long as it's not an excuse for garbage.
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It's not that it couldn't have been done. Maybe there's an alternate version awaiting when the DVD comes out. They'd have to change a shitload, though.
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I was, however, confused as to why they didn't make it clear that the ending was an off-the-meds fantasy. I hated the movie anyway, but the ending would have been slightly better if they had made that point clear.
Even if it wasn't a fantasy, I don't think it was really a redemption arc...I still hated him.
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He does, of course, end up with the only likable character in the movie, though. Ugh.