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Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue

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momentsofabsurdity
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
I'm confused? A size 8 doesn't fit into mainstream denim lines?

I'm probably an 7/8 and I fit fine in mainstream lines! Does she mean high fashion?
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momentsofabsurdity
06/18/09

@momentsofabsurdity: Standard disclaimer: I didn't mean to say I was healthy and anyone else was unhealthy. I was just pointing out that I wear a 7/8 (though with jeans sizing, I really have no idea -- I've worn a 2 and a 12 and both fit still) and mainstream denim fits it just fine. So does high fashion, come to think of it. I have True Religions that fit okay, and some Rock and Republics that are fine.
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Cassandra Says
06/18/09

@momentsofabsurdity: I said this above already but I think it's a shape thing. An 8 or a 10, maybe even a 12, who're proportionally narrow of hip and small of ass typically won't have much problem finding premium denim to fit. A woman who's more pear shaped, all kinds of problems finding jeans that fit, at any size.
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momentsofabsurdity
06/18/09

@Cassandra Says: That's true. I've got some junk in my trunk, but I'm sure if I had a bigger butt I'd be harder to fit. My body is overall proportional which makes clothes pretty easy to find, but you're right - a larger butt/hips/thighs (but not altogether) would make things much more difficult to fit.
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londoner
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Is that lady in jeans in the middle photo above really what fashion is calling plus-size nowadays? Oh. my. god.
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Pizza!Pizza!Pizza!
06/18/09

@londoner: Yeah, that's really troubling. Put Kate Moss in badly-cut, spandex-free jeans and that's how she'll look. Not cool.
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FontWhore (the Great Nubling Hope)
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
I have come to the conclusion that there needs to be a revolution in sizing.

A lot of women have trouble because your waist is a 10 but your butt is a 14, or whatever. That's assuming you can find clothes you like in your size, of course. And THEN the sizes don't mean anything anyone, being as they are subject to creative inflation.

Why can't women's clothing be sized like men's? With measurements instead of arbitrary numbers. And to further improve it, clothes could come in different sizes in various "zones," like, pants would have butt and thigh measurements as well as waist and length.

I have this fantasy of a store where I could get clothing customized to fit my short legs, small but long waist, etc etc. And since I can't afford a tailor,a fantasy it will remain.
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MilointheMeadow
06/18/09

@FontWhore (sans nublings): OH MY GOD SERIOUSLY. Men's sizing makes WAY more sense! Sorry about all the caps but I've been thinking this for years.
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Norton
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Has everyone forgotten about applebottom jeans???!!!?

I actually haven't really seen them, I just love the name.
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momentsofabsurdity
06/18/09

@Norton: You have you wear them with the boots with the fur.
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tscheese
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
"I've noticed lately that they are trying to make big sizes more into style," said Kathy Salinas, as she considered a zebra-striped Piper & Blue tunic

Here's another issue I have:

It seems like there have ALWAYS been plus-sized zebra-striped, or sequined, or spangled, or absurdly embroidered, or OMG CABBAGE-SIZED FLORAL PRINT-printed tunics. Some days it seems like that's all you can get at damn Lane Bryant or whatever.

However, the longer, tunic-like length is "in" currently, as well as empire waists, and forgiving knit garments, and maxi dresses.

Now, I don't love it; I like a more structured, skimming look. But I wonder if the blousy, elongated, figure-concealing juniors/misses styles are simply translating themselves into the stuff that plus sizes have ALWAYS had to endure--I wonder if that's why there's a sudden focus on "OH IT IS SO EASY* TO GET TRENDY PLUS SIZES NOW LOL".

I mean, a tunic that's meant to be oversized can fit a lot of different shapes and sizes. A stretchy knit dress can hang loosely on a small model and be more fitted on a larger model. Both garments will technically "fit" a range of sizes--which means that designers and manufacturers can throw size tags at the garments, sure, but they don't have to carefully look at rises, inseams, hems, or positioning of arm holes. It's not like the really unforgiving microfiber/midriff/ultra low rise stuff from late last decade.

It would really irk me if there was such a big brouhaha about OMG THERE ARE PLUS SIZES NOW LOL!!11 if it was just a flash in the pan based on today's hideous, figure-swallowing styles. I'm not sure if I'm making my point very well. It just seems like a cop-out for a designer to say "OKAY WE MADE THIS MASSIVE PONCHO FOR EVERYONE, THAT'S TOTALLY PLUS SIZE RITE!??! LOL".

*for extremely variable values of "easy"
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debo matar la zombi goldberry83
06/18/09

@tscheese: Yeah, it sort of smacks of "Ooh, ugly crap for all!" Sure, it may be somewhat easier to find something you can squeeze your tits into, but that doesn't mean it looks good, anymore than these bizarre styles look good on incredibly skinny people. Blargh.
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Aesop's Foibles. YES.
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Whenever this discussion comes up, I'm reminded of a Jennifer Weiner book in which the main character goes to "fat class", as she puts it. She's describing the outfit of another woman who's attending the class, and it goes something like, "beautiful, yes, and probably expensive, but playclothes. As if designers don't realize that fat women need business suits or dresses that fit etc." Not a quote there because I don't remember her exact words, but that description really seemed apt. I've noticed this same thing. And what bothers me most when I think about this issue is that, yeah, places like Lane Bryant do have nice clothes that fit some people really well, but...what if a woman wanted to drop two hundred bucks on a pair of COH or Sevens or Habituals? She, um, can't. Because they don't come in her size. So I guess my point is, high-end designers enjoy making money, right? And money is money no matter who is spending it, right? So given the fact that not everyone is a size whatever, but almost everyone would like wearing expensive, weel-made shit at some point or another, then why exclude? I'm no mogul or anything, but that seems like bad business. Doesn't it? Strictly from a businessy, bottom-line point of view? Or am I just being silly?

Blargh. People need to remove their heads from their asses. That's all I got.
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Eric Northman is mine
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
The fat friend? Maybe Kate hangs out with her because she's a great musician and is fun to be around or they share similar interests and not that she's some sort of 'token chubby'. I don't know that i'm jaded enough to believe that people pick their friends based on their size/because it's trend. Sheesh!
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Lucille van Pelt
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Next they're going to start having auditions before you can buy certain clothing lines. Head shots required! No entry to the store without a declaration of your "hotness" by 3 employees of the designer.
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
06/18/09

@Lucille van Pelt: I thought that was American Apparel.
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kaiwhakamarie
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Know what irks me? I worked part-time at Rainbow CLothing Stores a few months back, and their 'plus size' line was a joke. All their clothing sizes run small, so what they deemed a size 16 was in actuality a 12. They stopped their sizes at 20 (actually a 16) so many women couldn't even find something to fit them. Not only that, but they were the UGLIEST clothes you can possibly imagine. The junior clothes the store put out were adorable, trendy and completely affordable - tons of items on clearance and otherwise, under $10 most of the time.

The plus sized stuff? All the shirts looked like muu muus or either had some heinous, childish, 80s type screen printing on it. They were cheaply made, and came in some of the tackiest colors imaginable. If the junior shirts were in pretty shades of forest green, taupe and plum, the 'plus size' versions would be in neon pink, olive green and poo-brown. It was impossible to find accessories to go with them. The pants were even worse. Boot cut ONLY, and they were all high-rise jeans that wouldn't flatter anyone. To add insult to injury all the plus-size clothes were always at least five bucks more expensive than the 'junior' equivalent and were never put on clearance.

Oh, and the 'plus sized' mannequin was a size 8. We had to use clothes pins to keep the clothes on her, and they still fell off. Gah.
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Penny
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Alright, my poor, skinny, unfit ass is checking out of this conversation. I am beginning to lose hope in womankind.
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bluebears
06/18/09

@Penny: These threads always get fucking ridiculous. I have given up.
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/18/09

@bluebears: I'm trying to wield the sledgehammer today, but yeah, it's kind of futile. There should be some sort of disclaimer attached to these kinds of articles. I'll write it.

WARNING: The following kinds of comments will be immediately disemvoweled:

1) Mention of own size and how HARD it is for you too
2) "I'm sorry, but X body type is unhealthy"
3) "Finally, someone celebrating REAL women"
4) Comments on the body type discussed, when the article is actually about fashion
5) Any conversions of US/UK sizes, particularly related to Marilyn Monroe
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slowpoke.r
06/18/09

@PreposterousHypothesis: That is perfect. I wish they would post that every time.

But it would mean a TON of work for Hortense...
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
06/18/09

@slowpoke.r: Look upthread - she seems to be doing all right so far.
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slowpoke.r
06/18/09

@Rooo sez BISH PLZ: Yeah, just noticed! She is on fire.
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tunamelt
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
I kind of like this.

But I'd prefer to see a line of clothing for people who are boobilicious. I'm tired of looking at rack after rack of maxi dresses.
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tomatoheart
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
I would like to recommend the awesome plus size premium denim line SVOBODA. If you are size 12+ and haven't tried these jeans on, I HIGHLY recommend them

[svobodastyle.com]
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dissolver
06/18/09

@tomatoheart: THEY EVEN COME IN TALL. Why am I poor? Augh! Those look awesome!
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tomatoheart
06/18/09

@dissolver: They are amazing. I sometimes find them on sale at Nordstrom Rack if that helps.
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ZemarSea Urchin
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
As a women's retail worker I've got a secret for you ladies: The clothes don't fit anybodies body. Shhhh...they don't want you to know. Now if you wanna talk about change I'd like to see women's stores become more like men's where there is a tailor on hand. Thats progress.
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gangey
06/18/09

@ZemarSea Urchin: Agreed.

(And it took me nearly 25 years to realize that clothes often don't even fit the models or mannequins displaying them and that pins and clips are used to make things look good so you will buy them.)
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Rooo sez BISH PLZ
06/18/09

@ZemarSea Urchin: Aha. I knew it.
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applejuice
06/18/09

@ZemarSea Urchin: I was once in freakin' Eddie Bauer and the lady in the dressing room told me that their petite size pants fit pretty much no one in the crotch. She told me to just buy a pair in normal length and the crotch length would be better and I could just get the leg length altered.

*It was like some kind of epiphany*
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Sassafras
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
W wr t shw lst nght nd cldn't blv hw lrg th mjrty f th grls wr. 'm tlkng lrgr n th sns f lt f xcss bdy ft rnd th stmch nd hp r. 'd gss tht thy wr ll btwn th gs f 17-25. 'm bttng wtnssd th ldr nd f th chldhd bsty spctrm. 'm by n mns Sknny Mnny hwvr, s shrt prsn, wh's nvr dtd, brly xrcss nd hs tw kds ndr th g f fr thy cmprd t m thy wr xtrmly t f shp.
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Maritsa
06/18/09

@Sassafras: How is this comment relevant to the discussion at hand?
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/18/09

@Sassafras: Think about what you wrote, and try to figure how it relates to the article at hand. Were they all complaining about how it was difficult to find fun, stylish clothes? Probably not. They were at a show.

This article isn't about childhood obesity, and I find this kind of judgmental attitude really harmful. Honestly, this kind of attitude is probably what prevents fashion designers from designing for girls like these, because they don't want their precious artistry associated with these nascent fatties* that you're condemning for really no discernable reason.

*Sarcasm, y'all.
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tscheese
06/18/09

@Sassafras: I'm not going to give you a range of sizes, but I'm not out of shape and those are some numbers that look familiar to me in the ol' clothing aisle. I don't want to make this into a discussion of weight in relation to health; I honestly feel that my health, ability to do cardio, etc isn't really relevant here. All I'm saying is to tread very carefully.

I know you probably didn't mean to give offense, but directly comparing yourself to someone, estimating their size, then saying they're more out of shape than you is a very sensitive area in a thread about how hard it is to find decent clothes in plus sizes.
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Sassafras
06/18/09

@tscheese: Re: All responses. Feel free to judge my comments. I respect your sensitivity and my intent is not to argue. My comments were a result of my observation of a large group of individuals. When discussing clothing/sizing etc. there's always a Marylin Monroe comment (as sent in the post)referencing to how large she was back then however bodies were differently shaped backed then. My observation points out how the "norm" continues to change. You know what? I was surprised. I spent much of my formative years surrounded by girls who starved themselves to look like all their friends. Why didn't I do that? I considered it to be too much trouble. I didn't say that the girls I that I saw were unhealthy. Only that their shapes/body types were different than that of what I remember at that age.
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/18/09

@Sassafras: Eh, I'd beg to differ. You say "excess body fat," "older end of childhood obesity spectrum," and "compared to me were extremely out of shape." If that isn't implying they're unhealthy, I don't know what is.

Also, the point of the article is about fashion for plus-sized girls, not about in-trend body types. And I have no idea what you mean about bodies being differently shaped back then. If you mean the "ideal" figure, then yes, but women have always been shaped differently.

Just consider how one of those girls would feel if they read that comment, and you can see how it's judgmental and harmful.
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tscheese
06/18/09

@Sassafras: Look, I said you probably didn't mean to be offensive; I'm just saying that "a lot of excess body fat around the stomach and hip area" and "extremely out of shape" are some pretty sensitizing things to see in a thread that is mostly peopled by folks who are well aware of their bodies and their sizes and their physical capabilities.

If you wanted to make a comment like that make sense in the context of the thread, it might have been better if you mentioned why you observed this. Even if you meant no offense, surely you can see how a comment like yours could have been interpreted as such.

Something like, "I've noticed more girls lately who need plus sizes; I wonder where they shop" would have fit better into the context of the thread and not come off like "I saw some people who were heavier than I, and I NEVER exercise, they had FAT on them."
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PreposterousHypothesis
06/18/09

@tscheese: I think our mutual gentle berating caused the vowels to flee.
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Maritsa
06/18/09

@PreposterousHypothesis: What really happened is that the vowels realized they made those words look fat and unhealthy, so they ran away shame-faced.
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kithkin
06/18/09

@Maritsa: I'd say O's definitely carry too much weight in the stomach and hip area.
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Maritsa
06/18/09

@kithkin: Totally! They're gross. u has a bubble butt, e is top heavy, and don't even get me started on a - she is SO out of shape.

i is the only one who's not a total fattie. (That skinny bitch, I bet she starves herself and exercises for hours.)
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CherriSpryte
06/18/09

In reply to Mainstream Media Addresses Plus-Size Fashion Issue
Um, on a lighter note, could Urban Outfitters/Anthropologie PLEASE start a plus line? I would spend all my monies on it.
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tomatoheart
06/18/09

@CherriSpryte: seriously. I don't remember if I already mentioned it to you, but you might enjoy eShakti, which has lots of Anthropologie-esque clothes that come in a wide range of sizes ANd they do custom orders

[www.eshakti.com]
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