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New York, 11:31 PM
Wed Nov 11
67 posts in the last 24 hours
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06/25/09
Visconti does a column called "Ask The White Guy" and it's often the same thing. He really does know what he's talking about, but things don't always come out right, I think. They do some really awesome round-table discussions with other diversity officers/experts every month or so. It's really worth checking out. From what I hear they're hitting some hard times lately :( so help a brother out!
but don't say "brother". I'm pretty sure that's in the "What Not to Say to Black Coworkers" one
06/25/09
Funny how "bro" sounds "white" and surferish, but "brother" sounds "black".
06/24/09
The forced relocation of Native Americans happened in the 1830's, right? and the Emancipation Proclamation didn't happen until 1862 or 1863.
Why does the government give free college to those of Native American descent but not those who are descended from the fucking people who were forced into slavery after that? Why monetarily acknowledge one major fuck up
but not the other?
Just wondering, it only seems fair that, if nothing else, they could do some little token gesture like that.
06/25/09
Also, any Native American alive today had ancestors who were treated like shit in our history. A black person could have ancestors who were free or black slaveholders themselves, or they may have come to the country after slavery.
Short answer: lack of money and political will
06/24/09
That being said, I'm glad that it does, especially considering that site has so many lists dedicated to other minority groups. It's not only a "now we'll add a list for white people for the sake of balance" thing, at least not to me. I think any opportunity one has to not just include white people in the conversation but to remind them that they have a race is a good thing.
06/24/09
Like you said, of course whites can't understand what it's like to be black in this country. Some white people definitely don't know that, which is sad. But the whole "you wouldn't get it 'cuz you're white" shouldn't be a conversation-ender, you know?
06/24/09
To me, pretending you don't notice people are different colors is actually the first sign. The most racist people I know say they are "color blind." You can see their eye color and you aren't afraid to say they are blond, right? So say they are light skinned or dark skinned or olive skinned or whatever. You seriously can't tell we are different colors?
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06/24/09
If you are asked what color you want on a new car you may say "white" White is a color. Every person on this earth is "colored" The first indication a person is a racist is when they talk about the color of a person. To talk about any person that way is wrong no matter what color their skin is. I don't identify with a color period.
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06/24/09
Yep. It is a privilege not to be acutely aware of this racism all the time. About a month ago, I was absolutely horrified at some words that came out of my mouth because I wasn't thinking. Luckily I was not in a public place, just in the car with two trusted friends who were forgiving about it, but I am still remorseful over it. Thanks for bringing this up. I'm sure those of us who have this privilege do such things all the time, and I'm relieved to hear someone I respect say it.
06/24/09
/sarcasm
06/24/09
And, hell, its not a damn gift! it was created through use of brute force and has been steadfastly propagated with repeated force and the creation of laws to prevent a change in the paradigm
06/24/09
06/24/09
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
The connotations wearing my nerves thin
Could it be semantics generating the mess we're in?
I understand that language breeds stereotype
But what's the explanation for the malice, for the spite?
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
I wasn't brought here, I was born
Circumsized, categorized, allegiance sworn,
Does this mean I have to take such shit
For being fairskinned? No!
I ain't a part of no conspiracy,
I'm just you're average Joe.
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Represents everything I hate,
The soap shoved in your mouth to cleanse the mind
The vast majority of sheep
A buttoned collar, starched and bleached
Constricting veins, the blood flow to the brain slows
They're so fuckin' ordinary white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
We're better off this way
Say what you're gonna say
So go ahead and label me
An asshole cause I can
Accept responsibility, for what I've done
But not for who I am
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
Don't call me white, Don't call me white
-Don't Call Me White.
NOFX.
I'm part German, part Northern European, part American Indian.
06/24/09
You're wrong about virtues of Christianity
And you're wrong if you agree with Sean Hannity
If you think that pride is about nationality, you're wrong
You're wrong when you imprison people turning tricks
And you're wrong about trickle down economics
If you think that punk rock doesn't mix with politics, you're wrong
You're wrong for hating queers and eating steers
If you kill for the thrill of the hunt
You're wrong 'bout wearing fur and not hating Ann Coulter
Cause she's a cunted cunt
You're wrong if you celebrate Columbus Day
And You're wrong if you think there will be a Judgement Day
If you're a charter member of the NRA, you're wrong
You're wrong if you support capital punishment
And you're wrong if you don't question your government
If you think her reproductive rights are inconsequent, you're wrong
You're wrong fighting Jihad, your blind faith in God
Your religions are all flawed,
You're wrong about drug use, when its not abuse
I hope you never reproduce
You're getting high on the downlow
A victim of Cointelpro
You're wrong and will probably never know.
06/24/09
But it is tiring to assume that all people of any race are the same as each other. And once the discussion can break from that, maybe we can get down to the nitty grity.
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06/24/09
(It's true though. White people - by and large and relative to people in poor Black neighborhoods where rap and hip hop were born - are kind of happy-go-lucky. And most of us are happy for you too...it's cute, to a point...but I'll admit Black folks are sometimes resentful that we can't relate to that happy-go-lucky spirit, which is part of a privilege born of our detriment...so yeah, there's THAT side of hip hop music that White people generally don't listen or relate to. You all mostly stick to "happy rap". It's all good...as in it makes sense.)
06/24/09
No, I totally agree around the hip hop thing, it was just the first thing that popped into my head around me being "white."
I guess my point is that I feel it's fundamentally different for a White person to feel thrown into a sack with everyone else White than it is for a person of color. White people are generally not looked at as being "representative" of their race, while POC often are.
I think the more exposure you have to people of different races, the more comfortable you feel overall. I have this thing I do with a Chinese friend where I will claim something is "Chinese" when I know it's, say, Japanese, and it totally works her up. It's hilarious. Just like I thought it was hilarious when one of my good friends in college always made fun of me for being, essentially, a caricature of a white person. In the end I think it's just erring on the side of caution, you know?
I don't mean to veer to far off topic here...I think what I am trying to say is that no one should ever say, "You're so XYZ" unless it's clear it's a joke.
06/24/09
it's fundamentally different for a White person to feel thrown into a sack with everyone else White than it is for a person of color. White people are generally not looked at as being "representative" of their race, while POC often are.
is absolutely right, and the "representative" thing is one of the bits unpacked out of the knapsack in the essay that will surely be linked somewhere in this comment thread, as it is in every thread dealing with race issues. Jokes about a dominant class are not nearly as offensive as jokes or even playful denigrating remarks about a disenfranchised class because ha ha, the dominant class still has the power and can afford to laugh about it. It's why I can laugh when people tell me "that is such a white person thing to do" but not when they say things like "oh my god, women, amirite?" as you mention. Whiteness, in our culture and apparently in Visconti's line of thinking* is a good thing, so saying "that's so white" is not the same as saying "that is so black," because blackness = bad for many people, and that fact is a painful one.
________
* I say this because he wants to "share" white privilege, which means whiteness is something people of color should aspire to. That's pretty fucked up, no matter what intentions are behind it.
06/24/09
I do find that "you're so Polish" in the right context is hilarious (for instance, my very close friends teasing me about my love of cabbage and potatoes).
06/24/09
You do bring up a very interesting point about race, however, in that that color of one's skin is salient while other things (ethnicity, heritage, religion and, to a lesser degree, sexuality) are not.
Growing up I had a friend who's father was Black, mother White. She appeared to be as White as could be, very pale skin, very curly blonde hair. I've never met another half-Black person who, literally, appeared White. Looking at her sister, however, one would probably assume she was half Black/White. Looking back it's very interesting to think about how differently she navigated her life. I find this in particular to be very fascinating, as well as within the Black community, issues around dark v. light skin.
06/24/09
That you are familiar enough with the nuances of Japanese vs. Chinese culture to be able to make that joke makes it that much more acceptable.
As I said upthread, it's about context and accuracy.
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06/24/09
For awhile, I thought the only way to deal with racism was to make jokes about it. Not sure what I think now.
06/24/09
When the Holocaust Museum shooting happened, I know Muslim Americans were holding their breath, hoping the shooter wasn't Middle Eastern in any way, shape or form. White people don't have to worry about that. Every time some serial killer turns out to be white, the culture at large doesn't tsk-tsk and shake it's head and mutter, "of course, a white guy." But other groups suffer discrimination when one of their own does something bad, because they are not viewed as individuals the way white folks are.
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OOh! Now that should be #10 on the list. Because I know if I said some shit like that at work I'd be put on somebody's watch list.
You're absolutely right.
06/24/09
A thing is not a privilege unless some other person/group doesn't have that thing (preferential treatment of some sort). White people need to not be privileged anymore - they (we) must no longer be favored in the justice system, housing, the workplace, the media, etc. I guess you could think of it as bringing other people up, but equality cannot be achieved unless the privileged group loses that privilege. It's untrue that equality will not result in losses for white people. It will result in the loss of UNEARNED, UNDESERVED privilege - something they (we) should never have had in the first place.
(I am going out for a few hours so I'm sorry if I don't respond to replies for a while.)
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Well-intentioned White people are always begging to know "what can I do to end racism"? Spread the word man, spread the word among your people. Until it becomes gospel.
And if you honestly try I promise you, you will find out exactly how much racism still exists.
06/24/09
06/25/09
06/24/09
For instance, Promise Keepers does this extremely creepy thing wherein they have a preacher give a speech about diversity and inclusion, and then they encourage the Promise Keepers who are not on the stage to crowd around whatever men of color are there and hug them. This is an invasion of personal space and totally belittling and dehumanizing. When I learned this I could not hide my shock.
The language of white privilege as a "gift that keeps on giving" is, as you say, paternalistic. It is similarly belittling and it takes for granted that the way to betterment is through increased whiteness for everyone. I think the message of inclusion has to focus more on integration, be it neighborhoods, congregations, schools, whatever, than on personal relationships and individual acts of meanness. Vast numbers of white people would rather focus on the latter because those are easier problems to tackle.
For more on (specifically) evangelicals and race relations, check out the work of Christian Smith, especially the book he co-authored with Michael Emerson, Divided by Faith.
06/24/09