Jezebel 
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New York, 8:03 AM
Sat Nov 28
29 posts in the last 24 hours
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12/02/08
12/02/08
Put another way: if the blood and gore were shown, there would be plenty of people complaining about it being shown. If it isn't, we have plenty of people complaining that it isn't. There's no happy medium when it comes to this.
12/02/08
What I think needs to be expressed in discussing these stories within the media is "how" these groups are becoming stronger and angrier by the day. I don't want excuses, but I think people really need to understand that this is way more than a few bad apples within the Muslim religion. This is a way of life for many people in the Middle East, terrified of attacks on a daily basis, something America will never truly understand, so pictures might not assist in it either. But I think the UN and whomever else needs to start discussing what the hell this world is doing to stop these types of attacks.
12/02/08
My friend is in the Teach for America program and is currently working in the 9th ward. Her children - ages 11 and 12 - have FACIAL TATTOOS, ARE PREGNANT and ARE DROPPING OUT TO JOIN GANGS and GET JOBS. As we sit by and watch that shit happen, how can we be expected to care about a few Indians across the world? (*sarcasm*)
12/02/08
LATOYA: And that mindset is part of the reason why it is hard to motivate people to take action and to protest.
But also, people feel powerless. More people have protested against this war than all the glorified hippies did for Vietnam, but here we are. This administration was able to get away with so much because people feel powerless. We fight for right and live decently, and in the end we still have nothing to show for it. Many of us cannot be called complacent. The news has been bought and is the loudspeaker for the corporate interest. And when a news story is without an agenda, the Times goes and writes about a mother not buying her designer jeans so that she can buy her kid a mountain of toys - and that's supposed to mirror the nation's current experience?
We have short memories because we wouldn't be able to get through each day without them.
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12/02/08
I still don't know how I feel about the violence-in-the-media debate. I do think Americans need to see more violence in general and have it not be a big deal, but I don't think we need to go overboard.
But the problem is really that as long as many Americans don't see violence on their streets, they will fetishize violence. The middle/ruling class here is pretty insular, and that's where the fetishization of violence comes from.
In Israel, for example, no one is shielded from violence since all our "wars" are 5 miles away, and everyone has to serve in the (very active) army. So violence isn't fetishized at all.
Part of these problems don't just stem from the media, but from the landscape of a country. Americans are allowed to live in a lala land where they don't see violence occurring. The problem isn't to let Americans see more violence on TV, but to see it in real life by integrating more parts of society. I'm not saying we need a draft, but maybe mandatory civil service?
Images on TV aren't everything.
12/02/08
Scary thoughts.
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Also, it's been pointed out that many of these picks are serious advocates of refocusing foreign policy towards diplomacy and away from sheer, unmitigated military buildup. About fucking time.
12/02/08
Like in the episode of House, when he was choosing a new team and he had to let that one guy go, even though the guy was really smart: it was because he kept thinking of the same things that House did.
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@J.D.Regent: Yes, he's always been a centrist, but I never thought Hilary was as hawkish as she claimed to be. I think she felt she had to be in order to not appear a weak woman. I mean, if she listened to Mark Penn, and it seems she did, this isn't a far-fetched belief.
12/02/08
I think they should also have some more flaxibility in their programs, so that those econ micro-credit PhD students and engineers can go work on a project for say, 1.5 years instead of the 2 years 3 months it is now; the amount of time required is really off-putting to a lot of more educated people,and older people, and encourages more applicants that "don't know what they want to do with their lives" making the experience more about the volunteer than the hosting country.
12/02/08
1) You cannot predict something like this. The terrorists will work on their own timetable. They will attack with little warning, in a place you are not anticipating, in a way you have not planned for.
2) Nuclear and biological material is too hard to work with. You'll note that terrorists seem to be doing just fine with bombs, guns, and flying planes into things, all things readily available and cheap.
3) This is the continuation of the Bush Administration's fear campaign. They've only got a little time left to spread a little more unfounded, abject fear before they go.
12/02/08
But you can still buy fertilizer and black powder at hardware stores. Part of the reason why no serious nation ever really challenged the conventions against chemical warfare is because it's not very good at warfare. Conventional explosive are much, much more effective at killing people.
A concentrated, coordinated effort by terrorists using crap they found at Lowe's could cripple Manhattan, and they wouldn't even have to commit suicide to do it.
12/02/08
12/02/08
There've been a handful of attacks with poison gas, and the Anthrax attacks, but these are notable for their extremely low body counts.
I don't know. This reminds me of the thing in Iraq where the Army was sent in to military bases to secure the (imaginary) WMDs--and consequently left all the fucking conventional explosives unsecured. Explosive which, subsequently, disappeared, and have been used in every IED in Iraq ever since.
12/02/08
I dunno. I am just as frightened for a bunch of sickos with a lot of ammo & guns blasting away at citizens. Wait, didn't that just happpen?
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Excessive power is unnecessary when you've got precision. That's why nuclear weapons were retarded in the first place.
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The fact is, exacting calculation is far more detrimental than just blowing something to smithereens for miles.
Nuclear weapons are not about actual war. It's about threatening people and creating a boogeyman. The fact that everyone continues to freak out about it is proof it still works.
12/02/08
I take it seriously enough to think that someone will probably want to, maybe, walk into a building & blow everyone way. And maybe coordinate that with several cities, and shoot all those people, too.
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Too bad you make solid sense.
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12/02/08
"A game of one-upmanship between commenters on the Jezebel.com website today spiralled out of control, ending with both commenters being apprehended by the CIA as they were in the process of coordinating massive terrorist attacks, simply to prove points made in what started as an innocent internet debate.
It is believed that Godwin's Law was not invoked this time."
12/02/08
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That's what I mean by how we've forgotten how to do things. We add all these pre-conditions onto our aid now (you can have money for birth control, but only if you don't talk about abortion!) and force poor countries into very tight spots. They need something and we have them over a barrel -- do it our way or you get nothing. And this inevitably leads to corruption and graft, and resources being squandered or diverted.
This can't be the way it works. We have to step up, to give with open hands and open hearts. But we can't just keep blindly throwing money at countries and expecting them to make things work. If there's going to be a precondition on our aid, let it be that they have to let our people come in to help them set up their systems of agriculture, trade, health, etc., and they have to let us teach them what we can. And let's not go in there thinking we can whip their problems in a week -- if we go in, we must go in with open minds, see the picture as they see it, and honor their traditions. We have to learn to work together, if there is going to be true change.
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[www.historyisaweapon.com]
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Microfinance can be very effective. The idea of having a group of people being responsible for each other sounds very foreign to us here in the US, but is very normal in the rest of the world, one reason similar microfinance type programs do NOT work here in the heart of capitalism. In Haiti, FONKOZE has started another program to help the poorest of the poor, people who borrow less than $20- US, just to get them off their knees and begin to stand. I am sure that some groups might feel coerced by their members, but that is also bad training and management on the part of the lender. World wide - there are many more successful programs. It is popular now to talk about microfinance, but not all programs are truly the original model.
Shout out to LaToya - love the smarts!
And as far as violent imagery goes, I think there are some Greek urns and cave paintings we could look at. The US Civil War was almost the first time - the Crimean War was actually the first - that people could see photographic evidence of dead and maimed bodies in wide circulation. These images did bring the horror home in a way not possible before but did it shorten the war? Think of the amazing literature we have, too, "The Red Badge of Courage, "Johnny Got His Gun" "All Quiet on the Western Front" and scores of others. Yet, we still kill each other.
12/02/08
12/02/08
Using kids to kill people has been common in some of these terrorist attacks. Meanwhile they and the suicide killers are sent to be killed while the true assholes hide in their comfy houses.
12/02/08
Ps. Hey Latoya!
12/02/08
Sigh. I am sending cosmic hugs to minisparks.
ps don't drink that Starbucks crap! That stuff gives me a headache & ruins my stomach. blurg.
12/02/08
I hate Sbucks. But there it is.
12/02/08
I get the willies if I drink one of their "drinks". Straight up crazies.
12/02/08
I mean, honour and dignity are great, but there's no honour or dignity in being unable to feed yourself or your family either.
12/02/08
But - maybe try this? Maybe microcredit seems strange when your home country is such a fucking mess itself?
12/02/08
12/02/08
It seems that all Latoya seems to be asking for is some form of an LLC and the police force willing to protect a person's property from their business partners if the shit should hit the fan.
The reason Kiva is as cheap to run as it is, is because there are no labour protections. Start slowly building some in and the prices for starting them might rise, but not considerably given the deals we already get on them.
That seems to be all Latoya was criticizing. Individual protection.
12/02/08
I mean, I know microcredit isn't great, but at least it's doing something right now.
12/02/08
It's not a perfect system, and Latoya was just pointing out that there are issues which needs addressing.
Maybe there should be a Better Business Bureau for micro-finance organizations. The ones with the best track record for all the participants' well-being rising near the top.
Maybe there is one. I don't know much about it, just taking what Latoya and Megan said in and processing it.
12/02/08
Although, Megan really pointed out something intense. If everything is fucked up, which is clearly is, and when we try to fix it & nothing changes? Well then, everyone gives up.
I work as an enviro. I cannot tell you how hard it is to go out into communities & try to rally them to fight Icky Company X because they are dumping shit/toxins/runoff into their water supply, etc... The general consensus is, 'well, we did that. No one listened.' OR 'We fought, but nothing happened. We did all this work & they still fucked us over.'
I feel shattered.
12/02/08
If my amazing activist peers give up and join corporate America instead of changing it, I'll be so shattered.
12/02/08
Granted, I have only been out of college three years, but my activist friends have either been in the Peace Corps, JVC, Teach for America, or are social workers. If we have had to work in corporate america or other random jobs, we volunteer on the weekends or join protests or read up on events in order to stay informed.
My grandfather says this Churchill quote, "If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart; if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain." I am determined to prove him wrong.
12/02/08
And even the shelf life, so to speak, of the American victim was short. I know the New York tabloid papers aren't where I should look for news coverage but enough people do look there that it bothers me how all they're covering right now is Plaxico Burress accidentally shooting himself in the thigh, rather than focus on the scores who were intentionally shot less than a week ago.
12/02/08
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"Thousands of people were killed in country XYTZ today, and TWO of them WERE AMERICANS. This is such a tragedy for AMERICA and the family of the dead. Stay with us now as we interview people that went to highschool with the victims."
12/02/08
Otherwise, I absolutely agree with you. Jon Stewart actually pointed that out on the Daily Show last night, that the tabloids are covering Plaxico's self-shooting rather than Mumbai. Actually, the Daily Show last night had a great segment with John Oliver about how exceedingly stupid terrorism is if you parse it out. "We hate and kill everything you stand for. Join us."
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@CollegeBookworm: My bad, I gathered the wrong impression from the articles I read. I totally did not see Jon Stewart last night, but now I really wish I had.
And again I will harp on the local news coverage here: a bus driver was killed by a passenger in Brooklyn, and even that local brutal murder is getting less coverage than the damned football player. Blah, I really hate the world right now.
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Just thinking about happen open 'warfare' around me makes my hair stand on ends. I which we civilians had the means to defend ourselves from these fucking assholes- but I guess that kevlar vests aren't cheap and would be totally unfashionable.
12/02/08
Violence only matters when AMERICANS get killed - and then we show tears.
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Part of my soul died when I did that.
12/02/08
I think it goes deeper than that. We aren't engaged because it's not happening here. These people are "over there." We threw money at them, they couldn't make it work. More's the pity, but we have our own problems.
Mind you, it is happening here. People are shot and killed every day in this country. People starve every day in this country. But that doesn't make the news, because we don't want to hear it. We want that to be somebody else's problem. We want to believe we are good people because we gave Africa money, and hey, why should we be held accountable if they couldn't handle it?
Like every problem here or abroad, money is not the solution. It comes down to education. It is not enough to send money or bags of food to Africa -- we need to send our best and brightest to help them utilize their resources better. We need to show the world how to do it better. The problem is: we've forgotten how. Remember the Marshall Plan? The Peace Corps? We need more of those and less of the "war on terror."
12/02/08
That said, shouldn't the lowest common denominator include scores of horrific photos?
I mean, that's why yellow journalism worked so damned well.
12/02/08
Thank you. It is happening here and it disgusts me that people miss that. Ever been to Browning, MT? East St. Louis? People still die of TB in inner city Boston. TB! This disease is curable! Of course I'm not saying that we are just as bad as a developing nation, but there is bad shit here too that nobody cares about. It disgusts me.
I remember Obama saying something about the encouraging our young people to do service abroad. Not charity -- service. Assisting. Educating. Helping. People can rise out of poverty with dignity intact.
Maybe then our best and brightest will come home with a new awareness in their eyes and work to make their local communities better because it does happen here too.
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