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"The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
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"What's Your Stance On Making Out With A Coworker?"

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denna
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
I'm finishing up a teacher prep program, and I have no idea what to do once I get a job in the public schools. I If anyone has any advice or resources to point me toward regarding lesbian public school teachers, I'd be ever so grateful.
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BytheSea
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
I don't come out at work, because women are evil and I don't want to be bullied out of a job. The kind of bullying men get is illegal and persecutable in court, not to mention socially unacceptable. But as a woman, I can still have the entire staff turn on me, start talking shit about me tot he boss, and interpret everything I say or do as deviant or inappropriate. Like, my flats aren't because I work on my feet but because I'm gay and therefore an unnatural woman; I was brusque with a kid not because the kid was out of line but because lesbians prey on children. If you think the fight is over, you're missing the point.
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PilgrimSoul
11/05/08

@BytheSea: I don't understand why you perceive the hostility as solely perpetrated by women?
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brendastarlet is on it
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
With the gay males, some camouflage it, and some are so out that it's impossible to notice. The lezzies that I work with are very low key: I know they're lezzies because they've told me, but they don't discuss it in the office.

The straight men seem to be obtuse, to be honest -- I think they just assume they're single women unless told otherwise.
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Roots500
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
I wasn't out at my old job and it sucked becasue I felt like I was lying all the time, especially when co-workers asked me what I did on the weekends, if I had a boyfriend etc. It was lying by omission but lying nonetheless.

When I changed jobs I decided to just screw it and be open from the beginning at my new job. It's be awesome. I completely agree that it's empowering!
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Gundam_Halo
11/05/08

@Roots500: So are you disagreeing with what this thread is asserting?
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@Gundam_Halo: I think she is agreeing with the assertion that if you are secure with your sexuality, it can actually benefit your work and your work relationships.
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KittenFluff
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
Also, I love the Torres/Hahn storyline on Grey's.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@KittenFluff: You know they killed it and fired Brooke Smith right?
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exelizabeth
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
Suze Orman!

(Sorry, I know this isn't a call to list off all the lesbian public figures as if that disproves this article, I just love her that's all).
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KittenFluff
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
My boss is gay and has a long-term partner but pretends to be straight even though everyone we work with knows her partner and they own property together. Meanwhile almost every guy in my company is gay and they don't seem to hide it. I mean, some choose not to mention their partners, but I doubt they ever make comments about picking up chicks.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@KittenFluff: What industry are you in?
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KittenFluff
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: Arts nonprofit.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@KittenFluff: @KittenFluff: Ah. Gotcha.
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RainbowBrite
11/06/08

@KittenFluff: Weird! I was in the exact same situation at my old job! I found out inadvertently that a boss was in a committed relationship with another woman, and even though I work in design and there were lots of gay men, she never came out. I think it has something to do with the ball-busting, man-hating lesbian stereotype.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
I find it more difficult to say that I am bisexual than to say that I am a lesbian. People don't understand bisexuality and many times it confuses them. Wait, you're dating a guy? But wasn't the last person you were dating a girl? Yes, that's what bisexual means.

It's also something that I very rarely state publicly at work. It's seen as a kind of "quasi-gay" and since it isn't understood it isn't something that I like to advertise. I feel like being young, people already don't take me seriously, so if I was to come out as bisexual, I would seem like that "crazy young liberal/progressive" girl.
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Cerridwen
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: I think there are a whole other set of obstacles for coming out as bisexual. Many people don't seem to accept it as a legitimate identity, like homosexuality, and bisexual people can find themselves rejected by two communities (straight and gay). And bisexual women especially tend to have their sexuality trivialized as something they do when drunk to impress men. It's another example of how hard it is for people not to separate people into rigid dichotomies.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@Cerridwen: Oh, yeah, it's totally frustrating. I've recently been writing pieces exploring the many aspects of bisexuality and being bisexual in our society and it has been really cathartic for me to write it out and get all my frustration out of my system.

You definitely are ostracized by two communities. And if you are dating a girl, you almost have to hang out almost exclusively in the lesbian bars and clubs and if you are dating a guy, you have to hang out in the straight bars and clubs. Society totally defines you by your partner. It is very frustrating.
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tomatoheart
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: god i *so* agree with everything you've said here.

I usually just try to avoid talking about my sexuality and dating practices at work, but it doesn't help that my boss is always trying to set me up with folks or that i've had an ex (boyfriend) visit me (so she now assumes I'm hetero)
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Ascendo_tuum
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: Amen to all of that. 'Bisexual' in every place I've ever worked just seems to mean 'straight girl who pretends to like women to turn guys on'.
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inabook
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: And this is why my public identity is straight. I like guys and girls, but I like guys a little more, and its just easier to find them and date them so... straight it is! Because my friends who are super accepting of gay people just do not get bi people. And... its weak of me, maybe, but I just can't deal with explaining it all, especially since I currently have a boyfriend.

but its still pretty depressing that I don't show this face of myself to my friends.
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Penny
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
And, as always, tolerance about these things varies by industry.
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Penny
11/05/08

In reply to "The Double-Glazed Ceiling:" Is It Harder For Women To Come Out At Work?
I feel like lesbianism is often either fetishized or not taken as "seriously." More so than with gay males, at least.
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Gundam_Halo
11/05/08

@Archetype: I wouldn't say it isn't taken as seriously, more like it isn't initially looked upon with as much disgust as a gay male would be.
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Penny
11/05/08

@Gundam_Halo: I was struggling for the right words.....(bottle of wine).....Let's just say that a lesbian would likely hear, "are you SURE you're a lesbian?" more than a gay dude.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@Archetype: It's only okay to be a lesbian if you are a "hot" lesbian. Otherwise it's gross.

I am bisexual and tend to be attracted to butch women. I pointed out a woman that I thought was hot to a guy I was seeing and he looked at me, horrified, and said, "The lesbian?!" Yes. "Ew!" I had totally shattered his "hot lesbian" fantasy that he had of me in his head, and he was uncomfortable with my sexuality for the rest of our relationship.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@Archetype: I only hear that if I am out with a girl who looks just as femme as I do. We look like two "straight" girls out together, and it's happened several times where guys will come up and be like, "Are you sure you guys don't want to come home with me? Are you sure you really like girls? You don't LOOK like you like girls."
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: So where I was going with that was more along the lines of, I think that only the more femme looking lesbians get the "are you SURE you're a lesbian?" thing. At least more so than butcher looking women do.
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Penny
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: Yeah....I feel like there are so many, say, story-lines around lesbianism. The Hot Lesbians, The Fake Bar Lesbians, The Porn Lesbians, The Lipstick Lesbians, The Butch Lesbians.

Then, it just comes down to the fact that women are objectified more often than men. Of course, only if they're hot, as you said :-)
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Penny
11/05/08

@TheVaginaWig: Totally.
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Cerridwen
11/05/08

@Archetype: Or "You mean you made out with your best friend while drunk at the bar, right?"
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@Cerridwen: Or when guys think that you are kissing your date/girlfriend specifically to turn them on and they proceed to hit on me mercilessly trying to get a threesome out of it.
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BytheSea
11/05/08

@Gundam_Halo: Uh, no. Women are just as disgusted with lesbians as men are with gay men.
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VaginaWig is A Merkin
11/05/08

@BytheSea: When I came out to my mom, she was SO GROSSED OUT by the fact that I had been "down there" on a woman it was almost funny. She kept asking, "So you've really *done that* with a woman? Really? Ew." She couldn't get past that part of it.
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exelizabeth
11/05/08

@BytheSea: Your comment really stopped me in my tracks for a minute before I realized you were relating your experience, rather than stating how you feel.

Although I would like to go on record as a straight woman who is not disgusted (or otherwise bothered) by lesbians. I am waaaay more disgusted by straight women who date douchebags. And by douchebags in general. Any sex they have is just wrong.
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LaMorena
11/05/08

@Archetype: Yes! A girl at my office has come out to a few of us but is having a hard time overall b/c all of her friends are telling her that it's "just a phase." So insulting. Agree that gay men (while facing their own challenges) don't often hear that one.
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